ZDP-189, the new super steel?

Ken44 · Jul 23, 2009

THG said:
In what knives? I thought the maker of ZDP-189 requires that a certain Japanese company make the knives because it needs a special "secret" heat treat or something like that.

Josh K said:
IIRC it was a proprietory steel, the composition isn't fully known, and only knives made in Japan have access to it.

For one, William Henry was using it years ago, it was the first I heard of the steel.

Josh, Not sure, but I also thought the new ZDP Spyderco Mule was made in Golden....wasn't it? Have you got one yet?

Most made here won't be layered, but any knives I've seen made with it in Japan were. Then again I could be way off

edit- I warned you I could be way off,lol. TheZDP Mule was made in Japan...wasn't sure. I wonder where the William Henry's were made...there or here?

Sal Glesser · Jul 23, 2009

My Goodness, so many experts.

As Vassili mentioned, we know exactly what's in ZDP-189, including all of the trace elements. We list what Hitachi lists. If they wanted the public to know what was in ZDP, they would say so. It's not our place to look under Hitachi's skirt and tell.

We tested ZDP knives back in 1999 & 2000. It's not a new steel. We've tested both solid and laminated ZDP. We have made knives out of both solid and laminated ZDP. I would venture to say that we have produced more ZDP knives that anyone else.

Hitachi will sell us any steel they make.....except ZDP-189. They won't ship us ZDP-189 because they said that they prefer to use special heat treaters in Japan that they have trained to heat treat the steel.

Some custom makers have purchased it from secondary suppliers. I don't know how they heat treat. I was told by one factory that they heat treat ZDP the same as ATS-34. I personally do not think it's so simple, but who am I to say?

Our ZDP has performed well for many thousands of customers. all of it has been heat treated by trained Japanese heat treaters.

sal

harkamus · Jul 24, 2009

By "new" super steel, I didn't mean new as in just came out recently. I meant more as in, will it eventually replace what is arguably the super steel of right now, s30v? I say this because it seems to me that more knives are coming out with ZDP-189 blade steel. I'm beginning to see it as a trend. It's like any steel that replaces older steels. 440c being replaced a lot by ATS 34, ATS 34 being replaced by D2 and 154 cm, etc (or whatever the progression was).

Since Sal, chimed in, I'd like a ball bearing mechanism knife with ZDP-189.

I would love a ball bearing Stretch.

5.56 · Jul 24, 2009

harkamus said:
Since Sal, chimed in, I'd like a ball bearing mechanism knife with ZDP-189. I would love a ball bearing Stretch.

Well if you can wait a little while, they are releasing a Manix2 with caged ball lock and S90v which will pretty much perform on the same level as ZDP-189

Sal Glesser · Jul 24, 2009

Hi Harkamus,

I think that ZDP-189 is a bit too specialized to become a main stream high line steel. Like CPM-S90V, it's more "Ferrari like" and will more than likely remain an "Exotic", in my opinion.

5.56 is correct in that the S90V Manix2 is a ball lock with an exotic steel.

sal

nozh2002 · Jul 24, 2009

I found link to original thread from 4 years ago:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=357804

To HT ZDP189 covered with ATS-34
------------------------------
30 min at 1050 C
air cooling
30 min at -75 C in alcogol with Dry Ice
air warming
2 h at 160-200 C

Original - http://www.hatta.co.jp/zdp.html

Thanks, Vassili.

Cryogenic will be even better then dry ice.

harkamus · Jul 24, 2009

Sal Glesser said:
Hi Harkamus,

I think that ZDP-189 is a bit too specialized to become a main stream high line steel. Like CPM-S90V, it's more "Ferrari like" and will more than likely remain an "Exotic", in my opinion.

sal

Good evening, Sal.

Sprint run zdp 189 ball bearing Stretch maybe? :thumbup:

EDIT: I'll have to pick up an s90v Manix 2 in the future to go along with the regular Manix 2.

THG · Jul 24, 2009

Sal Glesser said:
Hitachi will sell us any steel they make.....except ZDP-189. They won't ship us ZDP-189 because they said that they prefer to use special heat treaters in Japan that they have trained to heat treat the steel.

Ah, so that's where I got the information

Ken44 · Jul 24, 2009

THG said:
Ah, so that's where I got the information

From the William Henry web site...
"William Henry worked closely with partners in Japan to develope a laminate that captures a "core" center layer of ZDP-189 stainless steel within a layer of 420J2 steel for our blades"

I think it was used first on there "Quest" folder. Pretty sure they were using it by 95 at the latest.

I've got a couple of WH's but none in zdp, so I'm not sure where the ZDP knives were made??? I thought it was here in US.
Doesn't say on the site, I'm going to call them when they open to find out for sure were there ZDP-189m blades are made.
I'll post after talking to them.

EDIT- just got off phone with WH. The ZDP knives are made in Japan.

Sal Glesser · Jul 24, 2009

by the same maker that makes the Caly3.

sal

Ken44 · Jul 24, 2009

Sal Glesser said:
by the same maker that makes the Caly3.

sal

I knew I had good taste

I've bought three Caly 3's in the past 2 months. I was really, really impressed with the first. All three flawless.

G10 in PE and SE, and a CF ZDP.

The CF ZDP Caly 3 is an amazing knife, esp for the price! My micarta sebbie now has to split its pocket time with the Caly 3...thats how much I like it. A large Millie stays in the back pocket everyday.

THG · Jul 24, 2009

Ken44 said:
From the William Henry web site...
"William Henry worked closely with partners in Japan to develope a laminate that captures a "core" center layer of ZDP-189 stainless steel within a layer of 420J2 steel for our blades"

That's not what I was talking about

Ken44 · Jul 24, 2009

THG said:
That's not what I was talking about

under that I told that I wasn't really sure about the WH's. Then I found out and add'ed an Edit stating all there zdp's were made in Japan.....meaning you were right to start with(couple of pages back I think)

As you said then, ALL production folders using zdp are made in Japan. It won't be the last time I'm wrong around here,lol.

The first time I read Sals above post I missed(or misread/understood) that the small amount of zdp that has gotton here second hand may have been used my some Custom makers, but NO production manufactors.

Sal Glesser · Jul 24, 2009

Actually Kershaw was able to bring some in. I imagine they have connections in Japan that I don't have. Kai is a well known hundred year old company in Japan. Craig and Tim did the work on theirs. They could probably give you more info.

I don't know if anyother manufactuers have brought any ZDP into the US for production.

sal

The Mastiff · Jul 24, 2009

A.G. Russell advertises that his ZDP one handed folders are made in the US, except for the steel being imported. I have no idea if that means he is importing them already heat treated, or doing that himself. The ad sort of infers that he is having the heat treat done here.

Expensive knives. One in ZDP, and one in CPM 154. With or without scales. They are nice. The thing about it is with ZDP, a FRN Endura or stretch can perform every bit as well, or better than a several hundred dollar semi custom.

I really like ZDP , and have had no problems with chipping, breaking or any other problems typically associated with high hardness. Even when I thin out the edges, and change the geometry.

Truly amazing stuff, all the more so being it's a high carbide fraction stainless steel.

Ken44 · Jul 24, 2009

THG said:
In what knives? I thought the maker of ZDP-189 requires that a certain Japanese company make the knives because it needs a special "secret" heat treat or something like that.

Kershaw.

Oh... did I say William Henry before, I meant Kershaw

Just kidding of course, I know nothing about Kershaw...and not as much as I thought I did about William Henry,lol

Sal, I think we got this zdp thing down now, thanks for walking us through it

Good thread(at least I learned a few things).

harkamus · Jul 24, 2009

So who wants more ZDP-189 knives?!

J_Curd · Jul 24, 2009

The Mastiff said:
A.G. Russell advertises that his ZDP one handed folders are made in the US, except for the steel being imported. I have no idea if that means he is importing them already heat treated, or doing that himself. The ad sort of infers that he is having the heat treat done here.

We both love the people who make that knife.

nozh2002 · Jul 24, 2009

Why Crucible for so long can not came up with anything comparable?

Thanks, Vassili.

2brothers · Jul 24, 2009

nozh2002 said:
Why Crucible for so long can not came up with anything comparable?

Thanks, Vassili.

They may not want to pursue it. Maybe they have something their working on that will be even better but haven't announced it yet.
Who knows?

Have you contacted them and asked if they have something comparable to ZDP-189? That's a start.

mike