Zdp-189?

[oldtymer]

The Queen built Tuna Valley series with buffalo horn have 154CM blades as well.

Really nice looking TV there. I,m a fan of CM154 also.

 

[black mamba]

Thanks, oldtymer, I like both it and ATS-34 a lot.

 

[knarfeng]

Again, I've seen a lot of nice offerings in other premium steels but I'm specifically looking for any makers that have used or are willing to use ZDP-189 in a traditional pattern. If anybody knows of one I'd really like to get in contact with them.

Thanks,
~Chip

I think you would have to find a Japanese custom maker for that. IIRC, ZDP189 is not sold outside of Japan.

 

[markv]

like a friend of mine says "it's a pocket knife" meaning it doesn't have to have killer steel. i get that.
i don't mind having slips with D2. don't think i own a slipjoint with ATS-34.
i'm really happy with 1095. not exactlly space age but then again "it's a pocket knife".
i do notice the difference when i sharpen ZDP-189 and 1095 but i grew up with carbon steel.
i carry the Caly-3 everyday along with a G.E.C. 73. i guess i'm covered
doesn't sound like i'm even on topic, but thinking about a slippy with ZDP-189 is not on my radar. i'll bet there are plenty knife makers thinking of what steel to use for whatever reasons, but so far i have not heard of any using ZDP.
buzz

 

[Tdhurl1103]

I've had a couple Spyderco knives in ZDP-189. Used the plain edge one and let it get dull. What a bear that was sharpening it. Sold it shortly thereafter. Still have the other with a serrated blade, it's a beater as it has a couple extra chips. Not a big fan of the steel.

This is why I stayed away from ZDP-189 in moderns. I'm not sure I'd get a trad in this steel either. Not a fan.

 

[fatcorgi]

is it true that it actually goes dull by itself sitting in the draw?
One thing that makes it suitable for traditionals is that it seems very carbony, takes a strange patina very quickly.

 

[Nap]

That's the G.Sakai Fieldman Trekking tool I mentioned earlier...I'm not sure if I can post a link to his site here though.

So, I've been following this thread because I want the same thing OP wants, but I looked this one up, and man... that might do it for me. I'd have to find a way to put custom scales on it, though—the plastic one in particular looks like a dollar-store SAK knockoff, and I don't think I could bring myself to use it in public. Maybe some scrollwork on the wood...

 

[brownshoe]

I have a william henry in zdp. I love it. Has not really needed a sharpen, but i run it over the sharpmaker 30 degree white rods every so often. With a material like zdp, how it performs also depends upon who made it. Fallkniven sells some traditionals made in japan that have some really hard steels.

 

[WValtakis]

Okay, does anyone know of any Japanese makers that do traditional patterns? There's obviously G.Sakai, but I don't think I'm going to talk em into a producing a whole run just so I can have one...

~Chip

 

[lambertiana]

Hiroaki Ohta is in Japan and makes outstanding traditional knives. My bucket list includes something from him.

 

[WValtakis]

Thanks for the tip! It looks like he doesn't currently work with zdp-189, but I'm going to try contacting him and see if he's open to trying it.

~Chip

 

[WValtakis]

Good news- He got back to me really quick...bad news- he has no plans to use zdp-189

~Chip

 

[stezann]

i don't see the point in making a slipjoint in those kind of steels, unless one needs to cut a lot of carpets as the main use...or other soft, abrasive materials. Or for experienced and careful user of kitchen knives which are used to handle keen and very delicate edges.
Having a steel filled with a whole load of carbides just makes for incredible wear resistance, but wear is not the culprit for the loss of sharpness.
On the other hand such a steel won't allow for a keen edge to be used for multiple tasks, because it wouldn't be stable enough. It is brittle!! A steel with way less toughness than ATS34 and 440C would require edge angles north of 40° included to be used as allaround pocket knife, making it a moot point chosing it instead of other steels.... The powder technology is there to improve the situation, but the result is not well suited for an allaround cutting tool as a pocket knife.


http://www.discipleofdesign.com/knives/ZDP189_eng.pdf

 

[brownshoe]

...On the other hand such an edge won't allow for a keen edge because it wouldn't be stable enough. It is brittle!! A steel with way less toughness than ATS34 and 440C would require edge angles north of 40° included to be used as allaround pocket knife.... The powder technology is there to improve the situation, but the result is not well suited for an allaround cutting tool....

Don't know what ZDP knife you have been using, but my William and Henry has an edge that is less than 30 degrees (but not by much), does not chip and does not really need sharpening for the last year. I have used it to prepare a number of meals, including cutting the back out of more than one chicken...no chipping, rolling at all.

Tony Bose bought up the remaining stock of 440V and makes knives with it today, so perhaps a super steel does belong in a traditional pocket knife.

 

[EricV]

Don't know what ZDP knife you have been using, but my William and Henry has an edge that is less than 30 degrees (but not by much), does not chip and does not really need sharpening for the last year. I have used it to prepare a number of meals, including cutting the back out of more than one chicken...no chipping, rolling at all.

Tony Bose bought up the remaining stock of 440V and makes knives with it today, so perhaps a super steel does belong in a traditional pocket knife.

I've had 3 Spyderco ZDP-189 blades, two Delicas (1 SE, 1 PE) and an Endura briefly (PE). The PE Delica was quite chip happy until it was used past the factory edge grind, then it was much nicer. The SE had a lot of chips in the teeth, ended up sending it back to Spyderco for sharpening and traded it on. The Endura also came with a broken tip from the previous owner and a few chips, but I never used it very much. At the time I was cutting a lot of very dirty 3/4" nylon and poly rope, and the small rocks did a job on the hard edge.

I suspect a lot of ZPD-189's reputation for chipping comes from the factory edges on Spydercos which I suspect maybe have gotten a bit hotter than intended in grinding which made them extra chip happy. As most owners never wear past that first bit of steel, it seems reasonable that that is the reason for the reputation.

I would not want a traditional in ZPD 189 personally. Now M4 would be interesting though.

 

[stezann]

30° included is a bit wide for my tastes, and even zdp189 could be sharpened thinner, but does require correct handling. Other steels are less likely to let down the enthusiasts.
I agree that sharpening is to be done by hands on stones/diamond plates with coolant.

What i'm trying to underline is that we should ask ourselves what could we expect from a particular steel, and if it's appropriate for the intended use.
On the contrary it looks to me that the exotic steels are simply pushed by hypes, unrelated to the effective possibilities they have to offer.
Since the wear resistance is quite a moot point when it comes to edge holding, expecially at those levels, but it does compromise the edge stability, i wouldn't want use that steel for a slippie, while i would take advantage of the added strenght (higher hardness) for very specialized kitchen blades like yanagiba, where a brittle edge is not a problem since the way that particular knife is used.

Always remember that a 45-50° edge is used in full carbide gravers, and it is possible to make a 1/2 inch thick blade in carbide with a 50° bevel, but wouldn't be a good performing knife imho....still i bet it would sell a lot!!!

 

[WValtakis]

I appreciate that there are differing opinions on ZDP-189, all I can say is I've had no chipping issues with mine and amazing edge retention. I think it would be awesome to have a traditional that takes an edge and holds it like my Yuna EQ-1.

But this wasn't meant to be a discussion of the merits of ZDP-189 or even it's suitability for a traditional slipjoint. I'm really just looking for help finding a maker that has access to the steel and the desire to make a slipjoint for me with said steel. Thanks in advance for any more help that you can provide.

~Chip

 

[stezann]

Custom makers are there for satisfy this kind of requests! I hope you'll find what you need :thumbup:

 

[usb7000]

I appreciate that there are differing opinions on ZDP-189, all I can say is I've had no chipping issues with mine and amazing edge retention. I think it would be awesome to have a traditional that takes an edge and holds it like my Yuna EQ-1.

But this wasn't meant to be a discussion of the merits of ZDP-189 or even it's suitability for a traditional slipjoint. I'm really just looking for help finding a maker that has access to the steel and the desire to make a slipjoint for me with said steel. Thanks in advance for any more help that you can provide.

~Chip

Though he's not a maker per se, A.G. Russell has worked with Japanese makers for years. They've made knives for him (slipjoints) in all kinds of steel
including ATS-34, VG-10, 154CM, BG-42 and others. Perhaps he could point you in the right direction.

 

[WValtakis]

Hiroaki Ohta managed to get his hands on some 3mm laminated ZDP-189, now I'm on his list for this pattern in my favorite blade steel This will be a long three months but I think the wait will be worth it...

~Chip