"2008" A VERY GOOD Year?

Les Robertson said:
Hi Kevin,
Im no web site expert but I update mine more than every 2 years or so. Since you consider yourself to be a web site expert and an ABS expert. Any reason why they can't add the last two years Hughes Award winners to the list of Mastersmiths?
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Les Robertson said:
Hi Kevin,

I thought maybe you missed this since you didn't respond. So I wanted to post it again to get your "Web Expert" opinion.
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Well Les, first I didn't believe your post deserved a response since I have never said or insinuated that I was an expert on either websites or the ABS and two didn't think other participants here would be interested in our back & forth.

But since you insist, I will give you my frank opinion.
First of all you don't need to tell anyone that you are no website expert as your dealer site is very evident of that. However, I about fell out of my chair reading that you admitted it, as you lead one to believe you are an expert on most every subject.

I find it ironic that here you beat-up on the ABS's website and gave much advice on what a dealer website "should be" on yet another recent thread.

Though I'm not a website expert, by tracking as many custom knife websites as I do I can sure pick the good ones from the bad. Being that you are a MBA and everything else it seems, I'm very surprised you don't have the best site in the industry.

As a member I try to keep updated on what the ABS is doing but I don't know why they haven't updated their existing site. I would assume that since they are and have been working on a state of the art new site perhaps they are putting all effort on that rather than updating the old.

I have realized recently that there's a lot to keeping an association running, so perhaps it's just a manpower thing. I know myself and others are anxiously waiting for the new site.
 
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Hi Kevin,

As a member I try to keep updated on what the ABS is doing but I don't know why they haven't updated their existing site. I would assume that since they are and have been working on a state of the art new site perhaps they are putting all effort on that rather than updating the old.
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You are right, you are not a web expert. If you were surely, you could have lent an hour of manpower to the ABS (figuring the time starting with turning on the computer to turning off the computer) to add 6 MS makers to the ABS web site. Perhaps a second hour to add the 2008 MS makers.

There was some discussion at the 2007 Board meeting...funding was discussed ...but no go ahead at that time. Awards were handed out the next day...no update. As you stated above, perhaps it was a "manpower" issue. Kevin, you are putting this on man power? Really? Kevin, even without an MBA you can see that is a load of crap. Perhaps it is the ABS trying to sell this and you are just a member carrying the buckets.

As far as you picking web sites...that is based on your criteria alone. It means only something to you and those who like similar knives. The same is true for every collector who visits any web site even mine. You would be amazed at how many emails tell me I have a great web site.

My point that makers should have web sites is well founded. My web site is also proof that it does not have to be in the Jones Top 10 web sites to sell knives off of it....sell a lot of knives!
 
BTW, I have submitted hundreds of ABS maker's photos and photographed a scad of ABS gear-type-stuff (t-shirts, mugs, hats, books, etc) for the pending site.

As is the case with the ABS, it is also about giving back and volunteerism. I lent my services and images gratis.

There are (2) VERY busy makers working on this: Josh Smith, and Burt Foster. They are both competent and each has a website that passes muster.

(How well I know about not updating a site. I have wanted a new one in entirety for a couple of years. I keep saying: When I have enough time to get around to it". I have NEVER enough time.)

I am certain this is the case with the two mastersmiths who are doing the best THEY can.

Coop
 
Hi Coop,

My point has and is...how long did it take to add 6 MS Makers names to the web site?

Yes yes, everyone is working hard...and yet nothing gets done in two years? Im not talking about a major overhaul...Im talking 6 lines of script.

The ABS has more than enough money to hire someone to do the web site. Instead of hoping for volunteers why not pay to get the job done in a timely manner.

Yes, it is about giving back to an organization. However, what is the organization giving to its members? A web site that can't even list it's paid up membership?

Yes, the membership is doing the best THEY can. Coop don't you think it is time the board reciprocated their effort?
 
I could categorize 2008 in many ways, but as it applies to this forum, 2008 was the best of years - I learned there was an ignore feature and used it. Since then, I can't even see the entries of my two least favorite people on this forum.

Edit: Kumbaya
 
How did this turn into a bash the ABS thread?

From what I have read, 2008 appears to have been a good year in general. This doesn't mean it was all good, but that many shows did well, many makers did well and many collectors had a good year. As far as online custom knife dealers is concerned, I have no idea how well they are doing.

Les, how has your year been so far? Other than that you haven't been in as many magazines as usual, have other areas been good, bad or average? How have things been for Bob? It would be interesting to know a bit about how the dealer market is doing in 2008.
 
Les Robertson said:
Hi Kevin,



You are right, you are not a web expert. If you were surely, you could have lent an hour of manpower to the ABS (figuring the time starting with turning on the computer to turning off the computer) to add 6 MS makers to the ABS web site. Perhaps a second hour to add the 2008 MS makers.

There was some discussion at the 2007 Board meeting...funding was discussed ...but no go ahead at that time. Awards were handed out the next day...no update. As you stated above, perhaps it was a "manpower" issue. Kevin, you are putting this on man power? Really? Kevin, even without an MBA you can see that is a load of crap. Perhaps it is the ABS trying to sell this and you are just a member carrying the buckets.

As far as you picking web sites...that is based on your criteria alone. It means only something to you and those who like similar knives. The same is true for every collector who visits any web site even mine. You would be amazed at how many emails tell me I have a great web site.

My point that makers should have web sites is well founded. My web site is also proof that it does not have to be in the Jones Top 10 web sites to sell knives off of it....sell a lot of knives!
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Obvious from the above you don't know the status of the new ABS website. It is being professionally done. Why don't you call Don Fogg, Josh or Burt to get your information straight rather than trashing the ABS over something you know nothing about.

You didn't attend the the last ABS Reno Show, however that small detail hasn't stopped you from stating over and over on this forum how bad sales were. The same for the Arkansas Show. Thanks Chuck for setting the record straight.

You should be a little more responsible and limit your comments regarding knife shows and knife organizations to items that you have first hand knowledge.

And you are right Les, I don't have a MBA, I learned my business skills the old fashion way, doing business, real business.
 
Hi Keith,

Won't know till the end of 2008 how it stacks up.

At this point, sales wise, I have had my best January, February March, April, and July ever.

I suspect that has as much to do with the makers I work with as anything else.

In 2007 I had several months that were the best I had ever had...to that point.

I think every year more and more collectors are doing their homework and giving a little more consideration...not to investment. But to their knives holding their value. The majority of the makers I work with are utilizing "value" pricing. I believe this has helped them immensely over the last several years.

As more collectors have access to computers and can access knife forums and in particular their "For Sale" forums. While not 100% accurate, they at least give a glimpse as to what their favorite makers knives are selling for in the after market.

This is slowly but surely impacting the custom knife market. Positively for some and negatively for others.
 
Then again, if someone quotes someone that I have on ignore, I have no choice but to read it.

EDIT: KUMBAYA
 
Kevin,

You are right I don't know the status and neither do you.

If it is being professionally done (what happened to the volunteers you referenced earlier or are Don, Burt and Josh website experts as well?) it should be done by now.

Kevin, so which is it. Is the site being professionally done or are ABS Makers volunteering their time. Help us all out here Kevin.

Surely a professional should be able to update the list of 6 Mastersmiths in less than 14 months?

As for both the Reno Show and The LR show, I based my comments off of what I was told by the makers I work with who were set up at the show.

As for the ABS, Kevin I joined in 1988....what year did you join. I would say I have a little more knowledge about the organization than you do.

And you are right Les, I don't have a MBA, I learned my business skills the old fashion way, doing business, real business.
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Kevin, there is still time...night school for about 4 years should get you an MBA. You are a little touchy about the MBA thing.

As for "real business"....you mean a business that someone else owns and runs. Where you are merely an employee? Who tomorrow could be fired, laid off or downsized? You mean that "real" business.

Forget the MBA Kevin...let me know when you start and successful run your own business. Im not talking about managing a chain of Auto Stores (that someone started and you managed.

Kevin, you should heed your own advice and stick to something you have first hand knowledge of. Which of course has nothing to do with running a business....real or otherwise.

Why don't you ask Josh, Burt or Don Fogg if their "business" is real or not. So I take it that you don't think that Jerry Fisk and Harvey Dean are not "real" businessmen because their business is custom knives? Wow, you didn't think that one out to well.
 
Les, I'm wondering if you have ever felt any impact on your sales from the posts you make in here. It seems to me that calling people out on whatever, especially collectors, would be counter productive to your bottom line. I truly am curious why you think it's worth the risk?
 
Keith Montgomery said:
How did this turn into a bash the ABS thread?
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I don't know Keith. To some every time the letters "ABS" are stated or printed it turns into that.

I started this thread as I have noticed some very positives things happening in the custom knife industry this year. More so than any other period since I have been collecting. Some significant enough to have a positive effect perhaps for years and others more subtle. I was curious if others had noticed things as well.

I was more addressing the "big picture" or globally not really if knife sales were +/- last quarter.
 
Les Robertson said:
Kevin,

You are right I don't know the status and neither do you.

If it is being professionally done (what happened to the volunteers you referenced earlier or are Don, Burt and Josh website experts as well?) it should be done by now.

Kevin, so which is it. Is the site being professionally done or are ABS Makers volunteering their time. Help us all out here Kevin.

Surely a professional should be able to update the list of 6 Mastersmiths in less than 14 months?

As for both the Reno Show and The LR show, I based my comments off of what I was told by the makers I work with who were set up at the show.

As for the ABS, Kevin I joined in 1988....what year did you join. I would say I have a little more knowledge about the organization than you do.



Kevin, there is still time...night school for about 4 years should get you an MBA. You are a little touchy about the MBA thing.

As for "real business"....you mean a business that someone else owns and runs. Where you are merely an employee? Who tomorrow could be fired, laid off or downsized? You mean that "real" business.

Forget the MBA Kevin...let me know when you start and successful run your own business. Im not talking about managing a chain of Auto Stores (that someone started and you managed.
Kevin, you should heed your own advice and stick to something you have first hand knowledge of. Which of course has nothing to do with running a business....real or otherwise.

Why don't you ask Josh, Burt or Don Fogg if their "business" is real or not. So I take it that you don't think that Jerry Fisk and Harvey Dean are not "real" businessmen because their business is custom knives? Wow, you didn't think that one out to well.
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Again Les, as usual commenting on something you know nothing about. I bought one store, grew the organization, sold it.

I respect and admire each man you mentioned both as a person and as successful businessmen. As a matter of fact Jerry is one of the most savvy businessmen I have ever had the pleasure to meet. That's one of the reasons I collect his knives.
 
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Les,

First let me say this shows just how much you DON'T know. The meeting that Burt and I presented at was this year, yes 2008.

The blame for the delay in launching the new ABS's web site can fall directly on my shoulders and Burt Fosters. Burt and I have a few things left to gather and the new site will be rolling. I know you can hardly wait, me too.

Please excuse Burt and my lack of promptness. We've each been buried in orders during this soft market for forged blades. I can't believe it either Les!

I would like to apologize to everyone for Burt and my lack of promptness in launching this new site. No one else should shoulder blame except for us.

Les, you should worry more about things you can control like your own site. Reputable dealers like Dave Harvey, Paul Shindler, and Larry Connelly to name a few are out there promoting makers and pushing their sites to new heights. You on the other hand like to think you're a major player but instead you are just another dealer. The guys mentioned above are much more that that. They are respected across the board by makers, collectors, and other dealers. I respect you for one thing, your service to our country.

If you're such an expert you should try starting a show. Oh yeah, you did and it fell flat. Blasting other shows that you think are poor is like the pot calling the kettle black. You were not in Reno this year so where did your opinions on the show come from? Your research department needs work Les.

As long as I'm around Les you will not get away with bashing an organization with untruths that consists of volunteers with the best of intentions in their heart. At 27 I have time on my side and I will outlast you. For 16 years I've been in the knife world and for 50 more I will try my best to represent the knife world positively. But today I'm calling a spade a spade. I'm established Les, I'm full time, I have a track record, and I'm not going to let you sound off without a challenge. You better start coming to the table with facts or find a different tree to bark up.

I could give a crap if you were first a member in '88, your not now. Kevin Jones has done more positive in three years that you have in a life time. I joined in '93 and every major maker I've come in contact with from the ABS has had not one good thing to say about you. They have been proven correct in every piece of advice they've given me about you Les.

I'm not scared to disagree with the ABS either. But Les when I have an issue with them I will take it up with them in a board meeting face to face. In fact at my private show next year I have 5 AKI members, 3 master smiths, and two stock removal legends attending, three of which will be teaching at my hammer in. So don't try and paint me as an ABS shill. I have immense respect for all knife makers and knife organizations. Some of my favorite people in the knife world are not ABS members or forgers. In fact I would welcome a cool stock removal order. Any takers? I would be reacting the same way if you were unfairly bashing a different knife organization.

I'm not discouraging you from disagreeing with ABS policy or actions. I'm just asking you to know what you're talking about when you come to the table with a complaint. In fact I encourage your productive ideas to be shared on forums, backed up with facts, and with a lot less hostility.

Les you should consider starting your own organization if you are the all knowing. I see you are no longer a part of the CKCA. Wow, in less than three months. What happened Les? Did you make somebody mad? Were you unable to be civil during discussions and disagreements while in turn offending people with your harsh words? Or did you just change your mind and decide an organization for collectors was a bad idea. Surely you will take away a whole new list of grand ideas for the perfect organization.

Les most people don't need an MBA to smell a skunk in a wood shed. You're self appointed genius status, lack of tact, and respect for others smells wrong to me.

To everyone else reading this I'd like to apologize for my tone and possible lack of professionalism but there are times that some people need to be confronted. I felt that desire here. That desire comes from a history of comments from Les that were either inaccurate or unfair. I hope you can judge me not by this post but by my track record.
 
josh....i did not know you and burt were working on the site...can't wai to see it.....ryan
 
Josh, I'm not sure why it is, but after reading your post, I feel as though I should buy a knife from you someday. My obligation to go through with buying an custom knife ordered from Burt 8 months ago or so has also been reinstated. Not that I wasn't going to go through with it, but money is tight. I'll make it work. Hopefully he'll do a layaway:o

Your passion speaks volumes bro. The ABS is in good hands with the likes of you two envisioning a future for it:thumbup:
 
antonanton said:
Hey Guys.... cool down.......... take a deeeepp breath.....
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Lorien said:
Les, I'm wondering if you have ever felt any impact on your sales from the posts you make in here. It seems to me that calling people out on whatever, especially collectors, would be counter productive to your bottom line. I truly am curious why you think it's worth the risk?
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Well said both.
 
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