Zero Tolerance could push their way back to the forefront of premium production knives. Why don’t they do it?

Overall I like ZT and will always be interested in what they have to offer. Like most, their new offerings are not all that exciting but my USA Made Blade 308 is a lot of fun. For me, the strongest case for a large folder with bearings and what I carried today with the Smock.

My 0220 is part of what got me here...
 
I love ZT and really am happy to have to knives by them...but I feel that they are doomed. There are multiple problems that I feel that they will never be able to recover from.

1. Time to market: ZT can't keep up with the sheer volume of new designs coming from imported brands. This just ain't China, this includes Taiwan and Italy too. These import brands can design, prototype, tool, create and market a new knife in the time it takes for KAI to change toilet paper in the executive washroom. Entire (import) designs and product lines are offered, sold, taken to limited editions and discontinued in the time it takes for ZT to decide on packaging materials.

2. Creative resources: Our best and most creative designers are collaborating with the Import brands while ZT has no in-house designers making new and innovative content. Want a (production) Kick-Stop? China. Want a (production) Shark Lock: Taiwan. What was the last innovation that ZT brought to the knife world? The Martin Fly-Thru pivot on the 0606? Ken Onion can't save them. Rick Hinderer can't save them. They have no ability to innovate and create. New designers in droves are flocking to import brands because they have to. If they want to see their concepts and designs take life, they have to abide by #1 above. ZT is NOT a destination.

3. Exposure: When's the last time you saw an Instagram Influencer or a YouTube Reviewer crow over a ZT? I hate that environment, but that's what frankly drives knife sales. Until ZT can put a new design in front of reviewers that drives sales, their market share will decline. They can't put a new design in front of influencers; see #1 and #2 above.

4. Same as it ever was, but different...: ZT quality is no longer notable. It's almost sub-standard. They have no manufacturing advantage over any other production company, and it's only going to get worse. As costs of everything spiral out of control, and they WILL continue to, this will hit makers like ZT the hardest. Import brands will have more ways to "adjust" to higher production costs. The disadvantage to making knives in the western world will only get worse. I'm not calling doom and gloom for all makers, some have adjusted, but ZT has shown no signs of working through the challenging economics of our times; see #1, #2 and #3 above.

5. Look at yourselves!: Those of you calling for a "reboot" to make ZT great again, please just stop! The solution for a fading brand is to bring back a design from the past that will have limited appeal for Knife Knuts today? You want that discontinued [insert random old ZT part number here] because you're an old fart! That knife has run it's course and has sold 90% of the units it will ever sell. A sweet new ZT0350 with Adamantium steel won't save the brand, it'll be bought by 5.275 old farts. That's OK, I'm an old fart too so I can call you one but It's not the solution. ZT has existed by (mostly) bringing back LEs of recently or currently produced brands, and they sit in inventory.

I'm not a pigeon on the chessboard. I don't want to come here and crap all over everything and fly away. I think there is a solution to the ZT problem, but its not what anyone is saying. Hear me out. I DO NOT HATE ZT! I probably proudly own more than most people posing in this thread, but these problems are real.

The solution to let ZT survive resides in Kershaw. Kershaw has demonstrated the ability to bring multiple new designs to market under inexpensive manufacturing conditions (albeit, often of marginal quality and materials). ZT needs to look to Kershaw and derive inspiration. ZT might survive if it shifts to making premium versions of successful Kershaw designs. Wade through the dozens of (mostly) crappy Kershaw offerings each year and cherry-pick the winners. Take the designs and tooling that already exist and bring them to production in premium materials with better fit and finish.

Imagine a ZT Bareknuckle in milled Titanium and M4 steel.
Imagine a ZT manual Natrix in premium micarta, PB washers and CN Damascus steel.
Imagine a manual ZT Leek with washers (or bearings; take your pick) and premium materials.
Imagine a ZT[insert good Launch model here] in premium materials.
Imagine a retired design, like the Skyline, brought back in premium materials with washers.

Once a year ZT makes the obligatory FAT-CARBON-FIBER-MAGNUCUT-SUPER-DUPER LE of current or near current production knives while it builds up a cash purse from sale of premium, vetted Kershaw models sold for the $200-$250 price point.

The revenue generated by premium, winning Kershaw designs might help them to buy, finance and bring the next big thing to market with minimized costs. If nothing else, they might stay relevant. Otherwise, ZT will be a footnote in 10 years. Maybe less.*

Anyway, that's my highly opinionated thought. If you've read this far, bless you.

*edit: I take that back. They might already be a footnote.
 
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Just got into ZTs with 0562ti and a 0566cf. I requested a new clip by online form for the 0566cf, came in less than a week. Better than Benchmade for parts. I'm keeping an eye out for ZTs now. I'm hoping ZT releases some new manual folders. The ZT 0566cf was deassisted within a hour of receiving. Just not my preferred cup of tea.👍
 
Napsterninja said:
Just got into ZTs with 0562ti and a 0566cf. I requested a new clip by online form for the 0566cf, came in less than a week. Better than Benchmade for parts. I'm keeping an eye out for ZTs now. I'm hoping ZT releases some new manual folders. The ZT 0566cf was deassisted within a hour of receiving. Just not my preferred cup of tea.👍
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Clips and screws are easy to get. Try to ask ZT (KAI) to fix things like vertical blade play and lock rock, then come back to report what you've got.
 
tony281sc2 said:
Have you tried the 0801ti? The handles are a bit more contoured.
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I’ve got medium hands on the small side…I did own the 801ti. Super nice knife and I agree with Sharp Edge below, the bladestock was the killer for me.

sharp_edge said:
The main problem with 0801 is the blade stock, especially behind the edge, is too thick.
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sgt1372 said:
I assume it has to do with a wider company perspective for KAI which sees Kershaw as a feeder brand for ZT. So, if cheaper artsy/fartsy Kershaws sell, then they make more expensive arsty/fartsy ZTs to sell to those buyers who want to move up.

But, there actually are still more "old school" style ZTs being sold -- like the 0308, 0350, 0357, 0393, 0450, 0452, 0462 0470, 0562 & 0770 -- than the newer arsty/farsty designs -- like the 0022, 0223, 0230 0235, 0707, 0762, 0990.

So, the perception that ZT isn't living up to its tradition isn't entirely accurate.

It's just that the few newer "old school" type designs that they've produced -- like the 0308 & 0357 -- really aren't all that exciting to fans of the older designs and all that remains are older models that everyone who is/was interested in has/or has passed on already.

However, most of the newer and older ZTs that they are selling are smaller/lighter knives which gives also the impression that ZT has given up on building larger/heftier knives built in the "over built" tradition -- like the 0200, 0300, 0301, 0400, 0550, 0551, 0560, 0561, 0804, 0850, 0909 & 0920.

The only recent exception to the small/lighter trend in ZT knives is the 0308 that I never bought because it isn't that much different or better than the 0300s that I've already got. Not sure how well the 0308 has been selling but, if it a knife doesn't sell, ZT is pretty quick to pull the plug on it.

Anyway, if KAI is doing well selling the smaller/lighter and artsy/fartsy knives, can you really expect them to make more "overbuilt" knives? I think not.

Things change (all the time). Often in ways we don't like. Really nothing be can do about it, except whine, but whining won't change anything. 🤷‍♂️
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Lol, I don’t think I’ve ever seen the word “fartsy” written out!
 
Hackenslash said:
4. Same as it ever was, but different...: ZT quality is no longer notable. It's almost sub-standard. They have no manufacturing advantage over any other production company, and it's only going to get worse. As costs of everything spiral out of control, and they WILL continue to, this will hit makers like ZT the hardest. Import brands will have more ways to "adjust" to higher production costs. The disadvantage to making knives in the western world will only get worse. I'm not calling doom and gloom for all makers, some have adjusted, but ZT has shown no signs of working through the challenging economics of our times; see #1, #2 and #3 above.
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You’re joking with this right? I have dozens of ZTs, most are models made in the last 5-6 years. I had to send 1, yes one, back because of a rust spot on the pivot that probably happened during shipping/storage.
Compared to knives that are Twice as expensive (looking at you Hinderer) the fit and finish is outstanding, and more importantly, consistent.
Oh yeah, and they come sharp :-D
 
Steven65 said:
I too wish they would go back and produce some of the classic earlier designs in uprated materials. I regularly edc a 560 and a 200. They are just such good hard use folders........



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I don't carry them much anymore but I still have both of mine and plan on keeping them.
I consider them a class act and I don't mind they aren't chasing the steel junky customers. What they make they make it well out of good materials. If they weren't doing well they would have changed by now so I won't get involved in trying to tell them how to run their business. They will do what is in their own best interests.
 
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I spent a big chunk of change for this ZT

3VIOUi1.jpg



with the blade open and the locking mechanism latched, it takes a small tap to the back of the blade to cause the lock to fail, resulting in the blade unlocking and rotating. Best way to test this is by holding the handle sides between the thumb and forefinger, that way I don't run the risk of being cut when the blade breaks loose.

I consider that a fail, and I am not going to spend $300 for a more expensive fail.
 
I am shocked, SHOCKED at all the bad things people are saying about ZT.

There are thousands of manufacturers of folding and fixed blades, and ZT is among the top tier of knives by volume. Sure, you can spend 100 X more on better quality knives that YOU like better, but for their price point, I feel ZT gives me premium quality at fair price.

And I couldn't care less about Shabazz or anyone else crowing about knives on 'Gram or Youtube- it doesn't "influence" my buying decisions.
 
ZT is one of those brands that I have no problem buying. Their quality is consistent and IMO most of the models are worth the asking price.
With that being said , there's only one or two in their current lineup that would make me reach for my wallet.
 
Malty Falcon said:
I am shocked, SHOCKED at all the bad things people are saying about ZT. .
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Well hey, you also have to figure, when people are happy, 99.9% of the time they usually don’t say anything….
So out of the hundreds of thousands of knives they’ve built, we have a couple unhappy keyboard warriors quibbling about them being too big, too heavy, and a few others saying the opposite: they need to go back to their roots and build even bigger, heavier knives. Can’t please everyone, but I’ll be waiting for a 0452 sprint in Magnacut when they come out. I’d bet my life on it, magnacut will be the PERFECT steel for Zero Tolerance. 0452s, 0562s, 0308s.
Better or same edge retention as S35VN, and toughness similar to CruWear. In a year or two people will read this thread and laugh. Quote me on that.
 
I dont agree with everything Hackenslash Hackenslash has stated but I can say that I do agree with his idea to run premium ZT versions of the best Kershaws. The leek and the blur were my EDC’s for years. If they released a ZT leek or blur, I would for sure buy one. I also agree that the competition that exists with the higher end Taiwan and Chinese brands is a force to be reckoned with.

ZT was the USA made powerhouse when the Ti framelock, flipper, overbuilt tactical knife was all the rage. To an extent it is still a very popular niche.

What I think is happening is that we are seeing is that the love for that niche was shrunken some. I feel that more and more people are realizing that a thinner, not so heavy edc that really cuts well is more preferable. Everyone still loves a tank of a knife, but with the incredible advances in blade steels blades and edges can be run thinner and still be as robust as the heavy weights under normal EDC use.

Combine that with the fact that the price of everything (for various reasons) is like 1/3 more and people are being more conscious about where their money is spent.

A non ZT example - Spyderco Military is my favorite knife. I was on a mission to get them all. The prices have crept up to the point where I think I am overpaying for what it is when you are talking a standard S30V and black G10 version. $225ish.

Benchmade? Even more ridiculous prices. $150 for a bugout, $170 for a tagged out, 250ish for crooked river?

ZT - $200 for a 235??? $350 for a 308? Over 300 for a larger Sinkevich of hinderer design?

I understand that free market principles will drive prices, but to keep people buying your products you have to offer something that makes the price feel worth it. Personally, I dont feel that the prices on any of the models I just listed are worth it.

I would kill to know how much it actually costs to make a ZT 0235 and a ZT 308.
 
helobite said:
I spent a big chunk of change for this ZT

3VIOUi1.jpg



with the blade open and the locking mechanism latched, it takes a small tap to the back of the blade to cause the lock to fail, resulting in the blade unlocking and rotating. Best way to test this is by holding the handle sides between the thumb and forefinger, that way I don't run the risk of being cut when the blade breaks loose.

I consider that a fail, and I am not going to spend $300 for a more expensive fail.
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I love the whack off tests. Very useful real-world info, unless you don’t use your knife as a hammer 🙄…. If you’re holding the knife with your hand like most folks do, (under that enormous flipper tab), then it won’t fail, but that’s besides the point I guess….
 
Riz! said:
I would kill to know how much it actually costs to make a ZT 0235 and a ZT 308.
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Same here… but in this economy, they must be losing profits compared to past years. If I had to guess I would say a lot of money goes into making the knives here in the USA (yeah you gotta pay those union wages if you want quality). What happens when your Chinese whatchamacallit breaks or needs a screw, a new clip, sharpening (doubt they even do that.)
Nah, I’m good with products made in the USA. Plenty to choose from, and I’m not screwed (or out $30+ for international shipping) if anything happens to the knife.
Plus, pride of owning something made in our country, not by our enemies. That’s worth another $50 right there IMO. The only knives that can come close in terms of price, materials, durability, is Cold Steel. Yes they are slightly cheaper, but that’s because they are mostly made overseas and the QC is just not there compared to ZT, or even a USA made Kershaw.
 
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