13C26 Razor Blade Steel -- a Kershaw Junkyard Dog II Review

[Dog of War]

Many knives are uncomfortable in heavy cutting, for various reasons. Boye was always very good for that, his knives are exceptionally comfortable both due to the handle and very rounded spine. Wilson is good for that as well. So are most of the ABS guys. A lot of the folders however don't tend to work well if you do heavy whittling or dozens of think hemp cuts.

And just to add to that, unless you're sacrificing ergonomics and comfort to achieve smaller size and weight, or some other desireable or necessary feature for a particular purpose, it's pretty hard to justify IMO.

When you consider how noticeable differences in ergonomics can be just doing short runs of testing like this when the knives are optimally sharpened, you realize just how awful some of them would be if you had no choice but to use them past the point of significant dulling, like in a survival scenario.

Of course not a lot of people really need to make 50 hemp cuts and security is usually argued to be more important. Though I don't think those two have to oppose each other. Does Kershaw have a 13C26 in a non-tactical?

Maybe because of it's well-thought out design and simplicity, my first reaction was to reply that the JYD2 doesn't seem like a tactical to me now that I've used it. But I think I know what you're asking, and I don't know (is a Leek a tactical?) I believe many or most of Kershaw's existing 440A models are being upgraded to 13C26. Also IMO this would be a very nice steel for a gent's knife, so perhaps we'll see something like that.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

... 13C26. Also IMO this would be a very nice steel for a gent's knife...

Yeah, purpose built. For tacticals I don't see it doing well (in general) as there you need a heavier edge and then you have inherent stability and thus you just go with 154CM+ class steels. This of course has been done to death with the many S30V vs 420HC comparions (would anyone even debate that now) but the point remains that 420HC has a much higher edge stability inherently. It will be interesting to see if threads like this induce people to stop with the "AUS-4 is junk" threads.

-Cliff

 

[jaislandboy]

interesting thread gentlemen....
I recently acquired all 3 knives JYD, JYD2, Groove....
and I like them all.....
However, the one that I believe is my fave is the JYD2....the flipper action is perfect, along with the balance....
The Groove is also sweet, but I have mixed feelings about the "grooves" from a friction standpoint when slicing.....and I will work on thinning the edge further....
the flipper on the Groove (like STR mentioned) is "effortless"....
Using the flipper on the JYD 1 usually requires a little wrist snap to get it right....the other larger knives are remarkably easy to open....
this is my 1st experience using 13C26...I have been impressed with the steel thus far (mostly paper/cardboard cutting)......I've stropped each a couple of times....
So if I had to pick just one......I'd choose the JYD2 first, then the Groove, then the JYD1.... IMHO all 3 great knives for the $ spent.....

 

[Tim Galyean]

I did not design the JYD to be "Tactical" I designed it for every day use. Tactical seems to be a very loose and broad term these days in production knives. Some would say Tactical is a function, others would say it is a look.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Makers have tactical definitions, but there is also very much a look. If you put that knife alongside one of Boye's folders and asked people which one was tactical and which one was an EDC there would be no hesitation. Plus it is also marketed as tactical with phrases such as "410 steel for impact strength" and "airforce markings". Be frank, it isn't the type of knife that you could take out at work and open a few packages and not get a lot more attention than if you did it with a SAK or Calpyso Jr. .

-Cliff

 

[STR]

I've kind of to myself always considered any modern one hand opening, pocket clip equipped folder with special grip features and textured grips to be pretty much one I'd put in the tactical arena. Personally I hate that word, "tactical" because it is a rather loosely defined term that means different things to different people.

I remember a thread a long time ago about that and some thought tacticals were black and camo handled, black blades, or subdued finishes while others considered any blade with a Hole or stud/disc for opening would be. Perhaps a flipper will now be added right in with the other one hand opening styles for some that consider this tactical perhaps not. Who knows?

For me the term tactical was a way to define or describe the difference between a traditional nail nick opening style blade on a locking folder that rides deep because it has no pocket clip option vs one of the newer modern one hand opening and closing pocket clip style knives that can be whipped out in a flash. A two hand locking folder vs a one hand operated one in other words.

One might also argue that any knife that can be broke down in the field for cleaning would make it a tactical or one that has a bare bones working finish vs a pocket jewlery one also.

I would have to agree that the handle color chosen for the JYDII is more sheeple friendly than most tactical knives.

I would also think it was quite possible to pull out and use the smaller JYD in public with no loud gasps or "oh my god" statements from onlookers. The JYDII might be a different story though.

STR

 

[Cliff Stamp]

I think you can have clips and such and not be a tactical, would not be traditional, but still, they would not be something to be glared at, assuming of course you don't go out of your way to switchblade style snap them open. For the very large knives, with the 4" style blades, it is hard to not look tactical due to sheer size, Reeves does it well with his knives though. I never got a second look using them. They very much carry the point of being a utility knife. Ironically, I never did like them much for that and greatly prefered folders which were indeed designed as tactical blades, Military for example. But you pop out the Military at work and it is shock and awe time.

-Cliff

 

[wwells20]

I did not design the JYD to be "Tactical" I designed it for every day use. Tactical seems to be a very loose and broad term these days in production knives. Some would say Tactical is a function, others would say it is a look.

I have a JYD, the small one, and I love it! So much so, when I make the leap into true customs, you will be be first on my list. Thank you for a wonderful design!:thumbup:

 

[Dog of War]

"Tactical" has become an awfully fuzzy term IMO, in part because of designs evolving, both at the extreme of "tacticalness" as well as in features like one hand opening that are quickly being incorporated into what we now accept as everyday working blades.

Since the JYD2 seems thoughtfully designed to work as a tool and hasn't been embellished with a lot of needless cosmetic treatment, I think it can stand on its merits as a medium-heavy duty utility folder alone. However I have to admit I was kind of surprised when a neighbor I was repairing some fence with last weekend let out a gasping "Wow!" when I pulled mine out and opened it with the flipper (this guy used to work for NSA so he's not exactly a Pelosiesque, Armani-suited liberal.) I just don't seem to get those reactions from anyone, regardless of what I'm doing (or brandishing) so the JYD2 apparently does make a bit of a statement. No denying it should serve well as a weapon, which I suppose is the only thing truly objective about the concept of a tactical blade.

 

[stjames]

I guess I'll add to this waste of bandwidth...


"Tactical" must have a very different meaning for a young guy like Tim compared to us old folks. His world has always had knives with pocket clips and one handed opening, available with coatings and AO if you like. These new fangled options weren't around when we were in The Scouts, so must seem frightening to the average caveman.

 

[jvan]

I've been around for 60+ years and have found that every little segment of society be it a knife forum, accounting office or restaraunt kitchen has a Cliff Stamp among the population. They are very intelligent, have few if any friends and spend the majority of their waking hours trying hard to convince the rest of their world just how smart they are. They talk a lot yet say very little. They only exist because people like us give them a platform from which to speak.

There have been so many valuable postings in this thread from decent human beings that it disturbs me that people such as Cliff are allowed to continue to polute the environment.

BTW, since reading this thread I have gone ahead and ordered a Kershaw Storm II based on STR's comments. He, by the way, is one of the decent human beings in my book.

John

 

[flatgrinder]

I like Cliff's opinions and appreciate his willingness to share info. :thumbup:

 

[knarfeng]

I've been around for 60+ years and have found that every little segment of society be it a knife forum, accounting office or restaraunt kitchen has a Cliff Stamp among the population. They are very intelligent, have few if any friends and spend the majority of their waking hours trying hard to convince the rest of their world just how smart they are. They talk a lot yet say very little. They only exist because people like us give them a platform from which to speak.

There have been so many valuable postings in this thread from decent human beings that it disturbs me that people such as Cliff are allowed to continue to polute the environment.

BTW, since reading this thread I have gone ahead and ordered a Kershaw Storm II based on STR's comments. He, by the way, is one of the decent human beings in my book. John

I admit I am often put off by Cliff's demeanor. But I value his opinions on steel, even if I don't always track with his reasoning. He knows stuff that I don't. FWIW, IMO he has made both positive and negative contributions to this thread. I have tried to ignore the negative and understand the positive.

BTW I also value STRs opinions. Those I can usually follow. And I never have to ignore anything he says.

 

[fishface5]

ditto Knarfeng. Cliff is always stepping on someone's toes. And if he can't see how his behavior parts from social norms by now, I don't gather he will anytime soon. Makes you appreciate the genetlemanly behavior of others here even more. But his reviews I find really informative and thorough.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

However I have to admit I was kind of surprised when a neighbor I was repairing some fence with last weekend let out a gasping "Wow!" when I pulled mine out and opened it with the flipper....

Yeah, my point, it doesn't exactly look like a Buck 110. There were always "tactical" knives, long before there were flippers or clips. None of those things really say tactical as that is more of an "aggressive" look/feel.

-Cliff

 

[STR]

Cliff is an excellent source of knowledge and an excellent researcher. Unfortunately his 'forum side manner' sucks though. If you can get past that there is good information underneath in most cases though.

Cliff has cautioned me saying I need to be careful about the statements I make regarding the Rockwell thing. Maybe so. I could say the same about him if I wanted regarding broad ranging all encompassing statments of public distrust for those around here promoting their products. Funny how I see what Thomas does here no differently than what Busse or Sal or Reeves or anyone else does that has forums here and occasionally posts about their own products and I can't ever recall any of them being referred to as 'shills' for a product they make or being called other derogatory names. Its almost as if Kershaw/Thomas is being separated out at least in his mind. The only difference I see is that Kershaw doesn't have a forum here. Well, that and an apparent lack of tolerance for anyone that makes mistakes as seen by him or doesn't convey what they mean as well as could be which is a two way street in my book.

But back to the topic. All I have is my hands and my eyes folks. I reported what I experienced using these knives. At the current edge geometry and thickness these knives come with new in the box from Kershaw I honestly do not feel that any difference in the hardness is going to make one bit of difference in how they perform. Perhaps if the edge geometries had been changed along with the RC hardness I'd feel differently. But that is my honest feelings on the matter. I don't like or appreciate the slants leaning toward calling me a liar, salesman or other names like shill at all. Whatever. I'm sorry if you feel that way. I come here to help others feel better about the knives they carry. Thats my only real motivation other than simply loving folders and knives in general. If you feel I need work and I agree I'll work on it. Thats all I can offer at this point.

Otherwise take anything I say as nothing more than it is. My honest take on it as I see it. Thats really all it is. I have no ulterior motive lurking underneath. Nor is my intent to turn science on its head over $30 and $60 knives that are apparently working very well for both the people using them and the company making them in 13C26 steel. I am not that complicated. I'm just an old country bloke with baggy overalls on most days getting my hands dirty.

Believe me my mind has bigger fish to fry to worry about than these petty threads like the fact that my son will probably be going back to Iraq for another tour. This is just a convenient way to keep me from dwelling on that so when I hear things like how I'm just here to shill I have to roll my eyes. Forgive me but its just absurd. End rant.

STR

 

[Lanza]

Everyone has their own style. It's what makes the world go round and keeps the forums from being boring.

 

[msiley]

I've been around for 60+ years and have found that every little segment of society be it a knife forum, accounting office or restaraunt kitchen has a Cliff Stamp among the population. They are very intelligent, have few if any friends and spend the majority of their waking hours trying hard to convince the rest of their world just how smart they are. They talk a lot yet say very little. They only exist because people like us give them a platform from which to speak.

There have been so many valuable postings in this thread from decent human beings that it disturbs me that people such as Cliff are allowed to continue to polute the environment.

BTW, since reading this thread I have gone ahead and ordered a Kershaw Storm II based on STR's comments. He, by the way, is one of the decent human beings in my book.

John

Dude that's rough. To think you wrapped up someone's
personallity to the point of thinking they are pollution and
should be eliminated from the forums tells me more about
your personality deficits then it does about him.

Maybe if people didn't continually attack Cliff for usually
no logically reason (usually emotional) he wouldn't
be so ascerbic at times. Right or wrong his thinking
is rigorous which at times can come off as unpleasant.
I don't think he means to be personal just exacting.
It's a common trait among people with a rigorous academic background.

Do I think he's perfect? Nope. Just human. We all
have faults. I have mine (damn taxes still not done!)

 

[jvan]

My meaning was that he is poluting this environment (forum) with unfounded character assasinations.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Maybe if people didn't continually attack Cliff for usually
no logically reason (usually emotional) he wouldn't
be so ascerbic at times.

Actually I don't mind that, I just think it is amusing, most of the attacks are so absurd you can't get upset. People with no experience and background heavily critize me on topics I have published papers in and where I have been numerously held to rigerous and indepent verification. How do you take any of that nonsense seriously.

My meaning was that he is poluting this environment (forum) with unfounded character assasinations.

My statements, unlike the numerous others in this thread are founded on FACTS. Thomas lied numerous times in the above which I pointed out. Here is a suggestion, don't lie and then you won't have to deal with being called a lier. DOn't spread misinformation and I won't call you on it. Note who cites published references and who does not. I am not the one engaging in ad hominem arguements.

Unfortunately his 'forum side manner' sucks though.

More hyperbole. Not everyone on this forum are salesmen, shills or so baised towards makers. Go into the sub-forums where the focus is on facts and not propoganda and watch the interactions there and you will notice they are very different. . How come there is no such nonsense on Swordforums which is filled with high level and very experienced individuals and I was specifically INVITED there and engage people on a regular basis? Now I am the same person everywhere so what is different? I'll give you a hint - it isn't me.

I could say the same about him if I wanted regarding broad ranging all encompassing statments of public distrust for those around here promoting their products.

Again, P.T. Barnum would be proud. Yes STR, in case you didn't see me say it before - NO SALESMEN IS AN UNBIASED SOURCE OF INFORMATION, this is common sense.

You realize how many tests are done on knives where the results are never aired because the knives didn't perform the way the makers thought. Another knife did better, or the performance advantage wasn't as great, or the performance similar wasn't that awesome given the price.

Now someone like DoW will report this work, Thomas will not, nor will any other maker. See how many such reports that you can find where a maker clearly stated that a competing product was directly superior and you should buy that instead.

Of course all promotional material from any maker is suspect. But Busse and Glesser are worlds apart from Thomas, both of those people really understand steel and geometry and both of them ask for information all the time where Thomas propogates the Kershaw line with no actual factual support and ignores facts when presented to him.

Now find a case where Glesser and Busse made statements about steel/performance and I refuted them with actual data and then they attacked me for doing it and ignored the data. You begin to see the difference yet?

Busse also GUARANTEES the performance he states which also makes a lot of difference and Glesser supports his position with ACTUAL DATA HE PUBLISHES not vague references to testing.

In regards to the HRC comment, my point was simply to note that what you were saying was just as absurd as noting that a machete and ABS bowie would be no different in edge behavior (deformation/strength wise) or similar for a 420J2 blade vs 154CM. That is the SAME HRC DIFFERENCE.

This 60 HRC arguement is one of the biggest myths in the industry where people claim that 60 HRC is "good enough" or whatever and that the difference between 60 HRC and 65 is insignificant but the difference between 60 and 55 is tremendous. These statements are in DIRECT OPPOSITION.

The problem is that people actually believe this nonsense even though there is factual data from makers and users over ten years old which directly refutes it, not to mention the actual metallurgical theory which is straightforward and says that it is nonsense directly.

Now to clearify, the wear resistance of 13C26 will only increase slightly from 58 to 65, but if that is what you are interested in, that steel will be KILLED by something like S30V anyway and it is a poor choice for such applications. This is why you run it very hard so it can be ground very thin and easily outcut S30V and then outlast it due to the Swaim edge lifetime effect.

-Cliff