Z-TUFF

But at 58, equal to A2 in abrasion resistance. That says to me a least, that it is a more suitable steel for cutting tools than S7. Perhaps more like an even tougher version of L6?
Larrin said:
The Z-Tuff datasheet shows it just below S7 for toughness.
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Is abrasion resistance desirable for swords?
 
It is used for some swords, but I suspect that price is an issue for most of us mere mortals. What would a 36 inch a 2 inch piece cost? $150? Plus, where do you get a piece long enough? As a matter of fact, where do folks like Miller Brothers get pieces long enough and/or wide enough for stuff like swords and hawks?
 
Larrin said:
Is abrasion resistance desirable for swords?
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No! S7 will be much better for a sword. Easy to grind, will blunt by slow wear and if the edge hits a rock by accident is much easier to repair. Ztuff will suffer same damage as S7, but would be much difficult to repair.
 
jdm61 said:
But at 58, equal to A2 in abrasion resistance. That says to me a least, that it is a more suitable steel for cutting tools than S7. Perhaps more like an even tougher version of L6?
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I would say so! A2 is no slouch for a hunting knife! Good steel
 
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Abrasion resistance ? Only if you do your sword fighting on the beach !

The interesting questions are what did sword fighters do with their swords other than normal sword fighting ? The cuirass has been used for cooking.. swords for shish kababs.
 
If you have a steel that is almost as tough as S7 but has the abrasion resistance of A2, why the hell would't you use it for a sword other than because the steel cost too much? Also, why would it be more difficult to "repair?" I have never heard anything about A2 being difficult to sharpen.
hugofeynman said:
No! S7 will be much better for a sword. Easy to grind, will blunt by slow wear and if the edge hits a rock by accident is much easier to repair. Ztuff will suffer same damage as S7, but would be much difficult to repair.
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hugofeynman said:
No! S7 will be much better for a sword. Easy to grind, will blunt by slow wear and if the edge hits a rock by accident is much easier to repair. Ztuff will suffer same damage as S7, but would be much difficult to repair.
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I’ve had a few hunters report they hit rocks and steel with z-wear, without damaging the edge. Not as much force as a sword swing, but still....

My katana was 1% carbon steel, hardened to Rc60. I never should have sold it.
 
jdm61 said:
It is used for some swords, but I suspect that price is an issue for most of us mere mortals. What would a 36 inch a 2 inch piece cost? $150? Plus, where do you get a piece long enough? As a matter of fact, where do folks like Miller Brothers get pieces long enough and/or wide enough for stuff like swords and hawks?
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Zwear is expensive enough.. there’s got to be some turning point you would think. I’d hate/love to see the price of a sheet
 
What I will say may be controversial, jdm61 jdm61 but I would not use a high wear resistant steel in big blades/swords (in small and medium knives, no problem!). Let me try to explain my point of view as was explained by one of the three guys I most respect in the knife world: in regards to knives and steels, here is the question which always has to be asked - how is the knife/sword failing in use? If you have a large (or very large) blade and it is blunting by slow wear in S7 (or 5160) type steels, then Z-Tuff could be of benefit, because of that extra wear resistance. However, if the edge is failing by isolated damage from occasional hard inclusions (dirt), so common when processing wood, then you just made the problem worse. The damage will still happen, no matter how much vanadium that steel has, and now it will be much harder to grind out/repair (at least, in the field).
 
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Kentucky said:
Zwear is expensive enough.. there’s got to be some turning point you would think. I’d hate/love to see the price of a sheet
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In addition to the steel price, heat treat is involved, requires cryo, and abrasives will cost you three times as much as traditional steels. I explain this to people when they see z-wear knives costing 2-3x as much as 52100 or W2. Once they have them in hand, they get it. EDCs are $250.00, and the price goes up from there.

However, looking at the charpy results, the toughness is damn impressive considering the wear resistance.
 
I just don't get this whole difficulty in sharpening thing. I use 1000-8000 grit synthetic water stones for everything from 1084 up to 3V and CruForge V. Stuff like this Z Tuff looks like it might have the toughness of A8M. L6 or even S7, but with the wear resistance and maybe even the fine edge stability of some steels that are much more suited to actually cutting tools than S7. Why would I use S7 which clearly is not an optimum blade steel if I had another better option?
hugofeynman said:
What I will say may be controversial, jdm61 jdm61 but I would not use a high wear resistant steel in big blades/swords (in small and medium knives, no problem!). Let me try to explain my point of view as was explained by one of the three guys I most respect in the knife world: in regards to knives and steels, here is the question which always has to be asked - how is the knife/sword failing in use? If you have a large (or very large) blade and it is blunting by slow wear in S7 (or 5160) type steels, then Z-Tuff could be of benefit, because of that extra wear resistance. However, if the edge is failing by isolated damage from occasional hard inclusions (dirt), so common when processing wood, then you just made the problem worse. The damage will still happen, no matter how much vanadium that steel has, and now it will be much harder to grind out/repair (at least, in the field).
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Willie71 said:
In addition to the steel price, heat treat is involved, requires cryo, and abrasives will cost you three times as much as traditional steels. I explain this to people when they see z-wear knives costing 2-3x as much as 52100 or W2. Once they have them in hand, they get it. EDCs are $250.00, and the price goes up from there.

However, looking at the charpy results, the toughness is damn impressive considering the wear resistance.
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Yea I bought zwear actually after a post you made a couple years ago when I talked to you about it. I’m able to heat treat it correctly and love the stuff but never really made it a regular offering. Mine never sees above a good scotch brite finish. I’d rather wipe a bobcats ass with bardwire than hand sand it..
Great stuff though and I really like it
 
Kentucky said:
Yea I bought zwear actually after a post you made a couple years ago when I talked to you about it. I’m able to heat treat it correctly and love the stuff but never really made it a regular offering. Mine never sees above a good scotch brite finish. I’d rather wipe a bobcats ass with bardwire than hand sand it..
Great stuff though and I really like it
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I do a 120x finish or scitchbrite. Not cost effective otherwise.
 
Kentucky Kentucky , can I use this as my sig? “I’d rather wipe a bobcats ass with bardwire than hand sand it.”

I sent a blade at Rc62 to another Canadian smith, and he said he loved the edge, but said it was impossible to satin finish by hand.
 
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jdm61 said:
I just don't get this whole difficulty in sharpening thing. I use 1000-8000 grit synthetic water stones for everything from 1084 up to 3V and CruForge V. Stuff like this Z Tuff looks like it might have the toughness of A8M. L6 or even S7, but with the wear resistance and maybe even the fine edge stability of some steels that are much more suited to actually cutting tools than S7. Why would I use S7 which clearly is not an optimum blade steel if I had another better option?
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I wasn’t impressed initially, until I saw the nickel content, and Larrin’s Article on cold weather toughness. People using knives in the Canadian Winter could benefit from this steel. I just talked to a cousin of mine, who is a farmer who broke three commercial blades this year farming, and he will test a z-tuff blade this year coming up. I already cut it out, and will heat treat it toRc59/60 in the next couple days.
 
jdm61 said:
I just don't get this whole difficulty in sharpening thing. I use 1000-8000 grit synthetic water stones for everything from 1084 up to 3V and CruForge V. Stuff like this Z Tuff looks like it might have the toughness of A8M. L6 or even S7, but with the wear resistance and maybe even the fine edge stability of some steels that are much more suited to actually cutting tools than S7. Why would I use S7 which clearly is not an optimum blade steel if I had another better option?
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May I ask how do you use your choppers, jdm61? Your really big blades? It’s for processing wood, correct? For hitting the wood really hard, correct? Or is it to cut cardboard, paper sheets or sisal rope? I don’t think so. So, if the answer is wood, wood is full of hard inclusions (dirt), this dirt will damage your big blades no matter what the steel used, S7 and ZTUFF will blunt probably at the same time, vanadium will not help here, so if Ztuff will take twice the time to sharpen, do you think it’s an improvement over S7? You’re probably very good sharpening, but even you will notice that is not so easy sharpen Ztuff as is S7.

S7, as 5160, L6 and others are absolutely perfect for big blades, for the reasons I’ve given (hard impact tools, vanadium doesn’t help and high vanadium blades will probably suffer from microchipping, (those wood inclusions are so hard that will cause carbide tear out) while the others will dent or roll, in extreme cases). So I’ll stick with the good Ol proven steels for really big blades and would give Ztuff a try in a medium blade.
 
Willie71 said:
I wasn’t impressed initially, until I saw the nickel content, and Larrin’s Article on cold weather toughness. People using knives in the Canadian Winter could benefit from this steel. I just talked to a cousin of mine, who is a farmer who broke three commercial blades this year farming, and he will test a z-tuff blade this year coming up. I already cut it out, and will heat treat it toRc59/60 in the next couple days.
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Hey, Warren, wanna share those blades brands? If not in open forum (I also don’t like to trash other peoples work), tell me by pm, please!:)
 
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