ZT 0452 lock up

[craytab]

I haven't tried either knife, and I strongly dislike CRKT due to some bad early knife buying experiences; but I know the IKBS works nicely... if the Eraser is an IKBS model.

It ran on washers, might have even been nylon, don't know. To me it was a perfect detent. Not to strong but strong enough that it just flew out. Much like my 0562cf does. But CRKT just can't consistently execute. The lock bar I did not trust enough to use.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

True with the CRKT. But you want to talk about flimsy lock bar....Mine was horribly thin and almost all the way over. No thumb pressure needed! Too bad. If CRKT could have executed that knife better it would still probably be in production and be a favorite for knife nuts on a budget.

That mirrors my experience pretty much exactly. Great flipper, great design, not so great execution in other areas. I'm glad to see Liong Mah is now putting knives out through Reate as well. I'd actually love to see their take on a high end version of the Eraser.

 

[Sikael]

It ran on washers, might have even been nylon, don't know. To me it was a perfect detent. Not to strong but strong enough that it just flew out. Much like my 0562cf does. But CRKT just can't consistently execute. The lock bar I did not trust enough to use.

My mistake. I thought CRKT used IKBS on all their flippers, but I guess not.

That mirrors my experience pretty much exactly. Great flipper, great design, not so great execution in other areas. I'm glad to see Liong Mah is now putting knives out through Reate as well. I'd actually love to see their take on a high end version of the Eraser.

The Eraser design is an example of why I hate CRKT; they take an great design, then try to make it as cheap and crappy as possible. That's just my opinion, no offense to CRKT fans (they're out there, somewhere).

The one knife of theirs I used occasionally was the Hissatsu folder, with the huge black zytel scales and a thin, sharp little blade (almost 4", not that little). I took out the torsion bar and was shocked by how smooth it was... not just free-dropping, but smooth; the amount of force it took to break the detent fired it open hard. It was almost impossible to not open it fully using the wafer. As is, the assist required more pressure to trigger, and had to be pushed closed. The auto-lawks was annoying, but the liner-lock itself inspired no confidence without it.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

My mistake. I thought CRKT used IKBS on all their flippers, but I guess not.



The Eraser design is an example of why I hate CRKT; they take an great design, then try to make it as cheap and crappy as possible. That's just my opinion, no offense to CRKT fans (they're out there, somewhere).

The one knife of theirs I used occasionally was the Hissatsu folder, with the huge black zytel scales and a thin, sharp little blade (almost 4", not that little). I took out the torsion bar and was shocked by how smooth it was... not just free-dropping, but smooth; the amount of force it took to break the detent fired it open hard. It was almost impossible to not open it fully using the wafer. As is, the assist required more pressure to trigger, and had to be pushed closed. The auto-lawks was annoying, but the liner-lock itself inspired no confidence without it.

CRKT tunes detents as well as anyone in the business. There's a ton of other stuff they get wrong, but I'm almost invariably surprised by the nice, crisp break when I pick up a CRKT and open it.

 

[craytab]

That mirrors my experience pretty much exactly. Great flipper, great design, not so great execution in other areas. I'm glad to see Liong Mah is now putting knives out through Reate as well. I'd actually love to see their take on a high end version of the Eraser.

I would love to see a higher end Eraser as well, not made by CRKT of course.

The Eraser design is an example of why I hate CRKT; they take an great design, then try to make it as cheap and crappy as possible. That's just my opinion, no offense to CRKT fans (they're out there, somewhere).

I feel the exact same way and have said so many times here. I have some of their older stuff and they can put out a good product if the so choose.

The one knife of theirs I used occasionally was the Hissatsu folder, with the huge black zytel scales and a thin, sharp little blade (almost 4", not that little). I took out the torsion bar and was shocked by how smooth it was... not just free-dropping, but smooth; the amount of force it took to break the detent fired it open hard. It was almost impossible to not open it fully using the wafer. As is, the assist required more pressure to trigger, and had to be pushed closed. The auto-lawks was annoying, but the liner-lock itself inspired no confidence without it.

I had the same exact experience with the Hissatsu folder. It was impossible for me to open with the torsion bar. With it removed, it suddenly became the smoothest knife I owned (granted I didn't have as many nicer knives back then).

 

[Sikael]

I would love to see a higher end Eraser as well, not made by CRKT of course.

I feel the exact same way and have said so many times here. I have some of their older stuff and they can put out a good product if the so choose.

I had the same exact experience with the Hissatsu folder. It was impossible for me to open with the torsion bar. With it removed, it suddenly became the smoothest knife I

owned (granted I didn't have as many nicer knives back then).

That was a Taiwanese CRKT, too. Taiwan make some great freakin' Spydercos.

CRKT were a gateway to better knives for me, but I'm still kind of impressed with a fighter called the FE7. It was very nicely ground from O1 tool steel, with a beautifully finished handle. It also had a really well-made, heavy-duty sheath, with three separate MOLLE clip-plates that were on rotating pivots and fully adjustable/removable. The only problem was the handle... the finger grooves were very deep, and seemed designed for a medium sized hand. Not horrible, but not exactly comfortable, or ergonecronomiconic... yeah, that sounds right. I might feel differently now about it if I saw it again, but China did a decent job. Hurray for ethically compromised Communists!

If Reate do a version of the Eraser, that'd be cool; but I fear the soul of the Eraser may have been sold to CRKT for all eternity.

 

[Apec]

I used to think lockbar inserts were wonderful, but I now think they are a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. A well made framelock should last long enough without requiring adjustment.

 

[jill jackson]

I've seen the lock bar move inwards on steel inserts and plain alike. Same with liner locks most will move in and that's fine, under hard use or even pushing the bar inwards. As long as it doesn't go all the way, over stops on the blade lock face angle and isn't hard to unlock.

 

[Ad58]

After reading this looong thread I tested my ZT 0452 CF. Pushing the lockbar hard, it moved just a little bit deeper, let's say 5% only. I used a realistic amount of pressure, a bit more as the knife would see with hard use. I think I would need extreme hard pressure on the lockbar to make it travel to the other side. But that would be a short way to destruct a good knife! So happily I don't have this problem...
Further, my 562 flips like dream; the action is buttersmooth. It is so smooth that gravity is enough to close the blade till it gets sucked in the detent by itself and is closed very secure.
The lock-up is rock-solid no blade play in any direction at all. The knife came as sharp as a laser beam and stays that way.

I am very happy with this knife and will order a 452 CF too!

Just sayin'

 

[brandoak]

AND remember.....If your ZT blade breaks don't fret, it was designed that way.......it exposes new sharper metal to cut with!

If there are 'ZT fanboys' out there who go straight into denial whenever someone brings up a serious problem (I'm sure there are), they're not doing ZT any favors, IMO. Ignoring a defect, even if it's only a small percentage of knives affected, hurts the brand worse in the long run. And obviously, it also means that more people keep on getting defective knives. This IS a defect. If it isn't, I'd be very disappointed with ZT.

 

[GooberBoober]

As it turns out mine has the problem too, serial nr. 27xx if anyone cares.

I didn't even notice it until I started carving on some sticks the other day and the lock got stuck. After a little exploring I noticed I could easily push the lock bar over to the cf scale with my thumb and then I started worrying..

I initially posted about it in the ZT fans thread and was pointed to this thread after that. Holly shit, it isn't even an isolated incident!

I've since read this entire thread and tried tightening up the pivot (and all other screws for that matter). It helped a little, but even if I tighten the pivot to the point where it'll no longer flip open the lock bar is still able to travel almost all the way over to the CF scale and you need to use two hands to get the lock to disengage again.

Seriously disappointed, this is my first expensive folder and I really thought I'd bought myself a good knife. I really didn't expect something like this to happen with an almost 400$ knife (that's what they cost over here) from a company that calls itself "zero tolerance".

Mine should definitely go back to KAI under warranty, but frankly I can be bothered to send it back to the US and risk loosing it in the mail or wait a couple of months and cross my fingers that it gets fixed properly.

Perhaps I'll see it differently when I've cooled down a little, but right now I just want to throw it in a lake...

Thanks to everyone who participated in this thread anyway, you're all swell :thumbup:

 

[mqqn]

Goober - read post 178 and the next few - Jill's knife problem was resolved by a simple adjusting of the pivot.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1304657-ZT-0452-lock-up?p=14963819#post14963819

best

mqqn

 

[The Aflac Duck]

As it turns out mine has the problem too, serial nr. 27xx if anyone cares.

I didn't even notice it until I started carving on some sticks the other day and the lock got stuck. After a little exploring I noticed I could easily push the lock bar over to the cf scale with my thumb and then I started worrying..

I initially posted about it in the ZT fans thread and was pointed to this thread after that. Holly shit, it isn't even an isolated incident!

I've since read this entire thread and tried tightening up the pivot (and all other screws for that matter). It helped a little, but even if I tighten the pivot to the point where it'll no longer flip open the lock bar is still able to travel almost all the way over to the CF scale and you need to use two hands to get the lock to disengage again.

Seriously disappointed, this is my first expensive folder and I really thought I'd bought myself a good knife. I really didn't expect something like this to happen with an almost 400$ knife (that's what they cost over here) from a company that calls itself "zero tolerance".

Mine should definitely go back to KAI under warranty, but frankly I can be bothered to send it back to the US and risk loosing it in the mail or wait a couple of months and cross my fingers that it gets fixed properly.

Perhaps I'll see it differently when I've cooled down a little, but right now I just want to throw it in a lake...

Thanks to everyone who participated in this thread anyway, you're all swell :thumbup:

I have had the same exact problem on 3 different ZT's: 0452, 0562cf, and 0454. I also tried tightening the screws (all of them) and the lockup was a little better, but it was still late and lock-stick was still severe under what I'd consider "normal use". When stuck, my locks also take 2 hands to open. Not good when you're wearing gloves!

 

[sharp_edge]

He clearly said he tried that and the problem remains ..

Edit: oops BB beat me on that

 

[sharp_edge]

I also read this entire thread. I am not an expert on frame lock with steel lockbar insert, but is it possible that the flat contact lock faces rather that faces with an angle/slope are the reason? I tried a frame lock folder that does not have an insert and the lock face is with a slope (not 90 degree), there is no such a problem no matter hpw hard I push the lockbar toward the other side.

On the other hand, a sloped lock face is more easy to cause the lock slip, say, when enough pressure is applied on the spine, correct?

 

[mqqn]

He clearly said he tried that and the problem remains ..

Edit: oops BB beat me on that

Yes, but in my opinion there is a difference between adjusting/tuning the knife and "I tighten the pivot to the point where it'll no longer flip open".

I would have this person send the knife back to the dealer who charged him a $125 markup over MSRP.

I find it interesting that nearly every knife some people buy from one manufacturer has "lock stick", and others can buy literally a hundred knives from the same manufacturer and never experience that problem. I suppose you chalk that up to "stuff happens".

I did have one knife, the Volt 3600, that had a little stick when I first got it, but that eased as the knife was worn in and it did not have a lockbar insert of steel, it was ti on steel.

I also have an AGR Acies which had some lock issues; again a knife with no lockbar insert. I was able to take the knife apart and slightly bend the lockbar towards the inside of the knife, which solved the lockup issue to this day. I don't advocate disassembly unless someone is sure they are mechanically inclined and can be confident they can disassemble and reassemble the knife without problems.

best

mqqn

 

[GooberBoober]

I did a little more testing with the tightened up knife. It seems to hold up in different grips without the lock getting stuck again so far. If it stays that way I guess I can live with it, although I'm still not happy about it.

I can try playing with the pivot some more to see if it'll improve further though, the lock bar still moves over to the wrong side easily when pushing it in deliberately.

Still, I don't think this should happen with a knife in this price range, but it is of course possible I got one that escaped QC's attention.

I'm not going to send it in though, it just adds too much costs to the knife. Besides shipping to the US I'd have to pay a customs fee plus 21% in taxes over the value of the knife and shipping costs when the knife comes back through dutch customs. I'd rather cut my losses now then put another 100 in this knife.

As for our ridiculous knife prices, fair or not, but that's the reality when living in Europe. Many knives cost up to two times of what they cost in the US, it's not a dealer issue.

 

[RevDevil]

AND remember.....If your ZT blade breaks don't fret, it was designed that way.......it exposes new sharper metal to cut with!

Don't start trolling, I won't hesitate to do something about it.
If your forum troll gets infracted and goes away, it makes room for more informative and pleasant discussion.

 

[mqqn]

I did a little more testing with the tightened up knife. It seems to hold up in different grips without the lock getting stuck again so far. If it stays that way I guess I can live with it, although I'm still not happy about it.

I can try playing with the pivot some more to see if it'll improve further though, the lock bar still moves over to the wrong side easily when pushing it in deliberately.

Still, I don't think this should happen with a knife in this price range, but it is of course possible I got one that escaped QC's attention.

I'm not going to send it in though, it just adds too much costs to the knife. Besides shipping to the US I'd have to pay a customs fee plus 21% in taxes over the value of the knife and shipping costs when the knife comes back through dutch customs. I'd rather cut my losses now then put another 100 in this knife.

As for our ridiculous knife prices, fair or not, but that's the reality when living in Europe. Many knives cost up to two times of what they cost in the US, it's not a dealer issue.

That does suck about the markup for our friends overseas. wish it weren't like that.

Glad to hear you are getting some adjustment that is suiting you better; I know I was not very happy when my new Acies had an issue, but after I fiddled around with it I now feel more like it is "mine".

I am confused as to why you would have to pay a tax again on something that you already paid for, but it would not be the first time a government regulation seemed illogical to me.

best regards

mqqn

 

[GooberBoober]

That does suck about the markup for our friends overseas. wish it weren't like that.

Glad to hear you are getting some adjustment that is suiting you better; I know I was not very happy when my new Acies had an issue, but after I fiddled around with it I now feel more like it is "mine".

I am confused as to why you would have to pay a tax again on something that you already paid for, but it would not be the first time a government regulation seemed illogical to me.

best regards

mqqn

Yeah, if our wages were higher accordingly it wouldn't be too bad, but I don't think that's the case.

The thing is, it already felt like mine! I still can't bring myself to put the ZT back in my pocket, it feels tainted somehow now. So back to old faithful it is. I somewhat blame myself for not proper testing the knife sooner though. I've owned and carried it for two months already before I noticed. Normally I can't wait to get a new knife dirty, but this one seemed so solid and nice that I just didn't expect any flaws to surface later on.

Our customs laws (and many others..) don't make sense at all, and frankly I think the customs officers are misinterpreting the rules themselves. I tried to fight it once but to no avail. After a package has gone through customs you basically have to options; pay up or refuse the package so it'll get returned to sender. I found this out when I had to send an electrical device back to the US under warranty a few years ago.

ps: apologies that I didn't reply to every post individually earlier. I always get a bit overwhelmed when there are more than one responses at once & figured I'd just post one general reply instead. I do appreciate everyone's input though!