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I talked to him about the business model but he went ahead .I have one on order but months ago I stopped holding my breath !
 
So in the last couple years I bought a 2.7 and a 4.7 both factory 2nds. I received both around 50 days later which was awesome . Then in October I ordered a 4.1 2nd and it took until yesterday to receive it which totally turned me off . But as soon as I got it in hand I forgot about all of that. The blade shape is one of the best imo, so is the quality and attention to detail . The new D3V is just the icing on the cake. I will be looking for a 3.5 on the secondary market because of my impatience . But I will always look to them as my best and favorite knives .
 
brancron said:
Their knives are exceedingly boring, their "business model" is highly suspicious, I wouldn't trust a word they say, and their fans are completely brainwashed zealots. That's what I think!
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Very well put. Completely agree.

Blues Bender said:
Sums up my opinion. I feel like all of their knives look the same and their designs lack innovation.

Add in the scam-factor and I wouldn't touch one with a 10' pole.
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Scam factor is huge.

Insipid Moniker said:
The performance of their knives seems exemplary. Their business model ensures that I'll never buy anything from them.
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And it is not just the impact their way of doing business has had on them in the past and currently. What about the future? What if you have an issue with your knife down the road? Can you trust folks who run a company so poorly to be there for you in the future? I won't.
 
Great quality for the money. I've bought 4 seconds and/or ugly betties and have always received within 90 days. Had my first extremely positive experience with Cru-V steel with them and if another maker used it in a pattern I liked I would buy another in a heartbeat.

About the business: I think they are more experienced knife makers than business people and unfortunately it shows. I would say there is no evidence of any undue or malicious intent on taking money and withholding product, just unhappy customers based on lead-times and Survive's poor communication. Yes, people have waited for knives, but refunds have been made when requested, so that's good enough for me. They have changed their model to reflect longer lead-times up front and those pre-sales continue to be sold out in days, which may be a better indication of how their customers feel.
 
craytab said:
Very well put. Completely agree.


Scam factor is huge.


And it is not just the impact their way of doing business has had on them in the past and currently. What about the future? What if you have an issue with your knife down the road? Can you trust folks who run a company so poorly to be there for you in the future? I won't.
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You have my attention craycrab . Has someone actually been scammed ? I'm kind of curious now because if this is true I certainly won't be ordering from them.
 
Ratman79 said:
the type of 3v Survive uses was developed with two other knifemakers who treat their customers admirably to say the least. If you want the performance, go with either of them instead of Survive
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Who are these other knifemakers? I've been wanting to try that combination of 3V and heat treatment (I think it's called the Delta heat treat?) but I don't want to wait a year for a Survive! knife. If it's available from other makers I'd love to look them up.
 
Carbon- said:
Who are these other knifemakers? I've been wanting to try that combination of 3V and heat treatment (I think it's called the Delta heat treat?) but I don't want to wait a year for a Survive! knife. If it's available from other makers I'd love to look them up.
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sfrigon1 said:
Carothers is one but good luck getting one . I'm not sure who the other is
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Yes. Carothers Performance Knives (CPK). They are hard to get but the knife actually exists when you buy it (they reluctantly did a presale but that is not usually how they do things). Their business model is much more traditional and far more safe. They do various friday sales and what not. Check out their makers subforum here. I've gotten 3 of their knives. If you are on the ball you have a good shot at one. They come up on the exchange now and again as well, I got one from there.
 
sfrigon1 said:
You have my attention craycrab . Has someone actually been scammed ? I'm kind of curious now because if this is true I certainly won't be ordering from them.
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Depends on what you call scammed. I think years of waiting and untimely refunds is a scam. I also think their business model is reminiscent of a ponzi scheme and unsustainable. I'm not willing to put my faith in a production company that operates in such a way. There is much more to it than this but that is the gist of it. There was a long thread in their subforum about this (ultimately shut down by Survive).
 
So no one has actually been scammed, that what I thought. If you always receive your product and or money . So what is the scam here ? I'm trying to get to the bottom of this.
 
I can't see someone who puts that much effort into their knives running a scam. Why bother making such an excellent product just to ruin it with an actual scam? Poor communication and timing maybe. Doesn't seem like a scam to me.
 
sfrigon1 said:
So no one has actually been scammed, that what I thought. If you always receive your product and or money . So what is the scam here ? I'm trying to get to the bottom of this.
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It's clear you are a fan and have an agenda here. That's fine. But this isn't the survive forum. If you want only glowing opinions go there. When it appears a company holds your money for over a year and only gives you a refund when they see fit, all the while still selling knives to others, I call that a huge scam factor. Sorry if you disagree.
 
So let me start by saying i am a fan and love my Survive! Knives. So as to not be confused if someone calls me a fanboy. In my opinion, Survive knives and CPK are the best fixed blades on the market no other knives come close for me. I love my Busse blades but i like the others more mainly because of pricing, designs, thinner slicier edges,etc.


What is crazy to me is all three of these companys do preorders and are are very difficult to buy first hand. All three on the secondary market are hard to find and when you do your gonna pay a mark up.All three companys have knives at times you can buy with no wait. TWO of the three and maybe busse has at some point taken/ take money up front for a product that you dont know when you will recieve it. CPK and their survival knife prorder is a" pay up front and wait until whenever we ge get it done" knife the same way Survive!'s preorders are pay upfront. Not trying to take anything away from either company Jo and Nathan are some of the best people i have ever met and are stand up members of the bladeforums community that i would do anything in the world for.

So here is my opinion: So CPK and Survive! make the absolute best knives with the best steel/ergos on the market for an amazing price that no one elso can or does offer. Until someone does or I find something that does these 2 ( and an occasional Busse) are the only game in town. And if you dont wanna wait then you can always try and get lucky at CPK sale or wait and try to get one of Survives! ready to ship orders. I personally do not enjoy the wait but i do enjoy not having to check their site and/or the exchange 24/7 because this time of year im really busy and dont have the time.
 
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craytab said:
It's clear you are a fan and have an agenda here. That's fine. But this isn't the survive forum. If you want only glowing opinions go there. When it appears a company holds your money for over a year and only gives you a refund when they see fit, all the while still selling knives to others, I call that a huge scam factor. Sorry if you disagree.
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There's also the very real risk of accidental loss. This is a small company that has taken a demonstrable financial risk and has had obvious issues keeping up production. And it's a company that seems utterly reliant on one person. Unexpected health issues, unforseen financial issues or even issues with 3rd party vendors and service providers can put any small business under pretty quickly. And if they go under the chances of those waiting getting a knife or a refund are mathematically indistinguishable from zero.
 
not a fan. designs don't hit me right. might be great users, don't know never owned one. visually they just don't hit me.

their business model is a major fail.

that is all.......
 
Insipid Moniker said:
I agree with this, and have nothing but respect for the gentlemen running CPK, but I wouldn't pay up front for a preorder from them, either.
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I'm not sure I would either. In general pay up front anything is a bad idea. I think cpk does it because they were asked to so folks who can't figure out how to get one otherwise are able. I haven't looked at the terms of their most recent one but that was how it was in the past. That said the difference between survive and cpk is night and day. Custom vs production, mostly in house vs mostly out sourced. This is a complex subject. Folks should do extensive research on survive rather than just read what is said by fans. See for yourself if it is worth the risk.
 
Insipider Monkey, great points! I've owned 5 Survive knives in the past but last year got a refund and have since moved on to other companies.

I requested a refund due to long wait times. They serve too many masters so to speak. They rely on 3rd parties for many aspects of production. Survive seem to use the pay up front model to create capital for that production. Finally, one person does much of the finishing steps before completion. I felt uncomfortable having a substantial amount of cash "invested" in their product. Hopefully a day will come when Survive can complete all/most steps of production in house.
 
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