Zero Tolerance Current/Upcoming/Discontinued Models

sgt1372 · Mar 19, 2019

falar said:
Considering how fast their sprints typically sell out I doubt they see much incentive to change.

I'd like to see less S35VN, more full Ti models, better clip and clip attachment designs, and maybe an integral but I'm just one guy. If what they make sells out they have no reason to doubt what they're doing.

Everyone wants something different.

I have no problem w/S35VN, don't like full Ti knives and I would like more polished or bare metal clips that don't show wear so easily. LOL!

falar · Mar 19, 2019

Which was the point of my post.

On the S35VN topic though ZT seems to clearly be moving towards making 20CV standard with the last several new models having that as the standard blade steel.

That's what makes all of the S35VN sprints so head scratching. For a long time they were usually offered with a steel upgrade, now they are often the same or even a downgrade. The 609 sprints being a prime example. The base knife uses 20CV and they immediately had two S35VN sprints.

I like the 452 but so far only two of its many sprint runs have had a better blade steel.

I don't have a problem with or dislike S35VN either. It is a great "base steel" but when you really up your game and step up to 20CV as a base steel that kind of changes things up in your lineup.

John_0917 · Mar 19, 2019

falar said:
Considering how fast their sprints typically sell out I doubt they see much incentive to change.

I'd like to see less S35VN, more full Ti models, better clip and clip attachment designs, and maybe an integral but I'm just one guy. If what they make sells out they have no reason to doubt what they're doing.

Some sprints definitely do not sell well, you can easily find the DAM and FC 0450 models at dealers, the insane price tags are probably why. Even all black models (usually a safe bet) only move fast because they have lower price tags and materials.

falar · Mar 19, 2019

Those high end 450 "factory customs" sure did stick around. A lot of money for a microknife.

Mako109 · Mar 19, 2019

falar said:
Which was the point of my post.

On the S35VN topic though ZT seems to clearly be moving towards making 20CV standard with the last several new models having that as the standard blade steel.

That's what makes all of the S35VN sprints so head scratching. For a long time they were usually offered with a steel upgrade, now they are often the same or even a downgrade. The 609 sprints being a prime example. The base knife uses 20CV and they immediately had two S35VN sprints.

I like the 452 but so far only two of its many sprint runs have had a better blade steel.

I don't have a problem with or dislike S35VN either. It is a great "base steel" but when you really up your game and step up to 20CV as a base steel that kind of changes things up in your lineup.

Speculation only....I believe we're seeing a lot of S35VN sprints because they have excess inventory that they need to burn through. So they stick it on some old rehashes, dress it up with tiger stripe paint, GITD scales or whatever to make it appealing to collectors, and move 'em out. Hopefully that strategy works, they recover costs and are able to move forward. With all the Chinese (WE, Reate, Rike, Amarosu, etc) and Italian makers releasing nearly everything in M390, yeah ZT's got to step up. Nothing wrong with S35VN, I like it very much. It's the market, everyone seems to want M390 printed on the blade. Just look at inventory at your favorite online retailers. List any of the popular knives in M390 and it sells fast; list the exact same model in CTS204P and watch it just sit. Same steel, go figure.

falar · Mar 19, 2019

M390/20CV/204-P is what I want too but I know it's all the same so am good with any. I agree that M390 is the best seller because it's the most well known in that trio.

They could kick the S35VN down to Kershaw.

yamsi12 · Mar 19, 2019

John_0917 said:
Some sprints definitely do not sell well, you can easily find the DAM and FC 0450 models at dealers, the insane price tags are probably why. Even all black models (usually a safe bet) only move fast because they have lower price tags and materials.

You can also find the 0456cf, 0456bw, 0770cfm4, 0770grybw, 0770obblk, 0462tan, 0393sw, 0609blublk, etc all available online still. The 0609blk seems to have sold out fast as well as the full ti versions of the 0452 though. Still kick myself for not buying the 0609blk when it was out. The one Im surprised about is the 0456cf. Its what the production model should have been IMO. But then again $260 is pricey. Id be in on the 0456 if they used something besides the blue on it. At least they made the 0562ti a production model, even if it as overpriced at $280.

BD_01 · Mar 19, 2019

sharp_edge said:
BTW, put a steel pivot washer in between the ball bearings and the titanium lockbar.

I doubt it will happen on “legacy” models. I don’t see them reinvesting in tooling, testing, sourcing, etc.

They’re heading that direction with new releases though. In case you weren’t aware the 0609, 0462, and I think 0470 all have pivot washers on both sides.

jstn · Mar 19, 2019

Mako109 said:
Speculation only....I believe we're seeing a lot of S35VN sprints because they have excess inventory that they need to burn through. So they stick it on some old rehashes, dress it up with tiger stripe paint, GITD scales or whatever to make it appealing to collectors, and move 'em out. Hopefully that strategy works, they recover costs and are able to move forward. With all the Chinese (WE, Reate, Rike, Amarosu, etc) and Italian makers releasing nearly everything in M390, yeah ZT's got to step up. Nothing wrong with S35VN, I like it very much. It's the market, everyone seems to want M390 printed on the blade. Just look at inventory at your favorite online retailers. List any of the popular knives in M390 and it sells fast; list the exact same model in CTS204P and watch it just sit. Same steel, go figure.

I agree with you. To me, it seems S35VN is MORE appropriate for many ZT models since they are supposed to be hard-use knives, and it is a bit tougher than M390. I love M390, but I would like to to see some Cruwear or something like that in a ZT. Hard-use knife with a hard-use steel.

N4SIR · Mar 20, 2019

jstn said:
I agree with you. To me, it seems S35VN is MORE appropriate for many ZT models since they are supposed to be hard-use knives, and it is a bit tougher than M390. I love M390, but I would like to to see some Cruwear or something like that in a ZT. Hard-use knife with a hard-use steel.

exactly there is NOTHING wrong with s35vn.. a sprint run doesn't have to mean super rare steel .. just a limited number of a different than standard models..

KVT · Mar 20, 2019

I think the issue is when the Sprint Runs has “inferior” steels than their production counterparts.
Take the:
0393 > 0393SW
0609 > 0609BLUBLK

...for instance..

Mako109 · Mar 20, 2019

Well whatever the steel, we all know the Tiger Stripe paint :poop:

treatment makes em all the more tough and hard use

Stumpy72 · Mar 20, 2019

I know CF is the red-hot fashion rage these days and that GITD CF is super cool, but... I’d like to see ZT get real about life and release the next REAL generation of the venerable 0452. Namely, an all Ti-handled 0452 and with an M390 blade--a serious, robust and durable knife for serious, grown-up knife users. No GITD silliness, no Rootie Kazootie Club Secret Decoder Rings and no magic X-ray glasses that enable you to see through other people’s clothing. Just a serious, lifetime quality keeper knife. I know the Secret Decoder Ring would be great and even I would go for the magic X-ray glasses, but I’d really prefer to see the next lifetime quality keeper generation of the 0452 family tree.

IMO it’s time for ZT to move out of the ever-changing array of short-lived sprint run sub-models and give us some stable models that’ll last for many years on end. I wish the original all-Ti 0452 was still available. All the recent plastic-handled iterations are just so much fahion-of-the-moment crap.

MESSAGE TO ZT: Get over your fashion rage sprint run obsession and give us a product that will endure for years.

falar · Mar 20, 2019

There is precedent. The 562TI replaced the CF version. 20CV to boot.

Stumpy72 · Mar 20, 2019

falar said:
There is precedent. The 562TI replaced the CF version. 20CV to boot.

Thank heavens! We’re not without hope. Here’s hoping ZT can wake up, smell the coffee and make a smart (non fashion-of-the-moment driven) move for a change, without increasing the unit price by some slap-in-the-face margin.

falar · Mar 20, 2019

Unfortunately there is precedent for that too. The 562TI price was higher than expected. In fairness its release coincided with their company-wide price increase.

Stumpy72 · Mar 20, 2019

falar said:
Unfortunately there is precedent for that too. The 562TI price was higher than expected. In fairness its release coincided with their company-wide price increase.

Annual price increases are a bitch, but they’re the way of life and and complaining about them is just more pointless noise in the hurricane of life. Anybody who wants to avoid the bite of annual price increases should do their buying before January 1--or better yet in the BF Exchange before January 1.

I bought a ZT 0452 via the Exchange last year and it’s damn close to my favorite EDC. It wasn’t cheap, but it was one of the OK buys I’ve made. I look forward to someday finding another, even better 0452 deal there--unrealistic though that hope may be. Still, I keep searching...

yamsi12 · Mar 20, 2019

falar said:
There is precedent. The 562TI replaced the CF version. 20CV to boot.

The 0562cf version is still in production and already uses 20cv steel. The 0562 has been discontinued and uses s35vn steel. The 0562 was the workhorse, the 0562cf the show pony.

falar · Mar 20, 2019

yamsi12 said:
The 0562cf version is still in production and already uses 20cv steel. The 0562 has been discontinued and uses s35vn steel. The 0562 was the workhorse, the 0562cf the show pony.

I thought they canned both th G10 and CF, guess I read the announcement wrong.

Keeping both is a good idea. I still hope the 452 gets the same evolution.

The 562CF has used a few steels. Mine was 204P and I *think* the early versions may have been M390.

If so that's cool that the 562 has seen all three members of that steel trio.

yamsi12 · Mar 20, 2019

falar said:
I thought they canned both th G10 and CF, guess I read the announcement wrong.

Keeping both is a good idea. I still hope the 452 gets the same evolution.

The 562CF has used a few steels. Mine was 204P and I *think* the early versions may have been M390.

If so that's cool that the 562 has seen all three members of that steel trio.

The 0562 is on clearance now. I’ve seen it as low as $150 which is a great deal imo if someone wants one before they are gone.