Zero Tolerance Liner Lock Closures?

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I just ordered a 0909 that was on sale with free shipping. Like I said, I'm not that concerned about the lock issues. I'd prefer it not shut from spine pressure, but it will probably just be used gutting a few times a year, and to cut bailing twine all the time. The only thing I could ever think of that I'd do with a knife hat would apply spine pressure is batoning, which I hardly ever do and only use some beater knives for when I do. And I'd never do that with a folder.
I guess there are hypthetical situations where I could be forced into needing to process firewood while I only have that on me, or where I end applying spine pressure while trying to stab a bear through the head or in a fight with the Hell's Angles; but yeah, I'm sure that's going to end up happening.
I will let post on this thread and let anyone know if there seems to be any issues when I get it, though.
 
Jill Jackson, I may give mine a tap when I get it, but nothing crazy. If it closes with an amount of pressure I'd feel comfortable giving I'll film it, send it in to ZT and give an update on any feedback I recieve.
 
Here's the lockup on my 0909. Spyderco Military on the bottom that won't fail spine taps. Both knives are brand new no lube on the locks. Pretty clear the difference.
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I have always thought that things went off track on knife design and its perception years ago. A lock (back lock, liner lock, button lock, axis lock, etc.) on a knife that helps hold the blade in position does not make it a fixed blade. The locking devices are not part of a mechanical system that emulates solid steel, but it is a safety device in case the user slips, has an accident of some sort, misjudges his cut, or anything else that would cause the blade to close unexpectedly.

I grew up with traditional knives, and use all of my knives that way. Like they have no locks. I learned that with a few minor cuts and one major one as a child, but hard learned lessons don't fade. To me, a locking device is like guards on my saws (you can still cut yourself with little effort), the brakes on my high powered drills (you can still easily hurt yourself with a high power drill that won't stop) and on and on. The lock is simply a safety device.

Now people seem to devise tests intended to make knives fail (anyone remember Noss?) and test them well beyond their design intentions.

That being said, I was worried about my ZTs after all the desperately reported failures. I took all three of my ZTs out and spine tapped them (two 0909s, and another old enough I don't remember the model) and then tapped them a bit harder. Then I really belted one of the 0909 on the spine hard, and nothing happened. I felt stupid.

When in the world would I use my knife in that manner, beating on something with the spine? I have been in construction for almost 50 years professionally, and I use my knives all day long sometimes and never, ever once have I found myself needing to hit anything with the spine of my knife during my work day. I don't have to invent tests; my knives are used anywhere from a little to a lot, they suffer damage from falling off roofs, being accidently dropped off scaffolds, being loaded up with caustic solvents and on a on. My ZTs have never failed, nor have my Spydercos, nor have my Bucks.

But I understand. You won't get a lot of "views" on your video if you show a knife being used as a knife. Especially some kind of folder. At the very least you should be able to baton with it to see if you can break it that way. I wonder if those videos were done honestly why someone had so many ZTs fail at the same time. Could there have been some kind of lubricant dribble onto the locks? Are they guys that obsessively take their knives apart simply to clean them and then reinstall them without the factory jigs and devices? Dunno...

Robert
 
Jill, you should definitley talk to ZT about it and see if they'd remedy the issue or stand behind the knife as is.
 
Zt's had this problem for a while now and they are ignoring it. I'm not gonna get anymore. Though I do want the new sinkevich they are releasing later this year. We will see if it has the issue. If it does it will go right back and I'll be annoyed I wasted my time.
 
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Mo2 said:
Zt's had this problem for a while now and they are ignoring it. I'm not gonna get anymore. Though I do want the new Shiro they are releasing later this year. We will see if it has the issue. If it does it will go right back and I'll be annoyed I wasted my time.
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It's most certainly your interpretation that there is a problem and that ZT is ignoring this "problem". Spine whacking a folding knife is so far from an intended use that it's silly to even discuss IMO. I get the supposed tactical marketing but if I wanted a true tactical knife, it would not fold.
 
For whatever it's worth, I tested a few of my ZTs last night: 0909, 0900, 0055, and 0920. Just medium whacks on the edge of a plastic storage container that I use for knife storage (by "medium" I mean that I held each knife in a safe grip about a foot above the lid of the container and just let my arm drop until the spine hit the lid). Five whacks with each knife. I have two 0909s, so I tested both. The only knife that folded was the 0920 (4/5 times). The rest were fine.
 
G. Scott H. said:
For whatever it's worth, I tested a few of my ZTs last night: 0909, 0900, 0055, and 0920. Just medium whacks on the edge of a plastic storage container that I use for knife storage (by "medium" I mean that I held each knife in a safe grip about a foot above the lid of the container and just let my arm drop until the spine hit the lid). Five whacks with each knife. I have two 0909s, so I tested both. The only knife that folded was the 0920 (4/5 times). The rest were fine.
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The 920 cost 240, at least mine did. That's a good bit of cash for a locking folder that fails light spine taps on plastic.
 
MSchott said:
It's most certainly your interpretation that there is a problem and that ZT is ignoring this "problem". Spine whacking a folding knife is so far from an intended use that it's silly to even discuss IMO. I get the supposed tactical marketing but if I wanted a true tactical knife, it would not fold.
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Yet many manufacturers, KAI included, use the very word "tactical" in the description of their knives. So why is it wrong for people to discuss the lock reliability due to spine pressure of these tactical folders?
 
jill jackson said:
The 920 cost 240, at least mine did. That's a good bit of cash for a locking folder that fails light spine taps on plastic.
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It is, for sure. To be fair, I bought mine last year (here at bfc for $190 LNIB) and have used it a fair amount (nothing crazy, just edc stuff) and the lock has never slipped or anything. I was surprised it did as poorly as it did, but I'm going to judge it by actual use rather than by these results. :thumbsup:
 
jill jackson said:
The only reason some don't like to talk about is because they like ZT and don't want to admit they screw lock geometry up often.
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No, it's because exactly zero of the many ZT knives I've gotten have had any issues.
I tend to base my opinions on knives on what I have experienced, when I own the product in question.
If I owned none, or just a couple, then maybe I would put some stock in what others are saying.
When I own a bunch and actually use (and abuse) them with zero issues, I don't find myself believing there is an issue.
 
sharp_edge said:
Yet many manufacturers, KAI included, use the very word "tactical" in the description of their knives. So why is it wrong for people to discuss the lock reliability due to spine pressure of these tactical folders?
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Because the knife is not a hammer. If you need to hack at something with the spine of a folding knife (and I've never had that need), use a fixed bade. By the way, define tactical use of a knife please.
 
Others are free to come to their own conclusions based on their own usage, but I will continue to believe the evidence of my own eyes on this matter when it comes to my confidence in buying future ZT products.
 
When I can hit a ultra cheap Chinese knife with a liner lock on a wooden bench no fail and a big bad ZT 0909 liner lock folds with a extremely light tap on a roll of tape, something is wrong. My experience is not unique. I will add the Chinese liner lock was hit as hard as possible.
 
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