ZT Galyean 0610ST Auto

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Esav Benyamin said:
Arguing from ignorance will always go around in helpless circles.

The Americanized tanto was introduced by the late Bob Lum. Look to his Spyderco folder and fixed blade for his understanding of the blade shape. Cold Steel followed quickly, copying Bob Lum's design, and Ernie Emerson added a chisel grind.

All this talk of kitchen knives and sushi bars is lack of real knowledge rushing to speculation for something negative to say. I submit that Mr. Lum had a comprehensive knowledge of Asian bladecraft to work from.
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That's good enough for me. Thanks Esav.:thumbup:

Cheers,
Jon
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Arguing from ignorance will always go around in helpless circles.

The Americanized tanto was introduced by the late Bob Lum. Look to his Spyderco folder and fixed blade for his understanding of the blade shape. Cold Steel followed quickly, copying Bob Lum's design, and Ernie Emerson added a chisel grind.

All this talk of kitchen knives and sushi bars is lack of real knowledge rushing to speculation for something negative to say. I submit that Mr. Lum had a comprehensive knowledge of Asian bladecraft to work from.
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EXCELLENT!

End of discussion about tanto's. lol

I'm just still excited that Kershaw has an automatic knife now. I can't wait to fire one.
 
I'm looking to get a knife for personal defense and I was wondering if anyone could explain what is described as "Tanto" ??
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Arguing from ignorance will always go around in helpless circles.

The Americanized tanto was introduced by the late Bob Lum. Look to his Spyderco folder and fixed blade for his understanding of the blade shape. Cold Steel followed quickly, copying Bob Lum's design, and Ernie Emerson added a chisel grind.

All this talk of kitchen knives and sushi bars is lack of real knowledge rushing to speculation for something negative to say. I submit that Mr. Lum had a comprehensive knowledge of Asian bladecraft to work from.
Click to expand...

Well, it is also interesting theory. However, as it was stated many times this design has very little if not nothing with tanto. May be back in time it is possible to find some thing like this, however it does not match tanto style as it was known for generations in Japan.

Question is was Bob Lum himself calling this tanto or it was CS idea or Spyderco? I have nothing against this shape (it is great to prepare eel after all), but presenting it as an tanto is just not true (even if somwhere back in time there are few tantos with this shape). It will be nice to track down who actually started this talks about knives made out of broken samurai swords etc... I will be surprised if it is Spyderco, but who knows.

Now Kiridashi is not "basic knife" but blade for carpenter more like special chisel then knife - something in between, I pick three of them in Yokohama in department store (Tokyu Hands). I rather call Higonokami as a basic knife. As I understand knife is Hocho in Japanese.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
Now Kiridashi is not "basic knife" but blade for carpenter more like special chisel then knife - something in between, I pick three of them in Yokohama in department store (Tokyu Hands). I rather call Higonokami as a basic knife. As I understand knife is Hocho in Japanese.

Thanks, Vassili.
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I think you misread, or misunderstood what I posted, I said a kiridashi was a basic UTILITY knife, not a basic knife. In Japan this would be a carpenter's utility knife, basically what you said.

Back to the topic, the 0610st, this will be the first of the two ZT autos, if you don't like the blade, there will be the G&G Hawk designed ZT 0650st coming along a little later. This may be more to the liking of those that are not enamored of the 0610st.

From what people have said that have seen the protos, either at SHOT or Blade, both knives look like they are going to be huge hits.

Thomas, is there any chance you can post a picture of the 0610st with an 0200 or a Spec Bump?
 
Kiridashi is something between chisel and knife, some of them require handle to be added some have big tang to hold, but this is not a knife (hocho) this is kiridashi. With blade less then an 1" it is not basic utiliti knife.

I think Kershaw can better educate us being part of Japanese KAI company. I think they actually can introduce true Japanese knife culture to US, instead of joining this tanto thing. There are quite a bit things in Japan which can be adopted. Super steels (stainless high speed steels, matrix high speed steels...), as well as traditional Shirogami and Aogamy, not really presented here, laminated blades, suminogashi, even this Kiridashi made by Kershaw, now also high angle convex edges - common in Japan for utility knives etc...

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Sooooooo, anyway, thanks again Thomas for giving us a peek at the new Tim Gaylean designed ZT auto. Love the looks of this new model. Should be a hit with both collectors and users alike. Very sleek, but looks TOUGH!:thumbup:
Kershaw and ZT do it again.:)

...And that, boys and girls, is how you put the train back on it's tracks.

Cheers,
Jonny
 
Vassilli, I can understand and appreciate your appreciation of traditional Japanese knife design, however, the purpose of this thread is to discuss and perhaps get more information about the ZT 0610st which is due to ship shortly. I have done what I could to indulge you in discussing tanto design as it relates to this particular knife, but we keep diverging from the ZT in question. Could we please direct any further posts unrelated to this knife (or even the 0650st) to a more appropriate forum. To do otherwise would be unfair to those coming to this thread to get more information about the knife.

Apologies to all that have been distracted by this sidetrack.

Will someone else please comment or ask a question about the 0610st, I know it's Friday at the Kershaw forum, but...:rolleyes:

Whoops... crossed posts. thanks Jonny!
 
kneedeep said:
Vassilli, I can understand and appreciate your appreciation of traditional Japanese knife design, however, the purpose of this thread is to discuss and perhaps get more information about the ZT 0610st which is due to ship shortly. I have done what I could to indulge you in discussing tanto design as it relates to this particular knife, but we keep diverging from the ZT in question. Could we please direct any further posts unrelated to this knife (or even the 0650st) to a more appropriate forum. To do otherwise would be unfair to those coming to this thread to get more information about the knife.

Apologies to all that have been distracted by this sidetrack.

Will someone else please comment or ask a question about the 0610st, I know it's Friday at the Kershaw forum, but...:rolleyes:

Whoops... crossed posts. thanks Jonny!
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Any time, KD. It's my pleasure;)
 
Actually I was just rereading the OP and I realized Thomas said that the first ones had shipped, that was back on the 18th.

Anybody having luck finding one or a place that is due to get them?

Also, in case it got buried in the earlier morass, Thomas if you get a chance can you post a pic with the 0610, a 0200 and a Spec Bump? (and any others you want to throw in for comparison)
 
Cougar Allen said:
OregonEdge, please read Esav Benyamin's post above. If you still have questions after that please take them to General Knife Discussion; it really doesn't belong in this thread.
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someone reported me because they took my lame joke seriously? The point is that most of this thread belongs under General Knife Discussion. The knife that started this thread stands on it's own.... I want one, regardless of the origins of the term Tanto.
 
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I see that Kershaw subforum developed some fan-boys club, which dominates discussions, making it really hard to discuss most of the thing, except if it is something like "Oh! How gorgeous this pretty knife is... Where I can buy more...". I guess sooner or later any manufacturer forum evolves to something like this, some kind of place for aggressive cult like for true believers only. Many went this way, if not all...

Too bad, but I guess nothing we can do to return it to early days, when it was OK to exchange ideas and have some dialog to disagree and give some suggestions without someone telling you to behave in the presence of superior beings...

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
I see that Kershaw subforum developed some fan-boys club, which dominates discussions, making it really hard to discuss most of the thing, except if it is something like "Oh! How gorgeous this pretty knife is... Where I can buy more...". I guess sooner or later any manufacturer forum evolves to something like this, some kind of place for aggressive cult like for true believers only. Many went this way, if not all...

Too bad, but I guess nothing we can do to return it to early days, when it was OK to exchange ideas and have some dialog to disagree and give some suggestions without someone telling you to behave in the presence of superior beings...

Thanks, Vassili.
Click to expand...

with all due respect we have discussions and disagree all the time. we just would prefer them to be professional and refrain from becoming rant fests or personal attacks. i for one would welcome your opinions and would like to engage in discussions. but no one likes to feel like their opinions are worthless and they are stupid or ignorant. other words to express lack of knowledge exist that are less offensive to people. you seem to have a great deal of knowledge stored up, please don't refrain from sharing that knowledge with us. just be respectful to those who don't know what you do.

thank you
 
I think we can still exchange idea's here vassili. This particular thread may not be the best example of that I'm afraid. Although if you filter a few threads there is some content.

I hear what your point is concerning the blade shape vassili, but as a manufacturer we have to understand the consumer, along with their wants and desires. The 1670TBLK by Ken Onion continues to dominate in our Top 10 month after month. In this "tactical market black finishes and combo edges always sell the best.
http://www.kershawknives.com/productdetails.php?id=85

The RJ Martin Tanto Groove is another that has strong sales.
http://www.kershawknives.com/productdetails.php?id=429

Neither of these Kershaw's are "traditional", but are accepted blade shapes with the American consumer and knife community. As mentioned in an earlier thread, Bob Lum in the 80's brought forth a rendition of the Tanto, and it caught fire. The Emerson chisle ground was lightning. So the American Tanto is valid, at least in my eyes, and isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Heck it seems blade shapes in general have been modified in one way or another over the years. They can bring forth diversity, a new look, and at the same time can be practical outside of the original design.

I do have to say that the Random Task is one of the most versatile blade shapes for some of my cutting tasks. Now where the "reverse" Tanto falls into with this discussion may bring forth some additional posts.

I have no doubt that this Galyean Auto will be successful, and it's blade shape one of the reasons for that success. There are a new genre of blade shapes on the market vassili, and there will be times when we default to them.
 
I've been known to just say what's on my mind (against the grain), and it usually ends up the same way. If you feel strongly about what what you want to say and you feel it's valid... then say it. But I've found it's better not to go back and forth after at that point. It's a hard battle to win.



nozh2002 said:
I see that Kershaw subforum developed some fan-boys club, which dominates discussions, making it really hard to discuss most of the thing, except if it is something like "Oh! How gorgeous this pretty knife is... Where I can buy more...". I guess sooner or later any manufacturer forum evolves to something like this, some kind of place for aggressive cult like for true believers only. Many went this way, if not all...

Too bad, but I guess nothing we can do to return it to early days, when it was OK to exchange ideas and have some dialog to disagree and give some suggestions without someone telling you to behave in the presence of superior beings...

Thanks, Vassili.
Click to expand...
 
Thomas W said:
I think we can still exchange idea's here vassili. This particular thread may not be the best example of that I'm afraid. Although if you filter a few threads there is some content.

I hear what your point is concerning the blade shape vassili, but as a manufacturer we have to understand the consumer, along with their wants and desires. The 1670TBLK by Ken Onion continues to dominate in our Top 10 month after month. In this "tactical market black finishes and combo edges always sell the best.
http://www.kershawknives.com/productdetails.php?id=85

The RJ Martin Tanto Groove is another that has strong sales.
http://www.kershawknives.com/productdetails.php?id=429

Neither of these Kershaw's are "traditional", but are accepted blade shapes with the American consumer and knife community. As mentioned in an earlier thread, Bob Lum in the 80's brought forth a rendition of the Tanto, and it caught fire. The Emerson chisle ground was lightning. So the American Tanto is valid, at least in my eyes, and isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Heck it seems blade shapes in general have been modified in one way or another over the years. They can bring forth diversity, a new look, and at the same time can be practical outside of the original design.

I do have to say that the Random Task is one of the most versatile blade shapes for some of my cutting tasks. Now where the "reverse" Tanto falls into with this discussion may bring forth some additional posts.

I have no doubt that this Galyean Auto will be successful, and it's blade shape one of the reasons for that success. There are a new genre of blade shapes on the market vassili, and there will be times when we default to them.
Click to expand...

Well, yes, I just like to make a point to the people who have too much passion and enthusiasm for Kershaw and not too much knowledge to be less aggressive, because ultimately I also have same passion and enthusiasm for Kershaw for quite a bit of time...

Yes, as I sad, Tanto is now more real then real Tan-To and demanded for this reason in tactical market - I just think it will be fair to supply it with some disclosure what the real tanto is may be. Again this is amaizing marketing fenomen. And it's reflection on "Reverse Tanto" is also quite interesting, because this is actually real authentic Japanese blade point they use for generations - exactly Higonokami:

Higonokami-06.jpg


But to introduce it in US best way to market it - call it reverse Tanto...

I am wondering BTW if thous guys from Mika City can produce top grade steel blade with hamon for $15 may be you can do same - like Random task with Shirogami and hamon?

Thanks, Vassili.

P.S. Not for $15 but with hamon and Shirogami...
 
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