2013 BF Traditional knife poll - steel

2013 BF Traditional knife poll - steel

  • Carbon (1095, etc.)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Premium stainless (D2, 440C, etc.)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Regular stainless (420HC, etc.)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    0
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I don't know much about steel make-up. My simple question is is D2 Stainless Steel. I don't think it is.

Frank will straighten me out when he pops in.
 
D2 is definitely closer to stainless but I guess it dosen't quite technically qualify, it has however already been explained that it was included in the "Premium Stainless" category because it would be more expensive than a 10xx steel. I voted stainless specifically for D2, second choice would be 1095
 
Modoc ED said:
My simple question is is D2 Stainless Steel.
Click to expand...

The problem is it's not a simple question :)
AFAIK it's not like anything above 13% chromium never rusts and anything below does, it's a more or less arbitrary line in a gray area. My D2 knives haven't rusted yet and don't develop a patina, so I'd say it's definitely closer to stainless.
 
MT Damascus said:
D2 is an alloyed tool steel, therefore it is not simply a carbon steel. Carbon steels are 10xx steels, any alloying elements other than carbon makes it an alloyed steel, and those fall into categories. Tool steel should have been a category for choice. 13% chromium makes it stainless, D2 is 12%


Kris
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Bingo. The composition of D2 is so far away from that of "carbon steel", that putting D2 in the "carbon steel" category was really not an option.

By some definitions, D2 has enough chromium to be included in the "stainless" category. By others it doesn't. But it is so far away from the true definition of "Carbon Steel" that putting it in that category is very incorrect. And its sharpening characteristics are very different from those of Carbon Steel. A lot of folks like Carbon Steel because they find it so easy to sharpen. All you need is a natural stone. You will need ceramic or diamond to sharpen D2 in a reasonable amount of time.

Side note: Darn near any alloy containing iron and carbon will rust, given the correct conditions, no matter how much chromium is in it. Stainless steel is correctly named. It stains (corrodes) less. In contrast, the German name for stainless steel (Rostfrei, or Rust Free) is incorrect.
 
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Thanks Frank. I don't follow you 100% but now I do understand that D2 should not have been included with the carbon steel category.
 
Valuable discussion. Personally I voted for carbon, and despite my long-standing like of D2, I do prefer a carbon-steel for a traditional folder. I like 1095, and as Frank says, D2, while holding a good edge for a long time, is harder to sharpen than carbon steel. For me though, it'll probably be the pattern and size, rather than the steel, which will be the deciding factor. I'd be perfectly happy with whatever steel is chosen I think.
 
This was a tough vote for me because I love a nice natural patina, however I'm a complete sucker for premium stainless. I voted for high end stainless but upon voting I see that carbon has the lead... I am not dissapointed by this. :)
 
I voted for premium stainless, just because it hasn't been done lately.

Ed J
 
Technically to be steel you have to have carbon. So a more descriptive definition of 10xx steel would be "Simple" steel.
 
I chose "Premium Stainless" because that's where to D2 is listed.

That said, D2 is not a stainless steel, and in this day and age 440C hardly qualifies as a premium stainless; I see a flaw in the whole poll set-up.




Big Mike
 
Big Mike said:
I chose "Premium Stainless" because that's where to D2 is listed.

That said, D2 is not a stainless steel, and in this day and age 440C hardly qualifies as a premium stainless; I see a flaw in the whole poll set-up.
Big Mike
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True, even ATS-34 and 154-CM are not considered top end steel now. S30V is the ground floor for premium these days.
 
Really, outside of 1095, it comes down to which company can produce a knife with which steel. Great Eastern can produce a knife with 1095, O1 and 440C. Queen can produce a knife with 1095, D2 and 420HC. CSC can produce a knife with D2, 440C and 420HC, maybe 1095?

I really appreciate what the pollsters are doing, as it is a time consuming process. However, when I first saw the poll, I didn't see as big an issue but did puzzle at why D2 was considered stainless, and why 440C was considered premium. Can this poll be closed, and another one created? I don't think it needs to be done, but if it comes down to it, here's an idea...Carbon steels, ie 1095 (does anyone use 1084? maybe CV?)
Stainless steels (420HC and 440C)
Tool steels (D2 and O1)

After typing all of that, I have to thank the pollsters and mods again. Herding cats looks to be exasperating business.
I believe that premium stainless steels, such as Queens ATS34 or the Case Bose 154CM should be left out of the running altogether.
 
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Canal Street also uses quite a bit of US made Latrobe 14-4CrMo, which is identical to the Japanese ATS34. CSC uses this steel on many of their knives, including one of their least expensive models (the Half Moon Trapper).
 
confucius37 said:
Canal Street also uses quite a bit of US made Latrobe 14-4CrMo, which is identical to the Japanese ATS34. CSC uses this steel on many of their knives, including one of their least expensive models (the Half Moon Trapper).
Click to expand...

I thought that was a Chinese made steel (all of the CrMo), thanks for the information. Sounds good.
 
It's already been explained why D2 was lumped with Stainless. The term "premium" might better have been "upgraded". That would mean upgraded from 420HC.

We can't get a knife, within the price range that folks are willing to spend, and offer ATS-34, S30V, 154CM etc etc. We'd like to see as many of our community be able to get a knife as possible.

The poll is what it is, and I for one want to thank the guys running it. If 5 people hadn't volunteered, after the call went out, there'd be no forum knife this year.

I, and I'm pretty sure the other folks involved in this years endeavor, don't appreciate being on the receiving end of some of the comments made here.

Chill out folks.
 
99 percent of my traditional knives are 1095. I am always more than happy with it and it is more traditional IMHO. I would like O1 too after trying Gec's works with it. If D2 was seperate I would have chosen it just for something different but more thinking it would mean Queen made knives?

Anyhow I'm happy even if 440c is chosen. I hope I come off to show its not a big deal to me.

Thanks to the group.

Kevin
 
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