ZT Quality Control...

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kershawguy said:
OP, I guess you should have purchased from Me and this would have been over within a couple of days of you finding an issue and all this drama could have been avoided. Occasionally QC misses one, and I have not seen many. I would have exchanged the knife right away for you and that is what Kershaw would like their dealers to do, because we the dealers are partners with Kershaw. Their customer service is unequalled, and mine is not bad either.

Dave
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I just received my 0801 from you 15 minutes ago. Perfect specimen and flips like a dream. Arrived in two days and you offered the best price on the net. So yeah, no complaints.

Caleb
 
As a really big fan of ZT It does sadden me to admit that lately I do feel as if their QC has fallen a bit. IMHO they still make a great product and they still have the absolute best warranty of any company in the business but I have been getting A LOT more knives that I find unacceptable out of the box. And we are talking a few models that have a street price of $300-450. A little more disconcerting is me being told I may simply be expecting too much from a production knife.

Mind you I have always been picky about my knives. You could say obsessive would be a better word to use. But I was actually pickier ten or fifteen years ago when I first got into KAI products. Yet Im finding more issues now than I ever have. My first really expensive Kai Products were the offset, titanium bumps and other higher end Kershaws from a few years back. Those knives were stunning with no finish flaws to be seen. I am finding their finishes getting simpler yet the quality of those finishes to be dropping. And I have been experiencing a lot of inconsistencies with lockup, centering and detent work. The good news is they still have a great warranty and on their lower cost offerings usually can straighten out a knife is short order. I will say though that I am less inclined to buy their higher end models or models that I know will be either discontinued or limited edition as there is very little if any parts available to service the knives. And when a knife is discontinued you can forget about it. I think KAI does great things. And I think they are an awesome company. But I have never believed in fluffing a companies pillow and/or kissing their rear. I personally feel that they have exchanged a little fit, finish and QC for product diversity and features. I admire that they are trying to keep prices down and remain producing the majority of their products in the USA. But for me and the hard financial times I face on a day to day basis its very very hard to justify a $300+ purchase on a knife period. But it makes even less sense when it has a blade that is off center, scratched (not those from the stonewashing process) and doesnt actually flip without wrist action. Then I will buy 2 or three more of the same exact model and each one of those knives has its own issues not previously mentioned. I would like to believe that I just have extremely bad luck but my experiences are occuring no matter what reliable dealer I buy from. Heck in some cases the knives came straight from KAI.

I hate to say it but when I spend that kind of money, yes I do expect better fit and finish than a $100 or sub $100 folder. I think the worst of it all though Is that I feel like I'm not allowed to express my discontent at all whether it be disgruntled workers or fans of the brand getting upset any time an issue is brought into public eye. On one hand I understand not wanting to create an undeserved reputation of lowering quality. But just when is a reputation deserved or undeserved? Why should consumers have to keep quiet about lower standards? The biggest excuse I hear is "give them a chance to make it right before calling them out in public" Some feel it isnt fair to let quality control issues be known unless you have tried and failed to have the knife straightened out. Me? I think that isnt right. People should be able to say, "Hey, I bought a knife from this brand and it has issues" Why? because warranty work and initial production and quality control are two completely different areas. And it shouldnt be up to a companies warranty department to fix what QC isnt doing. And I feel consumers have the right to know if quality is slipping. Some people including me dont want to have to buy a knife like they are buying a lottery ticket and send it in for warranty work or replacement if it doesnt meet expectations. A product should be right the first time. To me to ask customers to shut up as a long as the issue is corrected is kinda like asking a customer to cover up and lie for the company. Sure, there is the occasional idiot who it is obvious shouldnt be playing with knives and is evident their problem is total user error. But that isnt always the case. My feelings are that many collectors take things to heart too much. And they take criticism too personally when they really dont have a dog in the fight. I understand passion and devotion but I have little respect for blind faith. I believe in calling things like I see them feelings be damned. I feel its a disservice to collectors and companies alike to defend a company just because I am a fan of its products. IMHO the best friends are the ones that will call you on your BS. And I think you could apply that in nearly all avenues in life. Be honest, even if it hurts. Its the only way to show a person or a company that something is or isnt acceptable. And no one can correct their wrongs unless they are pointed out. Now the real question is why is it hard for some to admit that they are wrong, ever.
 
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chester22 said:
It just seem like you wouldn't be pleased no matter how it was sent back. People are way to anal about knives these days. All they do is complain about them and never use them. Why I rarely visit this place anymore.

And yes I'm a ZT fanatic.
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I think the OP has a valid point. I don't think that knife should have left the factory that way, and he has reason to complain.

He was pushing the flipper all the way out, and could easily close it anyway. Unacceptable.

I really like my ZT knives, but they need to do a better job of QC. I was going to buy a new 0560 in a knife store, it was already opened and neither myself nor the owner could close the knife. Well-documented failure to carburize the Ti properly.
Again, unacceptable. He had to send it back, and I had to wait for the new one to arrive.

Luckily, it was perfect. Closed easily, great early but stable lockup and perfectly centered blade. And I paid more for it than I should have, but I got to inspect it first. And I love it.

ZT really needs to hire a new QC manager IMO. if I lived closer I'd relentlessly apply for the position and I guarantee things would improve...unless upper management just didn't care, then I'd quit.
 
And my next ZT will be from Kershawguy. No hassle and documented great customer service. Sorted!
 
PURPLEDC said:
As a really big fan of ZT It does sadden me to admit that lately I do feel as if their QC has fallen a bit. IMHO they still make a great product and they still have the absolute best warranty of any company in the business but I have been getting A LOT more knives that I find unacceptable out of the box. And we are talking a few models that have a street price of $300-450. A little more disconcerting is me being told I may simply be expecting too much from a production knife.

Mind you I have always been picky about my knives. You could say obsessive would be a better word to use. But I was actually pickier ten or fifteen years ago when I first got into KAI products. Yet Im finding more issues now than I ever have. My first really expensive Kai Products were the offset, titanium bumps and other higher end Kershaws from a few years back. Those knives were stunning with no finish flaws to be seen. I am finding their finishes getting simpler yet the quality of those finishes to be dropping. And I have been experiencing a lot of inconsistencies with lockup, centering and detent work. The good news is they still have a great warranty and on their lower cost offerings usually can straighten out a knife is short order. I will say though that I am less inclined to buy their higher end models or models that I know will be either discontinued or limited edition as there is very little if any parts available to service the knives. And when a knife is discontinued you can forget about it. I think KAI does great things. And I think they are an awesome company. But I have never believed in fluffing a companies pillow and/or kissing their rear. I personally feel that they have exchanged a little fit, finish and QC for product diversity and features. I admire that they are trying to keep prices down and remain producing the majority of their products in the USA. But for me and the hard financial times I face on a day to day basis its very very hard to justify a $300+ purchase on a knife period. But it makes even less sense when it has a blade that is off center, scratched (not those from the stonewashing process) and doesnt actually flip without wrist action. Then I will buy 2 or three more of the same exact model and each one of those knives has its own issues not previously mentioned. I would like to believe that I just have extremely bad luck but my experiences are occuring no matter what reliable dealer I buy from. Heck in some cases the knives came straight from KAI.

I hate to say it but when I spend that kind of money, yes I do expect better fit and finish than a $100 or sub $100 folder. I think the worst of it all though Is that I feel like I'm not allowed to express my discontent at all whether it be disgruntled workers or fans of the brand getting upset any time an issue is brought into public eye. On one hand I understand not wanting to create an undeserved reputation of lowering quality. But just when is a reputation deserved or undeserved? Why should consumers have to keep quiet about lower standards? The biggest excuse I hear is "give them a chance to make it right before calling them out in public" Some feel it isnt fair to let quality control issues be known unless you have tried and failed to have the knife straightened out. Me? I think that isnt right. People should be able to say, "Hey, I bought a knife from this brand and it has issues" Why? because warranty work and initial production and quality control are two completely different areas. And it shouldnt be up to a companies warranty department to fix what QC isnt doing. And I feel consumers have the right to know if quality is slipping. Some people including me dont want to have to buy a knife like they are buying a lottery ticket and send it in for warranty work or replacement if it doesnt meet expectations. A product should be right the first time. To me to ask customers to shut up as a long as the issue is corrected is kinda like asking a customer to cover up and lie for the company. Sure, there is the occasional idiot who it is obvious shouldnt be playing with knives and is evident their problem is total user error. But that isnt always the case. My feelings are that many collectors take things to heart too much. And they take criticism too personally when they really dont have a dog in the fight. I understand passion and devotion but I have little respect for blind faith. I believe in calling things like I see them feelings be damned. I feel its a disservice to collectors and companies alike to defend a company just because I am a fan of its products. IMHO the best friends are the ones that will call you on your BS. And I think you could apply that in nearly all avenues in life. Be honest, even if it hurts. Its the only way to show a person or a company that something is or isnt acceptable. And no one can correct their wrongs unless they are pointed out. Now the real question is why is it hard for some to admit that they are wrong, ever.
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Wow that was long winded but, well put and on point. Exactly my thoughts on the subject. This isn't the first time I've had to send a knife in to ZT and it really is disappointing to spend this much on a knife that has so much going for it and when you get it's sub par.
 
Only those of us that have never made an error should judge others for their mistakes, I guess that means we shouldn't judge others. Kershaw does a fantastic job of QC, I have seen thousands of blems over the years that I would have never rejected, they are very picky about what goes out retail. When one does make it by them, lookout , because there will always be someone there to take them to the mat, even though they have several other knives from the same manufacturer without any problems. Dealers are supposed to take care of you and that includes exchanging a defective knife for a non defective one, Dealers can then let Kershaw take care of them on warranty, it should always be this way on new stuff.
 
PURPLEDC said:
As a really big fan of ZT It does sadden me to admit that lately I do feel as if their QC has fallen a bit. IMHO they still make a great product and they still have the absolute best warranty of any company in the business but I have been getting A LOT more knives that I find unacceptable out of the box. And we are talking a few models that have a street price of $300-450. A little more disconcerting is me being told I may simply be expecting too much from a production knife.

Mind you I have always been picky about my knives. You could say obsessive would be a better word to use. But I was actually pickier ten or fifteen years ago when I first got into KAI products. Yet Im finding more issues now than I ever have. My first really expensive Kai Products were the offset, titanium bumps and other higher end Kershaws from a few years back. Those knives were stunning with no finish flaws to be seen. I am finding their finishes getting simpler yet the quality of those finishes to be dropping. And I have been experiencing a lot of inconsistencies with lockup, centering and detent work. The good news is they still have a great warranty and on their lower cost offerings usually can straighten out a knife is short order. I will say though that I am less inclined to buy their higher end models or models that I know will be either discontinued or limited edition as there is very little if any parts available to service the knives. And when a knife is discontinued you can forget about it. I think KAI does great things. And I think they are an awesome company. But I have never believed in fluffing a companies pillow and/or kissing their rear. I personally feel that they have exchanged a little fit, finish and QC for product diversity and features. I admire that they are trying to keep prices down and remain producing the majority of their products in the USA. But for me and the hard financial times I face on a day to day basis its very very hard to justify a $300+ purchase on a knife period. But it makes even less sense when it has a blade that is off center, scratched (not those from the stonewashing process) and doesnt actually flip without wrist action. Then I will buy 2 or three more of the same exact model and each one of those knives has its own issues not previously mentioned. I would like to believe that I just have extremely bad luck but my experiences are occuring no matter what reliable dealer I buy from. Heck in some cases the knives came straight from KAI.

I hate to say it but when I spend that kind of money, yes I do expect better fit and finish than a $100 or sub $100 folder. I think the worst of it all though Is that I feel like I'm not allowed to express my discontent at all whether it be disgruntled workers or fans of the brand getting upset any time an issue is brought into public eye. On one hand I understand not wanting to create an undeserved reputation of lowering quality. But just when is a reputation deserved or undeserved? Why should consumers have to keep quiet about lower standards? The biggest excuse I hear is "give them a chance to make it right before calling them out in public" Some feel it isnt fair to let quality control issues be known unless you have tried and failed to have the knife straightened out. Me? I think that isnt right. People should be able to say, "Hey, I bought a knife from this brand and it has issues" Why? because warranty work and initial production and quality control are two completely different areas. And it shouldnt be up to a companies warranty department to fix what QC isnt doing. And I feel consumers have the right to know if quality is slipping. Some people including me dont want to have to buy a knife like they are buying a lottery ticket and send it in for warranty work or replacement if it doesnt meet expectations. A product should be right the first time. To me to ask customers to shut up as a long as the issue is corrected is kinda like asking a customer to cover up and lie for the company. Sure, there is the occasional idiot who it is obvious shouldnt be playing with knives and is evident their problem is total user error. But that isnt always the case. My feelings are that many collectors take things to heart too much. And they take criticism too personally when they really dont have a dog in the fight. I understand passion and devotion but I have little respect for blind faith. I believe in calling things like I see them feelings be damned. I feel its a disservice to collectors and companies alike to defend a company just because I am a fan of its products. IMHO the best friends are the ones that will call you on your BS. And I think you could apply that in nearly all avenues in life. Be honest, even if it hurts. Its the only way to show a person or a company that something is or isnt acceptable. And no one can correct their wrongs unless they are pointed out. Now the real question is why is it hard for some to admit that they are wrong, ever.
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And where is your data on QC falling, because I am not seeing it and I see much more of their product than you ever will, you can't just say "I FEEL that the QC is falling" , Now I say BS to that. I had more Titanium bumps returned to me than any other model to date.
 
PURPLEDC said:
As a really big fan of ZT It does sadden me to admit that lately I do feel as if their QC has fallen a bit. IMHO they still make a great product and they still have the absolute best warranty of any company in the business but I have been getting A LOT more knives that I find unacceptable out of the box. And we are talking a few models that have a street price of $300-450. A little more disconcerting is me being told I may simply be expecting too much from a production knife.

Mind you I have always been picky about my knives. You could say obsessive would be a better word to use. But I was actually pickier ten or fifteen years ago when I first got into KAI products. Yet Im finding more issues now than I ever have. My first really expensive Kai Products were the offset, titanium bumps and other higher end Kershaws from a few years back. Those knives were stunning with no finish flaws to be seen. I am finding their finishes getting simpler yet the quality of those finishes to be dropping. And I have been experiencing a lot of inconsistencies with lockup, centering and detent work. The good news is they still have a great warranty and on their lower cost offerings usually can straighten out a knife is short order. I will say though that I am less inclined to buy their higher end models or models that I know will be either discontinued or limited edition as there is very little if any parts available to service the knives. And when a knife is discontinued you can forget about it. I think KAI does great things. And I think they are an awesome company. But I have never believed in fluffing a companies pillow and/or kissing their rear. I personally feel that they have exchanged a little fit, finish and QC for product diversity and features. I admire that they are trying to keep prices down and remain producing the majority of their products in the USA. But for me and the hard financial times I face on a day to day basis its very very hard to justify a $300+ purchase on a knife period. But it makes even less sense when it has a blade that is off center, scratched (not those from the stonewashing process) and doesnt actually flip without wrist action. Then I will buy 2 or three more of the same exact model and each one of those knives has its own issues not previously mentioned. I would like to believe that I just have extremely bad luck but my experiences are occuring no matter what reliable dealer I buy from. Heck in some cases the knives came straight from KAI.

I hate to say it but when I spend that kind of money, yes I do expect better fit and finish than a $100 or sub $100 folder. I think the worst of it all though Is that I feel like I'm not allowed to express my discontent at all whether it be disgruntled workers or fans of the brand getting upset any time an issue is brought into public eye. On one hand I understand not wanting to create an undeserved reputation of lowering quality. But just when is a reputation deserved or undeserved? Why should consumers have to keep quiet about lower standards? The biggest excuse I hear is "give them a chance to make it right before calling them out in public" Some feel it isnt fair to let quality control issues be known unless you have tried and failed to have the knife straightened out. Me? I think that isnt right. People should be able to say, "Hey, I bought a knife from this brand and it has issues" Why? because warranty work and initial production and quality control are two completely different areas. And it shouldnt be up to a companies warranty department to fix what QC isnt doing. And I feel consumers have the right to know if quality is slipping. Some people including me dont want to have to buy a knife like they are buying a lottery ticket and send it in for warranty work or replacement if it doesnt meet expectations. A product should be right the first time. To me to ask customers to shut up as a long as the issue is corrected is kinda like asking a customer to cover up and lie for the company. Sure, there is the occasional idiot who it is obvious shouldnt be playing with knives and is evident their problem is total user error. But that isnt always the case. My feelings are that many collectors take things to heart too much. And they take criticism too personally when they really dont have a dog in the fight. I understand passion and devotion but I have little respect for blind faith. I believe in calling things like I see them feelings be damned. I feel its a disservice to collectors and companies alike to defend a company just because I am a fan of its products. IMHO the best friends are the ones that will call you on your BS. And I think you could apply that in nearly all avenues in life. Be honest, even if it hurts. Its the only way to show a person or a company that something is or isnt acceptable. And no one can correct their wrongs unless they are pointed out. Now the real question is why is it hard for some to admit that they are wrong, ever.
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I tend to agree with most of your post except the "has fallen a bit" and respect and understand how you feel...Everyone is entitled to an opinion and everyone has one.
 
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I'll go further than that...

I registered with this site a few weeks ago. I've been reading it, however, for years.

I do not own a ZT. There are a few I'd LIKE to own but don't, for reasons below. And I really have no canine in this tussle. I just spent an hour studying this thread, mainly because I've observed something peculiar for a while now:

For a long time I have noticed a disproportionate number of threads beginning, "Problem with ZT..." From so many torsion bar problems to sloppy/bad actions, etc. Far more than any other single brand. I believe it to be true because I've been noticing it for a long time and it had become ingrained--'Man, this ZT place has some problems.' I even consciously watched for months to see if maybe I was imagining it. No.

I would have purchased a few ZT's long ago had I not picked up on this. I can wait because there are too many other good knives out there to acquire in the meantime, which I do. I will not be buying a ZT until I see some resolution of this or admission by the company that they need to do better.

The guy who started this thread has a legitimate gripe. Some of the ZT defenders--and they are--have offered some hilarious rationalizations of the issue. I especially like the ones who say, "So it was a little loose. Tighten it," or "Just tighten the pivot and maybe the blade will center," and "Just because blah blah doesn't mean blah blah..."

C'mon. I spend that kind of money on someone's knife it better arrive centered, it better arrive working smoothly and it better arrive sharp. it better arrive perfect. Anything else is shoddy. And when it's coming back from repair in the first place and it's still not right...?? SHODDY-ER.

Sure, now and then there are errors. Not to the extent of the disproportionate numbers of ZT malfunctions, problems and failures I read on the boards around here.

If I'm going to wade through all the greatness propaganda on every company's web page and hear how manna will fall from the sky if I buy their knife just to reach the knife's page, they better deliver what they say.

And for those who would say, "It's only because so many people own ZT's that problems show up more here...": Stop.

ZT has a problem in the kitchen.
 
Knivery said:
Sure, now and then there are errors. Not to the extent of the disproportionate numbers of ZT malfunctions, problems and failures I read on the boards around here.
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Talking to dealer that has hundreds of ZT as well as other common knife brands going in out and out their doors every month about what rough % have issues would be far more scientific than reading complaint threads on a forum. I'm not saying that ZT doesn't have problems, I'm just saying none of us really have enough knowledge here to be bashing or defending a company QC standards.
 
These are maybe 4-5 knives out of thousands. In the long run there QC is great. You just never see people posting about every good knife they receive only the bad ones. Show me one company with no faults. Especially on the scale ZT and KAI are doing it.

No one is perfect as Dave Said. But how they handle there mistakes should be how they should be seen. And from my experiences they've gone above and beyond for alot of folks. And are some of the nicest people to talk to. One of the few places I'd rather call then email.
 
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I own 1 ZT. It's off center and the blade is unevenly ground. Not the bevel, the blade. Also the pivot would work itself loose after a few days of use so I had to loctite it. Not exactly a real winner. I see a lot of complaints about ZT and a lot of effort to make people stop posting complaints. If a new knife has issues that's a legitimate topic for a thread. The warranty department performing warranty service is a separate topic.
 
Random Dan said:
Talking to dealer that has hundreds of ZT as well as other common knife brands going in out and out their doors every month about what rough % have issues would be far more scientific than reading complaint threads on a forum. I'm not saying that ZT doesn't have problems, I'm just saying none of us really have enough knowledge here to be bashing or defending a company QC standards.
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I gain a lot of knowledge here, Dan. Including the fact that an inordinate amount of ZT knives don't ship working like they should.

I'm sure the ones that work are wonderful.
 
kershawguy said:
Only those of us that have never made an error should judge others for their mistakes, I guess that means we shouldn't judge others. Kershaw does a fantastic job of QC, I have seen thousands of blems over the years that I would have never rejected, they are very picky about what goes out retail. When one does make it by them, lookout , because there will always be someone there to take them to the mat, even though they have several other knives from the same manufacturer without any problems. Dealers are supposed to take care of you and that includes exchanging a defective knife for a non defective one, Dealers can then let Kershaw take care of them on warranty, it should always be this way on new stuff.
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I'll ask for one of those blems you never would have rejected when I order my first ZT from you. Good to know that.
 
What an ugly thread this has become.
I dont think it should matter what kind of experience someone else has had as far as getting a dud. I will not let somebody's bad luck, or lack of being able to adjust a new knife hold me back from buying a design that I may love. Perhaps I have just been lucky.
It happens with every brand. Maybe ZT just makes that many more knives than other companies do and that plays a factor in the complaint ratio.
Every company with screw up here and there. Would I let the issues ive seen slip through if I were in charge of QC. Heck no.
But do not be afraid to get one because of horror stories. There are 1000 perfect knives for every one of these duds.
 
That's right, no one is perfect. ZT is an awesome brand that makes high quality knives that they back with a class leading warranty. Some lemons may fall through the cracks, even some returned to them may come back with a loose screw... But as a whole, we shouldn't lose sight of the positives that vastly outweigh the negatives which by the way are present in any company...Lemons and human error. With the bar so high that they set for themselves... It is NOT unnecessary whining to expect a centered blade and an ideal lock-up, good F&F to name a few. I bet ZT reps themselves will tell you that that's not what they want YOU the end user to have. They have high standards for themselves, I mean come on! Look at their knives!

What I do think though is that customers/forum members here should be FREE to ask questions and share their experiences good or bad without GETTING SLAMMED by "fans" who honestly are a detriment to the brand with the way they treat people around here. It isn't about being sensitive, it's about these fans throwing negativity which comes right back to themselves AND the company. Just because someone shares a negative experience doesn't automatically mean they are bashing the brand. Exceptions do occur as I understand that there are trolls just to hate but the truth finds a way to come out.

Shout out to Dave, he offers an excellent service... From shipping times to communication and price, he has it all. I even returned a Blur blem that wasn't to my liking and he took care of it no questions asked...I think he even sent me a return mailer for it!
 
Im exhausted. I also am 100% honest about knives I love even when it comes to flaws. That is why some value my opinion. I hide nothing. And have had my share of post about improvements a few ZT knives could use along with other companies that I have respect for. That was the least important part of my post. So, are you just being smart here. I could make serious complaints about the hundreds of production knives I work on. What do you happen to carry and trust since you are not willing to get a ZT since you like to follow others opinions?
I think I made the initial mistake by posting into this thread, but heh. It is somewhat interesting with all of the very strong opinions.

Knivery said:
BellaBlades said:
Maybe ZT just makes that many more knives than other companies do and that plays a factor in the complaint ratio.

KNEW someone would say that. :triumphant:

Everything's fine now.
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Good to see you posting on here, Bella ^^^

All I know is I've got an 0566 and it's a great specimen of ZT QC. I'll admit the thing was hard to deploy for the first few days, but I took the torsion bar out and it flips great as a manual. Early lockup, no blade play and of course the blade is centered. Every company has lemons, and it looks like the OP had some bad luck. I know I would be bothered if my knife came back from warranty and it wasn't centered.
 
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