Z-TUFF

hugofeynman said:
You are absolutely correct. Ztuff is way tougher than Vanadis 4 extra, only S7 and even more extreme steels (k600, 4140, 4340, Maraging, Aermet, ...) are tougher than Ztuff.
Click to expand...

Here is something I posted some time back for comparison:

Here is my analysis of new and old INFI. Carbon content is 0.5- 0.6 and Nitrogen is at 0.1%. Neither show up on these tests. The newer INFI is closer to Z-tuff than old INFI although all three are different. I also tested an ASHBM and it is the same as the FBM below. So the formula has not changed.

20151011_091806.jpg



The above shows modern INFI as
C.......0.6%
Cr.....7.6%
Mo....1.5%
V.......0.6%
Mn....0.5%

Z-tuff
C....0.70%
Cr...7.50%
Mo...2.00%
V....1.00%
Ni....1.50%

So the difference between the two is Mn and Ni. And of course slightly different quantities of the other elements. The other element in INFI is Nitrogen but It cannot be detected by the method I used. So I have no idea if it is still part of the new INFI. I would assume so since it was a big deal in the original INFI.
 
Cobalt said:
Here is something I posted some time back for comparison:

Here is my analysis of new and old INFI. Carbon content is 0.5- 0.6 and Nitrogen is at 0.1%. Neither show up on these tests. The newer INFI is closer to Z-tuff than old INFI although all three are different. I also tested an ASHBM and it is the same as the FBM below. So the formula has not changed.

20151011_091806.jpg



The above shows modern INFI as
C.......0.6%
Cr.....7.6%
Mo....1.5%
V.......0.6%
Mn....0.5%

Z-tuff
C....0.70%
Cr...7.50%
Mo...2.00%
V....1.00%
Ni....1.50%

So the difference between the two is Mn and Ni. And of course slightly different quantities of the other elements. The other element in INFI is Nitrogen but It cannot be detected by the method I used. So I have no idea if it is still part of the new INFI. I would assume so since it was a big deal in the original INFI.
Click to expand...

Nitrogen can have dramatic effects on steel. I’ve made a few blades in z-finit, and vanax, and they perform better than I expected.
 
Cobalt said:
Here is something I posted some time back for comparison:

Here is my analysis of new and old INFI. Carbon content is 0.5- 0.6 and Nitrogen is at 0.1%. Neither show up on these tests. The newer INFI is closer to Z-tuff than old INFI although all three are different. I also tested an ASHBM and it is the same as the FBM below. So the formula has not changed.

20151011_091806.jpg



The above shows modern INFI as
C.......0.6%
Cr.....7.6%
Mo....1.5%
V.......0.6%
Mn....0.5%

Z-tuff
C....0.70%
Cr...7.50%
Mo...2.00%
V....1.00%
Ni....1.50%

So the difference between the two is Mn and Ni. And of course slightly different quantities of the other elements. The other element in INFI is Nitrogen but It cannot be detected by the method I used. So I have no idea if it is still part of the new INFI. I would assume so since it was a big deal in the original INFI.
Click to expand...

They are pretty close, but, as we both know, much more important than the steel itself is the grain orientation (knife blank cut parallel to the rolling direction of the steel, this way segregation lines will be better (segregation band structure is much better in the grain direction, like in wood) and the knife will be tougher), heat treatment and geometry. Infi it’s already a proven concept, ZTUFF may also be very good, let’s wait some makers start to use it more extensively.
 
Cobalt said:
Here is something I posted some time back for comparison:

Here is my analysis of new and old INFI. Carbon content is 0.5- 0.6 and Nitrogen is at 0.1%. Neither show up on these tests. The newer INFI is closer to Z-tuff than old INFI although all three are different. I also tested an ASHBM and it is the same as the FBM below. So the formula has not changed.

20151011_091806.jpg



The above shows modern INFI as
C.......0.6%
Cr.....7.6%
Mo....1.5%
V.......0.6%
Mn....0.5%

Z-tuff
C....0.70%
Cr...7.50%
Mo...2.00%
V....1.00%
Ni....1.50%

So the difference between the two is Mn and Ni. And of course slightly different quantities of the other elements. The other element in INFI is Nitrogen but It cannot be detected by the method I used. So I have no idea if it is still part of the new INFI. I would assume so since it was a big deal in the original INFI.
Click to expand...
It’s also pretty close to A8mod: http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=a8mod
 
I’ve tested one blade in ztuff to failure. I heat treated it, with cryo and low temp temper. 59-60 rc. I was extremely impressed by its toughness, best I’ve tested so far, quite a bit tougher than 3v! I made another knife to try as a hunting/skinning knife, and so far it’s been holding up really good. I have some further testing to do, and different heat treats I want to try. I think I can improve on the toughness quite a bit more!
 
I’m also wondering if the nickel, and cpm technology would make this a tougher alloy than A8. Maybe even s7.
 
rodriguez7 said:
I’ve tested one blade in ztuff to failure. I heat treated it, with cryo and low temp temper. 59-60 rc. I was extremely impressed by its toughness, best I’ve tested so far, quite a bit tougher than 3v! I made another knife to try as a hunting/skinning knife, and so far it’s been holding up really good. I have some further testing to do, and different heat treats I want to try. I think I can improve on the toughness quite a bit more![/QUO

Please send Larrin some coupons to test! We have to dethrone AEBL!
Click to expand...

Please send some coupons for Larrin to test! We need to dethrone Aebl, so we need the toughest possible carbon steels (with decent hardness) to do so!
 
Last edited:
Just to confirm. I have z-tuff donated by chuck at AKS to make coupons and a test knife out of. I’m going to doRc58,60, and 62 (low temper) and I’ll do Rc58 in high temper. This steel looks like an air hardening 15n20 with some vanadium in it. Z-tuff will be in the next batch with the M4, after I finish the V4e/4v samples in about to send off.
 
Larrin said:
The Z-Tuff datasheet shows it just below S7 for toughness.
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And those data are with ZTUFF being high temperature tempered (540C probably). If low tempered, I wonder if toughness will be on pair with S7, although S7 has less carbon, so, in theory, will always be tougher.
 
Willie71 said:
Just to confirm. I have z-tuff donated by chuck at AKS to make coupons and a test knife out of. I’m going to doRc58,60, and 62 (low temper) and I’ll do Rc58 in high temper. This steel looks like an air hardening 15n20 with some vanadium in it. Z-tuff will be in the next batch with the M4, after I finish the V4e/4v samples in about to send off.
Click to expand...

Try also 58hrc with deep cooling (or cryo) and low temper, Warren! Let’s test his toughness limits!:D
 
A.McPherson said:
Why? Isn’t the whole point of the testing to find the toughness of steel, not promote our favorite?
Science is supposed to be impartial...
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Yeah, sure, just kidding!:) My favorite steel isn’t even tested, because its optimal hardness (55) isn’t valued in the knife world, so more impartial than this is difficult.
 
Willie71 said:
Just to confirm. I have z-tuff donated by chuck at AKS to make coupons and a test knife out of. I’m going to doRc58,60, and 62 (low temper) and I’ll do Rc58 in high temper. This steel looks like an air hardening 15n20 with some vanadium in it. Z-tuff will be in the next batch with the M4, after I finish the V4e/4v samples in about to send off.
Click to expand...
Ztuff is proving to be one of my favorite steels! I’m thinking I’ll be sticking with ztuff, zwear, and aeb-l. Although v4e is awesome stuff!!!
 
rodriguez7 said:
Ztuff is proving to be one of my favorite steels! I’m thinking I’ll be sticking with ztuff, zwear, and aeb-l. Although v4e is awesome stuff!!!
Click to expand...

I’ve got a hunter friend who swears by 15n20 who will test a hunter and skinner in z-tuff for me. I’m going to order some more and make a few test blades. It would probably be great for a hatchet too.

I noticed Chuck got some more z-wear in stock. It’s thicker, so hopefully the thinner stock will come in soon too. I’m out of it.
 
Willie71 said:
I’ve got a hunter friend who swears by 15n20 who will test a hunter and skinner in z-tuff for me. I’m going to order some more and make a few test blades. It would probably be great for a hatchet too.

I noticed Chuck got some more z-wear in stock. It’s thicker, so hopefully the thinner stock will come in soon too. I’m out of it.
Click to expand...
I butchered 2 pigs last weekend, and the only knife I used was my ztuff blade, surprisingly it did very well! I also made an edc in it. So I’ll definitely be doing some cut tests.
 
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