ZDP-189 is it any good?

ashtxsniper

ashtxsniper

Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Messages
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Hey guys I just ordered 3 PE Spyderco Endura 4's with zdp-189 blades and 2 with vg-10 blades. Is this stuff as good as they claim? I have been very happy with my s30v Spyderco's and the zdp-189 blades are supposed to be way better. Those that have knives with zdp-189 blades or have tested this steel please leave me your feedback.
 
I got the ZDP-189 Caly 3 with the CF handles. It was my first spyderco and all I can say is WOW! I have had the knife for about a month and a half and to maintain shaving sharp all I have done was 5 passes per side on the corner of the white Sharpmaker rods, and some stroping on my jeans. My knife sees tape cardboard small bits of wood or rope and the ocasional piece of nylon webbing.
 
Lets just say I've had my Spyderco calypso Jr in zdp-189 for a few months, and have yet to sharpen it.

It's still scary sharp, and cuts like a beast.
 
For what it's worth... I've found that ZDP-189 is superior for cutting synthetic type materials (plastics, nylon, etc.) compared to some of the other stainless steel alloys, but is comparatively inferior in cutting natural materials (fibrous textiles, groundwood & kraft papers, cotton, flax, etc.). My conclusion is that the ZDP-189 outperforms other steels when cutting materials with more uniform structures.

I find it more difficult to create and maintain a uniform cutting edge along the entire length of the edge for blades formed using ZDP-189. That, however, may be due to my sharpening technique rather than to anything inherent in the edge steel.
 
GoodGuy said:
For what it's worth... I've found that ZDP-189 is superior for cutting synthetic type materials (plastics, nylon, etc.) compared to some of the other stainless steel alloys, but is comparatively inferior in cutting natural materials (fibrous textiles, groundwood & kraft papers, cotton, flax, etc.).
Click to expand...

Can you give some more detail here.

I find it more difficult to create and maintain a uniform cutting edge along the entire length of the edge for blades formed using ZDP-189.
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This is not unreasonable given the large carbide volume. Try using very aggressive hones with light pressure and/or microbeveling.

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
This is not unreasonable given the large carbide volume. Try using very aggressive hones with light pressure and/or microbeveling.

-Cliff
Click to expand...

Interesting tip. I'm going to try that with the 2 ZDP D4s that I have. I have also had some difficulty getting them as sharp as my VG-10 and 154 CM blades... but they do shave and push cut for me, and they hold the edge they have very well.

I use a 30 degree Sharpmaker setting anyway, so I'll try light strokes on the flats of the white Fine rods instead of the U/F ones..
 
The very high carbide volume would be expected to make it harder to obtain a very high push cutting sharpness assuming you have a very high standard which seems to be the case.

-Cliff
 
I had a burgundy Caly. Jr. with the ZDP-189 blade, and mine chipped very easily, after light cutting. Other than that, it was one wickedly sharp knife!!
 
I keep an old phone book around for test pages. Since 90% of the cutting I do is on tape, paper, or thin cardboard, that seems to give me a good test to see how well the blade will perform in the warehouse.

I use a Sharpmaker with U/F rods at the 30 degree setting once or twice a week to touch up the knives that I use at work. All of them will do push cuts on a folded edge of the phone book page and they'll all slice strips off top to bottom without tearing. I have noticed, however, that on the same knife model (Delica 4), I need much less effort to do this with my VG-10 blades than I do with my ZDP-189 blades. I seem to be able to get a sharper and more consistent edge on the VG-10.

I read one of your posts a while back about D2 wanting to be "toothier" than a stainless steel to work best, so I'm thinking that maybe ZDP-189 also wants to be less polished than VG-10 or 154CM to perform best?
 
Generally yes, the high carbide steels are better suited to coarse edges and slicing than high polishes and push cutting.

-Cliff
 
Thanks, Cliff. Can't wait to try that on my D4s this weekend then get 'em back to the warehouse next week.
 
My ZDP Caly Jr. has a Krein regrind to .004"-.005" (it has thinned a little since I reprofiled to 5 per side) and has tremendous cutting ability ad edge retention. However, compared to my other most used knives like my Manix and R2, which I can get nice, hair whittling edges on, it doesn't get quite as sharp for me, especially on the ceramic benchstones that work so well on my other knives. It pops hairs, shaves a bit above the skin, and push cuts newsprint well away from the point of hold, but the Manix and R2 get noticeably sharper (but due to the geometry it still outcuts the other knives by a large margin). I got a Norton 1K/8K combo stone and got better results than with the ceramic, with much less burring as the Norton seems to cut cleaner than the ceramics as I get less burring. Granted, it is a finer grit than my UF ceramic, but it is still sharper than when I was finishing on a 1 micron polishing cloth, which is finer than the Norton. With more practice on the waterstone hopefully I will get even better results. I just got my new ZDP Endura last night and will have to sharpen it up and see how it reacts. The factory edge isn't the usual Spyderco sharp (it shaves OK, but not close to tree topping), so I will have to tune it up before sending it off to Tom Krein for a full flat grind and splinter picker tip mod, with an edge thickness of .010" or so (factory is around .021"). That should improve the cutting ability a lot compared to the current low saber grind on it.

Mike
 
Cliff Stamp said:
The very high carbide volume would be expected to make it harder to obtain a very high push cutting sharpness assuming you have a very high standard which seems to be the case.

-Cliff
Click to expand...

This is wrong statement. High volume of carbides does not make it harder to obtain very high sharpness. I may understand this statment if it was about high size of carbides, but modern science know that ZDP is PM steel. Even with carbides which has bigger size in high Carbon non PM steel like D2 it is wrong - any sharpeners have abrasives harder then most cadbides except, Aluminium oxides are not harder then vanadium carbides which are in CPM S30V etc steel, and of course diamonds will sharpen anything. It is harder to have high polish using felt wheel or something, but not high edge using modern sharpeners.

So this is not expected. And of course in practice ZDP189 has excellent edge.

Accordng to my unscientific experiments Callipso Jr. ZDP189 out of the box shows superior sharpness then any other knives. And it holds it better.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Despite being admittedly very biased against stainless in general, I really, really like ZDP-189 -- at least how Spyderco does it. I haven't tried it from anyone else yet.

I do not find it difficult to sharpen at all. A little more time-consuming perhaps, but I seldom need to hone it the first place.
 
I reprofiled my D4 in ZDP189 with a very high grind then mirror polish finished it. This is now one amazing cutter. It used to shave like a beast. Now it treetops even better. I've used it on a variety of materials and have had no problems with chipping or edge damage. It easily cuts as well or better than my BM M2's or my Wilson CPM10V blades. It's quite a work horse now.

Don't hesitate to get a blade in ZDP189; better still, don't be afraid to tune it up by reprofiing it to get better performance from your blade.

NJ
 
Native Justice said:
I reprofiled my D4 in ZDP189 with a very high grind then mirror polish finished it. This is now one amazing cutter. It used to shave like a beast. Now it treetops even better. I've used it on a variety of materials and have had no problems with chipping or edge damage. It easily cuts as well or better than my BM M2's or my Wilson CPM10V blades. It's quite a work horse now.

Don't hesitate to get a blade in ZDP189; better still, don't be afraid to tune it up by reprofiing it to get better performance from your blade.

NJ
Click to expand...

I also add that Delica and Endura does not really match beauty of ZDP189 and need reprofiling. Kershaw has better grind for it I think. But it is not a big deal to regring Delica and Endura. I did it myself on Delica and going to do this for Endura also.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
"http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=463489&page=2"

Vassili,

What do you think about the Roman Landes' statement, particularly the points 5 and 6?

The matrix stability would be the critical factor, not the carbides grindability.
I agree with you about the ZDP Calypso jr. Even with an acute angle the edge holds on, it just needs a (tiny) secondary bevel to avoid the burr formation when cutting hard stuff like wood.

dantzk.
 
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