Zero Tolerance could push their way back to the forefront of premium production knives. Why don’t they do it?

Hackenslash said:
I thought I bullet-pointed the "ZT problem" in the balance of the post you quoted. Should I have been more long-winded? My fingers were tired, lol :)

Selling all the capacity you make isn't necessarily a good thing. Scroll down current production ZTs at Knifecenter or BHQ; for the most part they are available. I see LEs (that you used to have to grab from one of a few retailers within minutes of the drop) stay available for weeks...months. Check out the Tiger Stripe 0308 and the red CF 0460. Still available. My wife loves her 0566 and when they were closing out I was able to grab a new/old stock for her for about $115. I'm not sure how well ZTs are actually selling. It seems like if every unit of a certain model sell, it's as the result of close-out discounts.
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I don't have access to the USN info a user above posted, but unless that ZT rep is lying, I guess I don't see the problem. I agree with the jist of all the points you made, the issue I have is if any of that is actually a problem for ZT or not? If they literally can't make more stuff because they are at capacity, the biggest problem seems to me to be their production capacity, not something easily corrected in the US. Having all the cool designs and other shit is great, but useless if you can make it.... Spyderco had a big production capacity issue years back and it took them a while to get that corrected and they still run into the production issue all the time now.

So yeah, is there a problem for ZT and they are "doomed" like you claim? I don't know, that seems a little hyperbole chicken little to me. And it was always my understanding that ZT was kind of the play thing of Kershaw anyway. Like, Kershaw makes the money and ZT has the fun.
 
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I don't know if ZT is not at the forefront anymore, but one thing I know for sure is that they're not anywhere near the forefront of production knives for me. I want to like them, but I'd need to see a lot of changes to their designs and execution before I buy another one. I want to see thinner grinds, better heat treatment, steels that make sense for the knife design, and ergonomics that actually work rather than just looking nice. Something other than frame or liner locks would be greatly appreciated as well.

This is entirely speculation, but I'm not sure I believe that they sell as well as a KAI rep would like us to believe. They sure seem to be in stock and on sale pretty frequently, but I could be imagining that.
 
Tc
craytab said:
I don't have access to the USN info a user above posted, but unless that ZT rep is lying, I guess I don't see the problem. I agree with the jist of all the points you made, the issue I have is if any of that is actually a problem for ZT or not? If they literally can't make more stuff because they are at capacity, the biggest problem seems to me to be their production capacity, not something easily corrected in the US. Having all the cool designs and other shit is great, but useless if you can make it.... Spyderco had a big production capacity issue years back and it took them a while to get that corrected and they still run into the production issue all the time now.

So yeah, is there a problem for ZT and they are "doomed" like you claim? I don't know, that seems a little hyperbole chicken little to me. And it was always my understanding that ZT was kind of the play thing of Kershaw anyway. Like, Kershaw makes the money and ZT has the fun.Ss
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craytab said:
I don't have access to the USN info a user above posted, but unless that ZT rep is lying, I guess I don't see the problem. I agree with the jist of all the points you made, the issue I have is if any of that is actually a problem for ZT or not? If they literally can't make more stuff because they are at capacity, the biggest problem seems to me to be their production capacity, not something easily corrected in the US. Having all the cool designs and other shit is great, but useless if you can make it.... Spyderco had a big production capacity issue years back and it took them a while to get that corrected and they still run into the production issue all the time now.

So yeah, is there a problem for ZT and they are "doomed" like you claim? I don't know, that seems a little hyperbole chicken little to me. And it was always my understanding that ZT was kind of the play thing of Kershaw anyway. Like, Kershaw makes the money and ZT has the fun.
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Well, I’ve been accused of hyperbole in the past, so I’ll wear that badge with pride. I am who I am.

But, the thread title/question was ‘can ZT “push their way” to the forefront of production knives’, and it was to that question that I said “They Were Doomed.”

From there, I laid out the reasons why I felt the “return to greatness” can not happen.

I’m not sure you actually disagree with me, only my unconditional bravado. For that approach, I apologize and step back. I think we can all agree that ZT is highly challenged to stay relevant in the modern knife world.

Their first priority should be to survive, and then they can worry about returning to the top of the game.
 
marrenmiller said:
I don't know if ZT is not at the forefront anymore, but one thing I know for sure is that they're not anywhere near the forefront of production knives for me. I want to like them, but I'd need to see a lot of changes to their designs and execution before I buy another one. I want to see thinner grinds, better heat treatment, steels that make sense for the knife design, and ergonomics that actually work rather than just looking nice. Something other than frame or liner locks would be greatly appreciated as well.

This is entirely speculation, but I'm not sure I believe that they sell as well as a KAI rep would like us to believe. They sure seem to be in stock and on sale pretty frequently, but I could be imagining that.
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Thank you, I think you just said in one post what I’ve tried to say in five!
 
I suspect ZT to KAI as compared to kershaw (or even Shun) is just a tiny or even negligible market share. In other words, the mothership does not give a damn whether ZT sells good or bad. But the discussion In this thread remains valid for people visiting this forum.
 
Hackenslash said:
I thought I bullet-pointed the "ZT problem" in the balance of the post you quoted. Should I have been more long-winded? My fingers were tired, lol :)

Selling all the capacity you make isn't necessarily a good thing. Scroll down current production ZTs at Knifecenter or BHQ; for the most part they are available. I see LEs (that you used to have to grab from one of a few retailers within minutes of the drop) stay available for weeks...months. Check out the Tiger Stripe 0308 and the red CF 0460. Still available. My wife loves her 0566 and when they were closing out I was able to grab a new/old stock for her for about $115. I'm not sure how well ZTs are actually selling. It seems like if every unit of a certain model sell, it's as the result of close-out discounts.

Contrast that with Protech, TRM or Tactile and ZT doesn't seem to push the market buttons like it used to.
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As far as I know the 0308TS is not a LE. The 0460 is, but come on….you can get a full titanium 0460 for $60 less, both using 20CV….Hmmm? WTF were they thingking honestly?
Wanna know how (I think) they can stay relevant for the time being?
-New steel options.
Magnacut (or S45VN) would be a great choice for the bigger knives, like the 0452, 0562, 0308 etc…
-Smaller , thinner models (0470, 0990, etc), stick with 20CV or maybe S45VN.
-Offer most models in a choice of stonewash, blackwash and WF blade options.
- offer full ti models, (0452, 0462, 0707, 0308), not as sprints but regular models. Charge what you gotta charge,,, people will buy them. Look at Hinderer, they sell every ti scale they make.
- bring back a few fixed blades. 4V, Magnacut, Cruwear. Maybe 3 or 4 models…people have been begging you to build them for YEARS.
- last but not least, make more variations of the 0393. Not full titanium models, because that would de-value the older Customs. Keep the goofy overlay, but offer a Tanto, a spearpoint, Bowie, Wharncliffe, and obviously keep the Spanto.
But I’m not in charge and nobody cares what I think, but if I ran the company these changes would be in the works and the company would either get much better or go bankrupt.
Oh yeah, rock that 0357 on washers or bearings for god sake
 
Hackenslash said:
The Practic is a $140 budget WE, probably would’ve been a CIVIVI if released today. If that’s your point of reference, it’s not a very good one.
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I was browsing BHQ for new releases and this actually caught my eye. Sleekest front flipper I’ve seen. And I would love to try one. For some reason tho, whenever I plan on buying another WE I end up going with… something else… I think it’s only like $220 tho , which is not bad at all in todays economy for full a ti , 3.5” 20CV knife that looks almost as classy as a Sebenza

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I also think that ZT needs to up their game and get some new stuff out there. Whether it is in-house designed or a collaboration they just need to do it. I did recently get a 308 and it is very nice but they need more. At least 3 or 4 a year to keep people interested. They are part of a huge maker (Kershaw) and should have the capabililty to do anything they can think of.
 
Hackenslash said:
Tc


Well, I’ve been accused of hyperbole in the past, so I’ll wear that badge with pride. I am who I am.

But, the thread title/question was ‘can ZT “push their way” to the forefront of production knives’, and it was to that question that I said “They Were Doomed.”

From there, I laid out the reasons why I felt the “return to greatness” can not happen.

I’m not sure you actually disagree with me, only my unconditional bravado. For that approach, I apologize and step back. I think we can all agree that ZT is highly challenged to stay relevant in the modern knife world.

Their first priority should be to survive, and then they can worry about returning to the top of the game.
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I do appreciate your passion and consider you a friend, that said I just don't see ZT as "doomed" or "needing to survive". You've got a lot of great ideas for a course correction, much of which I agree, I'm just not sure there is a need for ZT, as I don't see the sky falling for them.

I mean, do they need to keep up with to insta-face youboob influencer driven market, Chinese mega popup knife manufacturers, or the dark desires of us on the forums? Or do they just need to be ZT, the fun arm of one of the largest knife manufacturers in the world?
 
sharp_edge said:
I suspect ZT to KAI as compared to kershaw (or even Shun) is just a tiny or even negligible market share. In other words, the mothership does not give a damn whether ZT sells good or bad.
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That has been my understanding as well.

Does ZT need make some improvements to put them back at the forefront of the knife enthusiast market? Absolutely. Do they need to do this to survive? Nope.
 
rpn said:
Would it kill ZT to rerelease the 0777 again?

For the love of god….please. 🤞🏽
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Maybe not exactly the 0777, but they would definitely benefit from releasing a new triple 0xxx model. That would drum up a huge amount of interest and hype in the enthusiast market. Whether they actually NEED a boost like that remains to be seen.

I do love the idea of ZT-ifying some classic Kershaws. The idea of a CF Injection with a new locking mechanism has me drooling.
 
craytab said:
That has been my understanding as well.

Does ZT need make some improvements to put them back at the forefront of the knife enthusiast market? Absolutely. Do they need to do this to survive? Nope.
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I think they could do a version of the 777 with a new premium blade steel but still machined like the original and the handle as the original. I would buy a couple of them immediately. A new fixed blade would also be nice. Get with Terzuola, Sibert, Onion or Brend and get a new collaboration. Come on ZT you can do it!
 
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To me, ZT is the “same old designs, same old steel brand”. I buy quite a few knives, mid to high end…..I never even consider bothering with ZT.
 
NorthernSouthpaw said:
Maybe not exactly the 0777, but they would definitely benefit from releasing a new triple 0xxx model. That would drum up a huge amount of interest and hype in the enthusiast market. Whether they actually NEED a boost like that remains to be seen.
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a 0666 RJ Martin/Sinkevich collab would be awesome….like the Russian overkill, but the American version 😎
 
Other than the M.U.D.D., ZT has had nothing throughout it's history that I would consider "lefty friendly". So regardless of how much I liked the designs of certain models (0456, 0801, 0804) I have yet to keep any longer than a few days.
 
A lot of people pine for ZT’s early years when they were making mostly “overbuilt” folders. But I think the problem is that nowadays, a lot of people realize that being “overbuilt” doesn’t actually make a knife perform better as a cutting tool. It’s like having an “overbuilt” toothbrush.
 
vjb.knife said:
I think they could do a version of the 777 with a new premium blade steel but still machined like the original and the handle as the original.
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The non damascus version already used M390. Not too many premium steels that would be an upgrade over that.
 
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