Zero Tolerance might be the best thing to ever happen to knives.

[grownstar]

ZT is killing it right now. I like and use plenty of other brands, but nobody can deny that ZT is really at the top of their game.

 

[Random Dan]

ZT is killing it right now. I like and use plenty of other brands, but nobody can deny that ZT is really at the top of their game.

As far as knives go ZT/Kershaw pretty much owned SHOT Show.

 

[grownstar]

As far as knives go ZT/Kershaw pretty much owned SHOT Show.

Yeah, that seems to be the general consensus around here :thumbup:

 

[shqxk]

Spyderco > ZT

 

[Popsickle]

Spyderco > ZT

As much as I love spyderco myself. It's the other way around. ZT is up on their game in such a huge way it's just insane. Spyderco falls a close second until we start seeing goodies come out that we didn't know about.

 

[Popsickle]

Seeing the knives in the catalogue has me hopeful for right around the corner. I would love to believe they learned from past mistakes . I absolutely have to have the emerson zt

 

[McVeyMac]

Many is debatable.. it's just that everyone that gets a bad one makes a thread, and most are user error/ preference, not manufacture error.. not many make a thread when they get a good one.. I bet if you saw the #s of knives made vs "bad ones" it's very very small.

I agree that problems appear to be elevated in places like this. Although, I have read a great deal of positive threads regarding various ZT knives, it seems to me that when somebody posts a problem and there is 6 to 8 pages of replies in a thread, approximately half, or more, of the people are reporting similar problems. They are trying to be helpful, and may suggest solutions that they have used, including sending it back to ZT for warranty repair. I own several ZT knives. My 0561 has serial number 42XX. I am certain that all of the people here that have reported a problem with this knife is only a small fraction of the 4,200+ knives that were made when mine was.

This is just me talking here and YMMV. But if I spend $45 to $60 on a U.S. made Kershaw, and there is something a little bit wrong with it when I receive it (not completely centered blade, hard to deploy, etc.), then I do not mind tinkering with it a little or sending it in for warranty work to resolve the issue. When I spend $200+ on a ZT U.S. made knife, I expect it to work exactly as it was designed to work, out of the box. This might just be me, but this is what I expect at that price point.

I have worked in manufacturing over my career, and I know that crap happens. Does a ZT cost what a Hinderer or Strider or CRK cost. Absolutely not. Would I tinker with one of those knives in order to make it work as designed right out of the box? Absolutely not, it would be returned immediately for a full refund. Would I allow some break in period for any of them in order to smooth out? Absolutely. Does ZT have some really good designs, use quality steel and other materials, a good warranty? Yes, yes and yes. Are they transforming the knife industry? Well they are at least a player that is significantly influencing it.

Would I buy another ZT folder without having an opportunity to handle it first? Based on my experiences, probably not. As I pen this my 0561 is in my pocket. I have been carrying this knife in my rotation for about a year. I really do like it. It works great as a flipper, it works so so as a thumb stud deployable knife. But, when I first received the knife, it was nearly impossible to deploy with the thumb stud. And it took more than a couple of days worth of use for this to smooth out to where it was thumb stud deployable at all. I guess what I am saying is that at this price point, I expect better initial quality from ZT. I will also say that for the price of a Hinderer or even a Strider, I demand better initial quality. And there is a difference between expect and demand.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

As much as I love spyderco myself. It's the other way around. ZT is up on their game in such a huge way it's just insane. Spyderco falls a close second until we start seeing goodies come out that we didn't know about.

Depends on what you're talking about. Spyderco blows ZT out of the water when it comes to tools that are optimized to cut. My humble Stretch will out-slice anything in ZTs lineup by miles and miles. I get that they aren't trying to build refined slicers, but the point still stands. I would say ZT has stepped up their overall quality to a higher level than Spyderco has, but if I had to pick one company to buy from there would be absolutely no competition.

 

[PURPLEDC]

I love zt. I have quite a few of their products. At one point I collected kershaw speedsafe knives almost exlusively. While I agree they are a great company I would be lying if I said I felt they didnt have some room to improve in certain areas. I have had some fit and finish issues with a number of blades lately. Now let me be the first to admit I am very picky. I will find the smallest scratch in the least visible spot. But the issues I had were not hard to spot and really I dont think should have been missed. Not only that but the issues I have had have been on knives between $260-$475 street. At those prices I kinda expect perfection. And I use the quality of the knives they made in the 90s and early 00s as the standard of which I judge them. While I feel they have upped their game in the feature to dollar ratio I feel fit and finish and what qualifies as a factory second has fallen off slightly.

 

[flipe8]

In my opinion, ZT has found a cool niche with the collaborations, but to me, that's not really innovation. I really respect companies like Spyderco that will do a number of collaborations, but also design awesome knives in-house.

 

[McVeyMac]

In my opinion, ZT has found a cool niche with the collaborations, but to me, that's not really innovation. I really respect companies like Spyderco that will do a number of collaborations, but also design awesome knives in-house.

Personally, I have yet to be drawn to Spyderco, and I am not exactly sure why. Part of it was ignorance on my part. I do not have a local knife shop, so I purchase a lot of my stuff online. I prefer U.S. or Western European made knives, and I did not know how to tell country of origin (I do now) on particular models. I think another part of it for me is that there is a total lack of traditional look to their designs. I know that it is exactly this feature that has brought so many people to them. But it sort of puts me off, for some unknown reason. It sounds like I need to get a good U.S. or European made Spydie and use it hard. I know Taiwan makes some of their very high end knives as well, but I think that I am going to avoid these for reasons that we cannot talk about here.

 

[MJF]

Try a PM2...You likely won't be disappointed.

As for ZT's, they make some nice looking knives and I personally like the look of the TI framelock, but I've been spoiled by Spyderco's FFG and would find it hard to be satisfied with some of their thicker blade grinds. I'm also not really sure you could call them an extremely innovative company. It seems that a lot of their knives are pretty similar, they all have the same lock type, there are only three or four different types of steel they're using (although M390 and S110V are pretty great options...both of which have been used by other production companies), and it's mostly flippers (which I do like) thumbstuds (which I personally hate), and AO (which I really have little use for). Don't get me wrong, I'd likely enjoy a ZT if I got one, but they mostly just don't do it for me. I have no real use for a "tactical" blade and there isn't much that I do (IMO) that a utility blade doesn't do better. Even when I was in the Army, the most I ever really did with my folders was open packaging, so an overbuilt tank of a folder wouldn't have done me much good. Just my 02c.

 

[sunandsteel]

Try a PM2...You likely won't be disappointed.

As for ZT's, they make some nice looking knives and I personally like the look of the TI framelock, but I've been spoiled by Spyderco's FFG and would find it hard to be satisfied with some of their thicker blade grinds. I'm also not really sure you could call them an extremely innovative company. It seems that a lot of their knives are pretty similar, they all have the same lock type, there are only three or four different types of steel they're using (although M390 and S110V are pretty great options...both of which have been used by other production companies), and it's mostly flippers (which I do like) thumbstuds (which I personally hate), and AO (which I really have little use for). Don't get me wrong, I'd likely enjoy a ZT if I got one, but they mostly just don't do it for me. I have no real use for a "tactical" blade and there isn't much that I do (IMO) that a utility blade doesn't do better. Even when I was in the Army, the most I ever really did with my folders was open packaging, so an overbuilt tank of a folder wouldn't have done me much good. Just my 02c.

I agree and if I need to go tactical with heavier use it would be a fixed blade over a folder.

 

[goodeyesniper]

Depends on what you're talking about. Spyderco blows ZT out of the water when it comes to tools that are optimized to cut. My humble Stretch will out-slice anything in ZTs lineup by miles and miles. I get that they aren't trying to build refined slicers, but the point still stands. I would say ZT has stepped up their overall quality to a higher level than Spyderco has, but if I had to pick one company to buy from there would be absolutely no competition.

spyderco also blows them away in sheer innovation, collaborating with great knife makers, using the newest steels, huge variety of knives, and constantly pushing the envelope.

zt really has their finger on the pulse of your modern internet knife poster, but I can pretty much guarantee you what their next 18 hit knives will be. "check out the latest 3.5 - 4 inch titanium framelock flipper from ZT!"

and I can also guarantee spyderco has a but more of a clue about the modern knife USER.

Like I said before, I think ZT is a cool company, but they cater to a niche which I'm really not a fan of, and to say they are anywhere in spyderco's league (beside making too thick titanium folders all in the same size and style, they've got that nailed) is obviously biased. Meanwhile I have my titanium frame lock spyderco with cpm m4 steel which IMO blows away anything by zt. but it's a sprint so not sure if that counts

 

[flipe8]

I know Taiwan makes some of their very high end knives as well, but I think that I am going to avoid these for reasons that we cannot talk about here.

There's nothing wrong with deciding you will spend your money elsewhere, but I hope your reasons to avoid the Taichung Spydies has nothing to do with the fairly common ignorance we see on the Forum, because that gets old.

Off topic, but after having all four, I'd pick the Techno over Small Seb, 3"XM-18 or Strider PT.

 

[McVeyMac]

Try a PM2...You likely won't be disappointed.

As for ZT's, they make some nice looking knives and I personally like the look of the TI framelock, but I've been spoiled by Spyderco's FFG and would find it hard to be satisfied with some of their thicker blade grinds. I'm also not really sure you could call them an extremely innovative company. It seems that a lot of their knives are pretty similar, they all have the same lock type, there are only three or four different types of steel they're using (although M390 and S110V are pretty great options...both of which have been used by other production companies), and it's mostly flippers (which I do like) thumbstuds (which I personally hate), and AO (which I really have little use for). Don't get me wrong, I'd likely enjoy a ZT if I got one, but they mostly just don't do it for me. I have no real use for a "tactical" blade and there isn't much that I do (IMO) that a utility blade doesn't do better. Even when I was in the Army, the most I ever really did with my folders was open packaging, so an overbuilt tank of a folder wouldn't have done me much good. Just my 02c.

I agree and if I need to go tactical with heavier use it would be a fixed blade over a folder.

I have been accumulating large and expensive folders over the past 1.5 years. The only reason for this is that in my place of work, they have a policy that prohibits: (Any knife with a blade larger than that of a folding pocket knife; dagger; razor or other cutting instrument, the blade of which is exposed in an automatic...). I recently ordered some smaller fixed blade knives along with some pocket sheaths to carry them in. My solution is to put the fixed blade in a pocket sheath and carry it on my strong side hip pocket. I will then carry the largest folder I have in my weak side front pocket to serve as a measuring device. It will only get used to measure the blade of the fixed blade knife, if ever questioned. To me a fixed blade knife will out perform a folder with the same or similar blade: shape, size, steel or thickness, for any application that I can think of.

 

[Stays Sharp]

Personally, I have yet to be drawn to Spyderco, and I am not exactly sure why. Part of it was ignorance on my part. I do not have a local knife shop, so I purchase a lot of my stuff online. I prefer U.S. or Western European made knives, and I did not know how to tell country of origin (I do now) on particular models. I think another part of it for me is that there is a total lack of traditional look to their designs. I know that it is exactly this feature that has brought so many people to them. But it sort of puts me off, for some unknown reason. It sounds like I need to get a good U.S. or European made Spydie and use it hard. I know Taiwan makes some of their very high end knives as well, but I think that I am going to avoid these for reasons that we cannot talk about here.

For some, it's harder to gravitate to Spyderco's designs but just like when you were new to ZT or other companies, it took time to find your way around but when you do it either clicks or it doesn't but you owe it to yourself to find out and learn more. I've heard that Spyderco's knives all look the same but if you get into them, that is hardly the case. They do push the envelope for lock innovation, blade steels (it's a knife, it cuts... look past embellishments and realize the steel is the heart of the knife), etc. not to mention they came up with putting a pocket clip in a folding knife for example. That is real innovation if there ever was.

Now, regarding overseas made knives, read this: http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?34379-USA-made&highlight= If you are apprehensive on purchasing foreign made knives from Spyderco it's totally understandable. Just so you know though, ZT is a Japanese owned company (a division of KAI). If you insist on made in the US, both companies offer it (and made in China, Japan etc.), but one is American owned, one is not and things can get blurry. So if Taiwan Spydercos aren't for you, cool but now you may understand it a bit more, that the ZT you own has roots overseas in Asia also.

We'll see if the fanboy will start to get defensive again after a string of posts that doesn't go "ZT! yay". This is General discussion on BF, not a ZT sponsored forum.

 

[GronK]

Nasty spats like those in this thread are why we can't have nice things. (Kershaw/ZT Subforum)

I just read through this thread and saw no nasty spats. Considering the hyperbole in the original post I think the doubters have behaved themselves just fine. In the old subforum days an abrasive company moderator would have been all up in the face of anyone with a negative opinion and there would, in fact, have been nasty spats.

 

[KnottyEagle]

spyderco also blows them away in sheer innovation, collaborating with great knife makers, using the newest steels, huge variety of knives, and constantly pushing the envelope.

This doesn't make ANY sense at all. Who came up with assisted opening? Kershaw did. Who came up with composite blades? Kershaw did. To say those aren't innovations is stupidity at its finest. Rick Hinderer, Ernest Emerson, RJ Martin, Todd Rexford, Tim Galyean, Ken Onion, Frank Centofante, etc. Have all collaborated with Kershaw or ZT, some both. New Steels? Kershaw and ZT have always used "super" steels. M390, S110V, Vanax 75, Vanax 35, 3V, SG2, CPM-154, ZDP-189, to name a few.

 

[McVeyMac]

You are absolutely correct Stays Sharp. I think that I have been looking for a sound reason to take closer look at Spyderco. The thing that put me off the most was all of the pages of offerings at some of the online retailers, and not knowing which knives were made where. I was sort of overwhelmed I guess. But I have heard a lot of very good things about them. Thanks for the link. I have some homework to do. And yes, I am aware of the KAI connection and the Bohler steel with the ZT offerings. As I stated above, I like my 0561, but I am underwhelmed due to the factors that I have stated.