Zero Tolerance 0562CF & 0620CF Pre-orders

Status
Not open for further replies.
Quiet said:
If that is your belief, no one here has any real issue with that, least of all me. However, now you are saying "I was stating my opinion", when before you stated "$240 for a production knife is, in fact, a ridiculous price." and when called on it, replied "Ok, that is a fact, actually." So, thank you for clearing it up. Ultimately, the only fact of the thing is that knife companies are free to charge any price they want and the market will dictate what a fair price is. It's clear that the prices (they vary) set on the 0562 and 0562CF are in line with what the market thinks is fair because they are scarcer than scientists at a Scientology convention right now.

That to me, says it's a good deal. M390, Hinderer styling, a beautiful slicer grind blade, gorgeous carbon fiber scale, titanium lockside, caged bearing flipper, this knife is all marks in the Plus column for me, with none in the negatives.*



*That's bld522's cue to mention the weight! LOL
Click to expand...

No...it's still a crazy price for a production pocket knife, in the scop of things. That's not taking in fit and finish etc. It's $240 for something you will put in your pocket to cut things. The aesthetics and various other things make it(or do not) worth the cost. Wasn't trying to bash the 0562 specifically, it is just a good example.
 
Some people buy knives for more than their ability to cut things. Just saying . . .
 
RemyKaze said:
No...it's still a crazy price for a production pocket knife, in the scop of things. That's not taking in fit and finish etc. It's $240 for something you will put in your pocket to cut things. The aesthetics and various other things make it(or do not) worth the cost. Wasn't trying to bash the 0562 specifically, it is just a good example.
Click to expand...

Again, you continue to display either willful or unintentional ignorance towards what adds value to a product. For example, why bother paying $30+ for an Avispa when a $2 no-name boxcutter will do the same task much cheaper?

Also, again, you continue to make it clear that you feel that what does not add value for YOU means objectively that no one should value those things, and thus the item is not worth the cost. As a result, you are objectively incorrect on multiple counts, sorry man. If we all thought as you do, none of this site's custom knifemakers would be in business. After all, why bother paying for a beautiful handmade knife when I could just take the blade from an old lawnmower I found at the junkyard, wrap some tennis-racket grip tape around one end, sharpen the other on the nearest curb, and call it done?

Titanium, M390, Carbon fiber, caged bearings. Show me a knife that provides those things for vastly cheaper. I'll stand by.
 
Quiet said:
Again, you continue to display either willful or unintentional ignorance towards what adds value to a product. For example, why bother paying $30+ for an Avispa when a $2 no-name boxcutter will do the same task much cheaper?

Also, again, you continue to make it clear that you feel that what does not add value for YOU means objectively that no one should value those things, and thus the item is not worth the cost. You are incorrect on multiple counts, sorry man.

Titanium, M390, Carbon fiber, caged bearings. Show me a knife that provides those things for vastly cheaper. I'll stand by.
Click to expand...

Show me a knife that needs those to open and close easily, stand the test of time, and hold an edge. I won't hold my breath. You're convincing yourself you need those materials. That's fine. I don't.

The Avispa just barely clears my price range on the low end because it performed outside of that low end range. Doesn't mean it performs better in terms of edge holding or ease of action than my more expensive knives, though it does cut cleaner. And it does hold an edge to my satisfaction, surprisingly. A $2 box cutter will not open as easily, will not stay sharp, will be too thin for what I want it for. Those are reasons that I go higher in price. At some point, those reasons are satisfied and higher prices do not merit purchase.
 
RemyKaze said:
Show me a knife that needs those to open and close easily, stand the test of time, and hold an edge. I won't hold my breath. You're convincing yourself you need those materials. That's fine. I don't.

The Avispa just barely clears my price range on the low end because it performed outside of that low end range. Doesn't mean it performs better in terms of edge holding or ease of action than my more expensive knives, though it does cut cleaner. And it does hold an edge to my satisfaction, surprisingly. A $2 box cutter will not open as easily, will not stay sharp, will be too thin for what I want it for. Those are reasons that I go higher in price. At some point, those reasons are satisfied and higher prices do not merit purchase.
Click to expand...

No, I'm not. I recognize their value (a significant difference), and have paid accordingly. You choose not to, that's fine. But the issue is that just because you choose not to, doesn't mean that these things don't have (or add) value, and thus add to the price. End of story, really.

Also, the irony of the rest of your post, I'm not sure you see it. You're attempting to list qualities that you DO feel add value, as reasons for why you spent more than $2 on an Avispa. LOL I think we're done here.
 
Quiet said:
No, I'm not. I recognize their value (a significant difference), and have paid accordingly. You choose not to, that's fine. But the issue is that just because you choose not to, doesn't mean that these things don't have (or add) value, and thus add to the price. End of story, really.

Also, the irony of the rest of your post, I'm not sure you see it. You're attempting to list qualities that you DO feel add value, as reasons for why you spent more than $2 on an Avispa. LOL I think we're done here.
Click to expand...

Diminishing returns. Apparently the concept doesn't exist in the knife collecting world. It's ok, you don't get it. I'm not knocking you blowing your money on whatever knife you want. You got upset about me stating my opinions as to why I'm not buying this knife anymore, and including a fact that you simply do not want to face, nor refute. I see no point in arguing with a zealot.
 
RemyKaze said:
Diminishing returns. Apparently the concept doesn't exist in the knife collecting world. It's ok, you don't get it. I'm not knocking you blowing your money on whatever knife you want. You got upset about me stating my opinions as to why I'm not buying this knife anymore, and including a fact that you simply do not want to face, nor refute. I see no point in arguing with a zealot.
Click to expand...

I am not upset in the slightest, nor am I a zealot. Your refusal to see the value added by premium materials doesn't perturb me in the slightest. I initially responded to correct you on your attempt at passing off your personal views as facts, when they were in fact only your opinions. You do not place value on quality materials, that is just fine with me, and with everyone else here I'm sure. I have no issue with that. In fact, I even asked you above to help me out.

I value: titanium locksides (with a framelock with replaceable steel face, and an overtravel stop), carbon fiber scales, M390 steel blades, caged bearing flipping action, and a great grind. Please show me a knife that costs $100 or less to put THAT KNIFE in my pocket. It doesn't even have to be a Hinderer design (because we all know there isn't one). I value those things, and wanted them in a knife. Hey, if I could have paid $50 for a 0562CF, I absolutely would have. But I understand that the things I value add cost to a folding knife, and paid accordingly.

But hey! If you can help a brother out, this 0562CF will be on the Exchange by tonight and I'll order TWO of those $100 M390 bladed, CF/Ti handled framelock knives. I'd appreciate your help.
 
Quiet said:
I am not upset in the slightest, nor am I a zealot. Your refusal to see the value added by premium materials doesn't perturb me in the slightest. I initially responded to correct you on your attempt at passing off your personal views as facts, when they were in fact only your opinions. You do not place value on quality materials, that is just fine with me, and with everyone else here I'm sure. I have no issue with that. In fact, I even asked you above to help me out.

I value: titanium locksides (with a framelock with replaceable steel face, and an overtravel stop), carbon fiber scales, M390 steel blades, caged bearing flipping action, and a great grind. Please show me a knife that costs $100 or less to put THAT KNIFE in my pocket. It doesn't even have to be a Hinderer design (because we all know there isn't one). I value those things, and wanted them in a knife. Hey, if I could have paid $50 for a 0562CF, I absolutely would have. But I understand that the things I value add cost to a folding knife, and paid accordingly.

But hey! If you can help a brother out, this 0562CF will be on the Exchange by tonight and I'll order TWO of those $100 M390 bladed, CF/Ti handled framelock knives. I'd appreciate your help.
Click to expand...

Tl;dr, but ok. Whatever you said.
 
RemyKaze said:
Tl;dr, but ok. Whatever you said.
Click to expand...

So, are you going to help me or what? I mean, you are claiming that the 0562CF isn't worth what it costs. Therefore, I'm forced to conclude that you are aware of a knife (or knives) which feature those same materials that costs substantially less. Point me in the right direction! I'm raring to go!

Edited to add an on-topic response:

I preordered the 0562CF through two different Bladeforums vendors and never heard back from either one. I sourced mine through an exceptionally generous fellow forum member.
 
Quiet said:
So, are you going to help me or what? I mean, you are claiming that the 0562CF isn't worth what it costs. Therefore, I'm forced to conclude that you are aware of a knife (or knives) which feature those same materials that costs substantially less. Point me in the right direction! I'm raring to go!
Click to expand...

Those materials aren't worth the cost to me. It's like you saying you like gold and platinum watches, while I like watches made from steel. They don't help the knife do the work any better. You're hyping things that validate an increase in price for you, but not for someone who doesn't collect.

I wasn't trying to argue with you in the first place. Different people want different things. I've already said that if you feel it is justified, buy it. I dont, and so I didn't. The end.
 
Let's not go down this road yet again guys. Keep it civil and on topic.
Discuss the topic NOT one another. Antagonisms and poking are not fun to read.
 
RemyKaze said:
Those materials aren't worth the cost to me. It's like you saying you like gold and platinum watches, while I like watches made from steel. They don't help the knife do the work any better. You're hyping things that validate an increase in price for you, but not for someone who doesn't collect.
Click to expand...

So, you flat out don't value premium materials? Alright then, fair enough. I'll bow out of our discussion.
 
Anyway folks, who's got pictures of the Elmax version? I'll most likely need one of those also. This is such a fantastically quality product. Can't recommend it highly enough, and at a bargain!

15207988312_5e3312ce00_b.jpg
 
RemyKaze said:
Premium is a perspective.
Click to expand...

actually its not, and you really illustrate your ignorance with that post....Premium is defined (in this case) by the additional cost associated with different types of materials and manufacturing (and yes, its more expensive to manufacture in the USA). Your problem seems to be that you cannot separate your "facts" with others opinions. You dont want to pay more money for a knife that just cuts stuff. Thats not a factual basis for the opinion that the knife is overpriced. You dont seem to be able to make an argument and stick with it:

RemyKaze said:
$240 for a production knife is, in fact, a ridiculous price.
Click to expand...
RemyKaze said:
It's pretty cool, and in the market, it is a great deal.
Click to expand...
RemyKaze said:
From my perspective, I'd rather get a custom and keep my <$150 knives. But, I can understand why others would buy the ZT.
Click to expand...


so....which is it, because you keep redirecting your argument towards the preference you have to spend your money elsewhere. Thats great, its good to have priorities in life other than knives, but this doesnt mean that everyone else is wrong because you are satisfied with another product....you still havent proven your facts. What you have proven is that you have a poor basis for an argument, and in the face actual manufacturing experience and factual information (see Pittknife's post) you still feel justified in your opinion. Thats great....just please, stop misusing the word fact.
 
Rival1314 said:
actually its not, and you really illustrate your ignorance with that post....Premium is defined (in this case) by the additional cost associated with different types of materials and manufacturing (and yes, its more expensive to manufacture in the USA). Your problem seems to be that you cannot separate your "facts" with others opinions. You dont want to pay more money for a knife that just cuts stuff. Thats not a factual basis for the opinion that the knife is overpriced. You dont seem to be able to make an argument and stick with it:






so....which is it, because you keep redirecting your argument towards the preference you have to spend your money elsewhere. Thats great, its good to have priorities in life other than knives, but this doesnt mean that everyone else is wrong because you are satisfied with another product....you still havent proven your facts. What you have proven is that you have a poor basis for an argument, and in the face actual manufacturing experience and factual information (see Pittknife's post) you still feel justified in your opinion. Thats great....just please, stop misusing the word fact.
Click to expand...

Ok, cool story. Please stop quoting me. I'm not a collector, I am a user to the bone, and we have different ideas about cost and value. Cool. Ok. The end. I've unsubbed this thread.
 
I remember when the 0560 was introduced. For the majority of us, time just stopped as we studied every little curve of that knife. People were insanely anxious to get one in their pocket and the $240 price tag and several months wait was no issue because we knife-nuts knew it was the latest and greatest in production knives. Now, ZT has given us an upgraded version for $209-$240! It's a no-brainer and the knife will hold its value. Well worth it...IMO ;). Hell, I'd even pay $300 for it.
When you have a passionate interest in a hobby (whether it be knives, guns, or fast cars) you gain an appreciation and respect for companies/makers that provide you with the best of the best at a fair price.
ZT has done this for years now and the demand for ZT knives is through be roof. They have left several popular knife companies in the dust by providing better quality and better materials at competitive prices.
The so-called logic of "my $20 knife can cut just as good or better than that" is redundant and just shows that some people dont share the same passion, but may go out and spend 10x what we would on another product or tool.
NOT a fact...just an opinion :)
 
Thank you Rival.

People just can't mercilessly bash a knife for no good reason only to hide behind the 'well I wanted it originally' explination.

If someone was excited for a $240 knife only to find that a $50 knife meet all his needs, that's fine. That doesn't mean the $240 knife is now ridiculously overpriced....
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top