ZT 200 Or ....

I have been reading Richard Marcinko's books and he talks about using his Emerson to pry things open and pretty much giving it hell. I was just never to much of a Emerson man.
There are levels of prying. It depends on how much force you need to exert in order pop whatever it is open. If a hard use folder couldn’t pry the lid off a wooden crate without failing, I’d be pretty skeptical of its credentials. Prying a steel door open? Maybe not so much.

You can split kindling with a tough folder, without smacking it with a baton, by pushing it into the branch using hand pressure on the spine and then using torque. Again, this should be fine. Trying to split big logs with a dirty great baton - without disengaging the lock as per YouTube - is a really poor idea and is also a totally needless exercise.
 
There are levels of prying. It depends on how much force you need to exert in order pop whatever it is open. If a hard use folder couldn’t pry the lid off a wooden crate without failing, I’d be pretty skeptical of its credentials. Prying a steel door open? Maybe not so much.

You can split kindling with a tough folder, without smacking it with a baton, by pushing it into the branch using hand pressure on the spine and then using torque. Again, this should be fine. Trying to split big logs with a dirty great baton - without disengaging the lock as per YouTube - is a really poor idea and is also a totally needless exercise.
In reality a good multitool fits most of the description for what doc wants his folder to do. Hell, I bet a Leatherman surge even digs better than a folder.
 
In reality a good multitool fits most of the description for what doc wants his folder to do. Hell, I bet a Leatherman surge even digs better than a folder.
Absolutely. To be honest, there’s a lot of stuff you can forage in most environments to use as a make shift shovel. Possibly not in the arctic tundra or in the middle of the Gobi desert. But what would somebody be doing in those places with only a folding knife, other than dying quickly. :D
 
Lock strength as they test it is usually measured in pound*inches or something equivalent (sorry to nitpick), but I wouldn't be surprised if they're similar.
Adamas=1796 or so inlbs
Recon 1=arounds 2000inlbs

Do the math and you will see at 2" from the pivot, it equates to about 800lbs of force.
Trust me, I already had a 3 page topic on this matter on the benchmade forum
 
Benchmade Adamas, Spyderco Tuff, Strider SMF, Hinderer XM-24, are all knives I have personal experience with that I'd say are as overbuilt as the 0200, I do wish I would have grabbed a second one before they disappeared.

The Spyderco Tuff has one major issue with it though. If you look at the lockbar on the Tuff you will notice it is very short. These means the arc that the lockface of the bar will draw as it wears is part of a hypothetically smaller circle. This causes the lockface of the bar to pull away from the tang lockface which leads to lockrock. It tends to be a symptom of very short lockbars.

For what its worth I think the ZT0550 is one of the toughest knives zt ever made.
 
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The company has said that they have never had one sent back because it has been broke. These are hard to find. Anyone good any other suggestions for another knife built this strong? I wish ZT would do another run of these.

Oh before I forget, my Tops/Buck CSAR-T has made every other overbuilt folder (zts, striders, spartan harsey etc) look like an absolute child’s toy. It is a big thick knife though.
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I will say that in terms of locks I don’t believe liner or framelocks are the “strongest” out there. I think it is widely accepted that Cold Steel’s triad lock is the strongest.
 
What hard use? I'm asking for specific uses... The fact I'm getting the run around is odd :confused:

What survival uses? Lost in the woods? Plane crash? Lol Stuck in a building that's on fire??? I'm a fan of tough knives and have been enjoying them before you showed up, but I'm not delusional.

If you care to answer the questions that'd be great.
One use not mentioned is self defense. I'm not interested in arguing whether a knife is a good self-defense option, but people do carry them with self-defense as a potential role the knife might be forced into. In such an instance, a stab that hits bone could be an example of force being exerted onto the spine, causing the lock to fail, and cutting the user.

Obviously using a knife in such a manner is highly unlikely, but it does happen. I know a guy who was attacked and used his Contego to ward off his attacker, very successfully in fact, by stabbing the attacker in the chest and puncturing his lung, hitting rib bones in the process. The Axis lock did not fail. A frame lock might have. He was in a city where a firearm was not an option.
 
One use not mentioned is self defense. I'm not interested in arguing whether a knife is a good self-defense option, but people do carry them with self-defense as a potential role the knife might be forced into. In such an instance, a stab that hits bone could be an example of force being exerted onto the spine, causing the lock to fail, and cutting the user.

Obviously using a knife in such a manner is highly unlikely, but it does happen. I know a guy who was attacked and used his Contego to ward off his attacker, very successfully in fact, by stabbing the attacker in the chest and puncturing his lung, hitting rib bones in the process. The Axis lock did not fail. A frame lock might have. He was in a city where a firearm was not an option.
Have you ever seen a frame lock take a hit on the spine and fail WHILE BEING DEATH GRIPPED? I haven't. I've seen unsupported framelocks fail spine whacks. The design of a frame lock is to be reinforced by the hand. So unless someone is using telekinesis to use a frame lock to defend their lives, a hand likely gripping very tightly while in a panic is strengthening the lock.


I've tried to make frame lock fail while gripping the knife, it did not fail. Of course I wasn't even death gripping the knife, that was just regular old gripping.

In a fight I'd wager grip might be a little tighter ;)
 
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Spine whack an axis lock with no springs in it and it would be more similar to spine whacking a frame lock with no hand support.

With no Omega springs the bar would not remain in the forward position reliably. Of course you could wedge something behind it but you could also come up with a tight rubber band or tie to stop a frame lock from slipping...
 
The funny thing is people complain about being able to force the lock bar on some ZTs all the way over to the other scale. So if you squeeze hard and force the liner deeper and start stabbing... What is the likely hood of slippage?
 
Have you ever seen a frame lock take a hit on the spine and fail WHILE BEING DEATH GRIPPED? I haven't. I've seen unsupported framelocks fail spine whacks. The design of a frame lock is to be reinforced by the hand. So unless someone is using telekinesis to use a frame lock to defend their lives, a hand likely gripping very tightly while in a panic is strengthening the lock.


I've tried to make frame lock fail while gripping the knife, it did not fail. Of course I wasn't even death gripping the knife, that was just regular old gripping.

In a fight I'd wager grip might be a little tighter ;)
Fair point, and I would add, most flippers have flipper tabs that protrude enough to stop the blade as well. Just pointing out a scenario where lock strength is important.
 
Adamas=1796 or so inlbs
Recon 1=arounds 2000inlbs

Do the math and you will see at 2" from the pivot, it equates to about 800lbs of force.
Trust me, I already had a 3 page topic on this matter on the benchmade forum

Right, but we don't compare moment loads with point loads, because you need to include the moment arm info which nobody ever does. Source: am mechanical engineer
 
Ah, ok. Yeah those uses that folders do. Thanks for letting me know about the market by the way, it's crazy it eluded me even though I've had just about every major "hard use" knife lol

You aren't educating anyone, you listed a variety of tasks would destroy any folder including cold steels of which I've likely owned more than you.

I appreciate the laugh by the way.
I'm gratified to make you happy . There are degrees of abuse i.e. how much force and leverage is applied in these extreme tasks . And some folders will perform and sustain less damage than others . Some consumers want the toughest folder available that they can afford . That's no more or less unreasonable than seeking the most frictionless flipper or the tightest tolerances etc . o_O
 
As said earlier,Benchmade Adamas., cold steel recon 1 ,code 4, or voyager are some great choices.
 
Three posts moved to the DA thread.
 
Oh before I forget, my Tops/Buck CSAR-T has made every other overbuilt folder (zts, striders, spartan harsey etc) look like an absolute child’s toy. It is a big thick knife though.
BU095BKSTPa.jpg


I will say that in terms of locks I don’t believe liner or framelocks are the “strongest” out there. I think it is widely accepted that Cold Steel’s triad lock is the strongest.

Those things are ridiculous but damn solid. I don’t know why I bought it but I’ll likely never get rid of it. I think the worst thing about mine is that the pocket clip is super tight and the scale material is rough so it would likely destroy pockets. It’s so big/heavy that the belt sheath is probably the best carry method anyway.

i.ashx


I like the ZT 0200 too.
i.ashx
 
Those things are ridiculous but damn solid. I don’t know why I bought it but I’ll likely never get rid of it. I think the worst thing about mine is that the pocket clip is super tight and the scale material is rough so it would likely destroy pockets. It’s so big/heavy that the belt sheath is probably the best carry method anyway.

i.ashx


I like the ZT 0200 too.
i.ashx

I always thought that the CSAR-T would be the ultimate knife to bring to a construction site.
 
I enjoy when people get their knickers in a twist about cold steel, either cos they have a chip on their shoulder about Lynn or the way they market their products. It doesnt really matter how "overbuilt" you think a ZT or medford or any other brand is because of their thick blade stock, or how thick the liners are, or how much it weighs, once you put a frame lock on it - you add the element of possible failure under stress or accidental mis-use. Frame locks are great and so are other locks, i love my CRK's, spydies etc. But if a knife was to be used in the bush (or any other fantasy scenario you want to think of) the fact is that Cold Steel knives don't endanger your fingers nor do they take damage as easy as other mechanisms. All blades and pivots will snap laterally with enough force, but at least the Tri-ad lock eliminates one major area of failure present on every single other knife brand - the lock. So there's really no debate in my opinion when it comes to a worry free, high value tough folder, Cold Steel pretty much owns that department, and their blades actually cut. You can always argue you'll never use a knife in this way or that, but you can also argue that CRK tolerances mean jack in the real word, my benchmades with side to side play will still last forever even tho they don't have the solid fitment of my CRK's.
 
I enjoy when people get their knickers in a twist about cold steel, either cos they have a chip on their shoulder about Lynn or the way they market their products. It doesnt really matter how "overbuilt" you think a ZT or medford or any other brand is because of their thick blade stock, or how thick the liners are, or how much it weighs, once you put a frame lock on it - you add the element of possible failure under stress or accidental mis-use. Frame locks are great and so are other locks, i love my CRK's, spydies etc. But if a knife was to be used in the bush (or any other fantasy scenario you want to think of) the fact is that Cold Steel knives don't endanger your fingers nor do they take damage as easy as other mechanisms. All blades and pivots will snap laterally with enough force, but at least the Tri-ad lock eliminates one major area of failure present on every single other knife brand - the lock. So there's really no debate in my opinion when it comes to a worry free, high value tough folder, Cold Steel pretty much owns that department, and their blades actually cut. You can always argue you'll never use a knife in this way or that, but you can also argue that CRK tolerances mean jack in the real word, my benchmades with side to side play will still last forever even tho they don't have the solid fitment of my CRK's.
lol.... Amazing insight and opinions. So unique no one has ever read them here before.

The "bush" and other fantasies people come up with make me chuckle. Good luck in the "bush" with a folder and nothing else. How that happens I'll never understand.

When you grow out of the fantasy stage and realize that reality is you won't be surviving in the "bush" with your cold steel you'll see how silly the perfectly up and down weight hang is. Till then, enjoy your imagination; it's entertaining for the rest of us :thumbsup:
 
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