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Who's to say while you're waiting for god knows how long they won't collapse as a company? If they don't refund in a timely fashion WHILE THEY ARE IN BUSINESS what makes you think they'd do so if they shut there doors?

Also, the ravenous zealots brancron mentioned are a put off as well. Add these things with a knife that I find as attractive as a broom handle and the answer is HELL NO.

That's my 2 cents.
 
craytab said:
It's clear you are a fan and have an agenda here. That's fine. But this isn't the survive forum. If you want only glowing opinions go there. When it appears a company holds your money for over a year and only gives you a refund when they see fit, all the while still selling knives to others, I call that a huge scam factor. Sorry if you disagree.
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No agenda ,I asked you a very simple question in which a simple answer should be givin. I will ask one more time and let's see if you can answer it. Has anyone ever been scammed by them ? And if I wanted glowing opinions I would not have brought my question to GKD. I really wanted to know what everyone thinks of this company. Also I genuinely wanted to know if anyone had actually been taken for money and or product that's all
 
craytab said:
Cpk and survive have vastly different histories. To equate their preorders is a bit silly.
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To equate the NASK preorder to a Survive! Preorder is the same concept exactly pay up front and start waiting. Not sure what is silly about that but it is a fact. Further more you have posted like 6 times about your dislike of this brand on the 2nd page of the thread alone. We get it your he opposite of a fanboy your a hater

Also insipid moniker the risk you speak of is real for any small company survive or cpk so thats a moot point and to my knowledge and craytabs and anyone else who has posted they have always made good ie knife or refund.

To me the only thing silly is to talk about how much of a risk it is when a company always makes it right.
 
sfrigon1 said:
So no one has actually been scammed, that what I thought. If you always receive your product and or money . So what is the scam here ? I'm trying to get to the bottom of this.
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To me, it is hard to tell whether there is a scam factor or not, but there is one factor beyond the long wait that i really didn't like. Back when i was researching, and thinking about buying, i saw a number of people talking about "seconds" and how they could be acquired so quickly. Many of them were also noting that there seemed to be no difference between seconds and non-blemish knives. This is what made me worry and decide not to proceed, at least for now. The specific worry i have is the temptation of putting short term cash ahead of fulfilling paid for orders that are sitting on the books. If that is actually happening, and i am not saying that it is, then it is kind of scammy and could mean very bad things for the longevity of the business. I hope that isn't the case.
 
Carbon- said:
Who are these other knifemakers? I've been wanting to try that combination of 3V and heat treatment (I think it's called the Delta heat treat?) but I don't want to wait a year for a Survive! knife. If it's available from other makers I'd love to look them up.
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The HT recipe is not some deep dark secret. It involves using the lower tempering temperature and cryo right out of the quench with no"snap" temper. You can request be done on your own blades from Peters.
 
If you are looking for a knife maker that uses a 3V and a good HT, just look for makers and ask if they use a low temper HT protocol. That is what D3V is. HT companies will do it for you if you tell them, otherwise they will do the industry standard high temp temper HT protocol. D3V has a few minor tweaks that help edge stability, but is extremely similar to the other low HT's. There are 4 makers that use D3V that I am aware of, and quite a few are now starting to use other low temper HT protocols.
 
"Make it right" is highly subjective. People who have been lied to repeatedly (about delivery times) requested refunds and we're lied to about when they would recieve the refund but eventually get a refund doesn't count as "making it right" to me.

That's saving face and just short of scam in my eyes.
 
Goose 7279 said:
To equate the NASK preorder to a Survive! Preorder is the same concept exactly pay up front and start waiting. Not sure what is silly about that but it is a fact. Further more you have posted like 6 times about your dislike of this brand on the 2nd page of the thread alone. We get it your he opposite of a fanboy your a hater

Also insipid moniker the risk you speak of is real for any small company survive or cpk so thats a moot point and to my knowledge and craytabs and anyone else who has posted they have always made good ie knife or refund.

To me the only thing silly is to talk about how much of a risk it is when a company always makes it right.
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No, that risk does NOT exist with any small company. If I buy a CPK when it goes up on their forum it is a completed knife ready to ship to me. Even if they declared bankruptcy 5 minutes later I suspect they would still send me the knife, but if they didn't I could easily still get refunded through Paypal or my credit card company. That's absolutely not the case if the knife purchase is called an investment and the wait time can easily exceed a year. In the CPK example my risk would essentially be disappointment, nothing more. If you're referring to their preorder, well, that's why I previously stated that I wouldn't preorder from them either. It doesn't take malice or incompetence for money to disappear in situations like that, simply bad luck.
 
ndmiller said:
Great quality for the money. I've bought 4 seconds and/or ugly betties and have always received within 90 days. Had my first extremely positive experience with Cru-V steel with them and if another maker used it in a pattern I liked I would buy another in a heartbeat.

About the business: I think they are more experienced knife makers than business people and unfortunately it shows. I would say there is no evidence of any undue or malicious intent on taking money and withholding product, just unhappy customers based on lead-times and Survive's poor communication. Yes, people have waited for knives, but refunds have been made when requested, so that's good enough for me. They have changed their model to reflect longer lead-times up front and those pre-sales continue to be sold out in days, which may be a better indication of how their customers feel.
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Survive are relatively latecomers to Cru Forge V as it was not available in the sizes they use until a knife maker bought the last avlaible multi ton billet of it and had it rolled out to thicknesses less than 1/4. Some of us knife makers bought the stuff when it first came out as did steel supplier Kelly Cupples. I bought like 300 pounds and I know one knifemaker who bought 5000 pounds. what you wont get is a knife for $189 because us poor schlubs have to forge them if we use CruForgeV. ;)
 
^ what jdm said. We posted above at the exact same time. I get my D3V and other low temper HT's done by Peter's. I don't sell knives though, just use them myself. Not a secret at all.
 
Exactly, after the paypal 180 days expires you have no recourse with survive. So how is that the same with CPK? Oh that's right, not even close.
Insipid Moniker said:
No, that risk does NOT exist with any small company. If I buy a CPK when it goes up on their forum it is a completed knife ready to ship to me. Even if they declared bankruptcy 5 minutes later I suspect they would still send me the knife, but if they didn't I could easily still get refunded through Paypal or my credit card company. That's absolutely not the case if the knife purchase is called an investment and the wait time can easily exceed a year. In the CPK example my risk would essentially be disappointment, nothing more. If you're referring to their preorder, well, that's why I previously stated that I wouldn't preorder from them either. It doesn't take malice or incompetence for money to disappear in situations like that, simply bad luck.
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And wasn't there some wording to the effect of " if you file a dispute to get your money back, you are banned from buying their knives"? If my memory serves me correctly. That is a rather off putting factor in and of itself.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
No, that risk does NOT exist with any small company. If I buy a CPK when it goes up on their forum it is a completed knife ready to ship to me. Even if they declared bankruptcy 5 minutes later I suspect they would still send me the knife, but if they didn't I could easily still get refunded through Paypal or my credit card company. That's absolutely not the case if the knife purchase is called an investment and the wait time can easily exceed a year. In the CPK example my risk would essentially be disappointment, nothing more. If you're referring to their preorder, well, that's why I previously stated that I wouldn't preorder from them either. It doesn't take malice or incompetence for money to disappear in situations like that, simply bad luck.
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So your saying one of the survive knives that you can order that is ready to ship wouldnt show up and the CPK would? I respect that you wouldnt do a pay and wait preorder from either by the way. <- In all honesty. I feel like that is the only way you can look at it is either i willor wont preorder. As for the the ready to ship knives it is pure luck and they are very difficult to land so i consider both companies almost equal in alot of their bussiness methods. Granted i respect and hold CPK a little higher. Mainly because of the interactions i have had with the owners and makers of my knife its something that means alot to me.


Survive kinda hurt themselves with offering so many preorders right off the rip. CPK has just now started doing a few preorders but originally they wouldnt do a different preorder till they completed the other. Which i think is a good practice to have when your a small business. CPK is growing exponentially people are becoming more and more aware and both companies are trying to keep up the supply of these amazing blades. I believe survive is getting more efficient and they know that those massive amount of preorders hurt them. I dont believe they would ever do it again.
 
shinyedges said:
And wasn't there some wording to the effect of " if you file a dispute to get your money back, you are banned from buying their knives"? If my memory serves me correctly. That is a rather off putting factor in and of itself.
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I believe it was more to the effect of dont file a dispute without asking us for a refund first. To my knowledge no one has been banned though. But your right that was there at one point and time. I dont know if it still is.
 
I take it that all pre-orders are delivered & if I go to their site, and click "Buy Now", I'll have my knife
in,, like a week or two, yes?

1234,,,:D
 
Goose 7279 said:
So your saying one of the survive knives that you can order that is ready to ship wouldnt show up and the CPK would? I respect that you wouldnt do a pay and wait preorder from either by the way. <- In all honesty. I feel like that is the only way you can look at it is either i willor wont preorder. As for the the ready to ship knives it is pure luck and they are very difficult to land so i consider both companies almost equal in alot of their bussiness methods. Granted i respect and hold CPK a little higher. Mainly because of the interactions i have had with the owners and makers of my knife its something that means alot to me.


Survive kinda hurt themselves with offering so many preorders right off the rip. CPK has just now started doing a few preorders but originally they wouldnt do a different preorder till they completed the other. Which i think is a good practice to have when your a small business. CPK is growing exponentially people are becoming more and more aware and both companies are trying to keep up the supply of these amazing blades. I believe survive is getting more efficient and they know that those massive amount of preorders hurt them. I dont believe they would ever do it again.
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Going by their own website there is no way to order a Survive knife that is ready to ship. They offer preorders and Wednesday sales and explicitly state that the Wednesday sales aren't completed knives.
 
They do sell completed knives it is usually the last of a run stuff like that or knives from an old run. two weeks ago i ordered a factory first gso 4.7 in 3v it was at my house in a week. Like i said you just have to get lucky the same like a carothers sale. Only difference is you dont know when they will post them.
 
Goose 7279 said:
They do sell completed knives it is usually the last of a run stuff like that or knives from an old run. two weeks ago i ordered a factory first gso 4.7 in 3v it was at my house in a week. Like i said you just have to get lucky the same like a carothers sale. Only difference is you dont know when they will post them.
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Of course for one company purchasing a completed knife is the standard method, with a preorder being a new exception, while with the other it is apparently a rare enough phenomenon that it's not even mentioned in the 'How to Buy' section of their website, so you'll have to excuse me for being still saying Survive carries much greater risk as a company.
 
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