2018 #82 Dixie Stockman and Possum Skinner Run

I found it a couple bucks cheaper at another one so I went ahead and got a backup. I'll probably have to get the bone now so I can save a matching set and start thinking like a hoard...er uhh hmmm I mean collector :D
 
Mike's rating of the action as a "2 out of 5" has me quite apprehensive about my possum skinner now. Especially since the stockman was a 3 out of 5.
 
rating a knife’s ‘action’ and ‘pull weight’ is not a black art. It is simple physics - and a lot simpler and more scientific than some folks make it out to be. The principles are set out here http://www.npl.co.uk/upload/pdf/forceguide.pdf and apply equally to any task which involves measuring the force needed to move an object.

If a knife is rated a 4/10 as a pull weight and a 2/5 on a walk, I think this is simply saying the pull force and the closing force are the same - which they should be - and the blade is opening and closing cleanly against the force of the spring without interruption. By that reasoning, the walk rating should only rate ‘less’ than the given pull rating if the walk is affected by excess friction in the joint - such as when the bolsters are over tightened or there is material clogging the joint.

From what people are saying, I expect this knife has roughly the samue pull weight as most large stockmans have.

So we should be good!
 
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rockgolfer said:
I found it a couple bucks cheaper at another one so I went ahead and got a backup. I'll probably have to get the bone now so I can save a matching set and start thinking like a hoard...er uhh hmmm I mean collector :D
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:eek: passel of possums ;)

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Excited about the possum skinner, but holding out for the elderberry. Hopefully they will drop in the next week or two.
 
Ajd3530 said:
Mike's rating of the action as a "2 out of 5" has me quite apprehensive about my possum skinner now. Especially since the stockman was a 3 out of 5.
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Tidioute Stockman was a 3; but the NF's were a 2. This rating is because it is a rather small spring and the joints are very tight - thus most I have seen have a bit of resistance in the last bit of blade opening (closing is fine).

Camillus said:
rating a knife’s ‘action’ and ‘pull weight’ is not a black art. It is simple physics - and a lot simpler and more scientific than some folks make it out to be. The principles are set out here http://www.npl.co.uk/upload/pdf/forceguide.pdf and apply equally to any task which involves measuring the force needed to move an object.

If a knife is rated a 4/10 as a pull weight and a 2/5 on a walk, I think this is simply saying the pull force and the closing force are the same - which they should be - and the blade is opening and closing cleanly against the force of the spring without interruption. By that reasoning, the walk rating should only rate ‘less’ than the given pull rating if the walk is affected by excess friction in the joint - such as when the bolsters are over tightened or there is material clogging the joint.

From what people are saying, I expect this knife has roughly the samue pull weight as most large stockmans have.

So we should be good!
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Below is the pertinent paragraph from my blog article.

"So going forward, on slipjoints, my intention is to list “Pull”, “Action”, and “Spring Pressure”. Pull is the perceived strength of the opening of the main blade from the designed nail nick, from 1 (blade flops in the wind) to 10 (blade is welded shut). Action is the perceived “walk” of the knife, the flow and spring force throughout the full motion of opening / closing; from 1 (the blade has to be pushed open/closed) to 5 (keep your fingers out of the way). Spring Pressure will be the actual maximum poundage reading to get the blade from full open to half open."
 
Mike I read that blog post and I think its a good idea that you are doing this, and it will be appreciated by those who make knife choices based on this information.

I mostly agree with your scale but I would differ on this part:

Action is the perceived “walk” of the knife, the flow and spring force throughout the full motion of opening / closing; from 1 (the blade has to be pushed open/closed) to 5 (keep your fingers out of the way).

I think the last explanation ‘5 (keep your fingers out of the way)’ is mixing up the pull strength with the smoothness. A knife can have low pull strength and yet still have good walk, and vice versa.

Also, I would remove the ‘perceived’ aspect of these ratings. They are all measurable qualities - as your force meter has demonstrated.
 
Camillus said:
Action is the perceived “walk” of the knife, the flow and spring force throughout the full motion of opening / closing; from 1 (the blade has to be pushed open/closed) to 5 (keep your fingers out of the way).

I think the last explanation ‘5 (keep your fingers out of the way)’ is mixing up the pull strength with the smoothness. A knife can have low pull strength and yet still have good walk, and vice versa.

Also, I would remove the ‘perceived’ aspect of these ratings. They are all measurable qualities - as your force meter has demonstrated.
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I have experienced plenty of knives that had a pull on the lower end of my scale; but popped from full open to half stop with much more authority than anticipated. I don't have a rating for "smoothness"; only a flow created by spring force end to end. So, if the spring force transitions the blade outside what one would anticipate - keep your fingers out of the way.

Also, the "perceived" aspect is key because nobody has ever come up with a true agreed measurement - specifically where to measure / how to measure. I see people all the time rating a knife and 8 that I have rated a 6 - it is not universally measurable.
 
knifeswapper said:
I have experienced plenty of knives that had a pull on the lower end of my scale; but popped from full open to half stop with much more authority than anticipated. I don't have a rating for "smoothness"; only a flow created by spring force end to end. So, if the spring force transitions the blade outside what one would anticipate - keep your fingers out of the way.

Also, the "perceived" aspect is key because nobody has ever come up with a true agreed measurement - specifically where to measure / how to measure. I see people all the time rating a knife and 8 that I have rated a 6 - it is not universally measurable.
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Wow Mike. You rock. I applaud you for even trying to rate your knives. I think your system is pretty good.

The hardest part seems to be in when the knife starts to snap into place, during its opening rotation, and how hard that brief snap is. The "when" would only be measured as an angle, which is meaningless to most customers. The actually snap during the rotation is so brief, it seems as though it would be very difficult to objectively measure.

I have a Camillus that opens approximately with what most people would probably call a 5 or 6. The same as most any GEC #15. But the magic happens when the main blade snaps into place, very close to the end of opening sequence. The pull strength absolutely disappears, and the snap is so fast and hard, you can't help but get a huge grin on your face. It also makes the knife's frame ring like a bell. The snap is much stronger than you'd ever guess that you'd get from a knife with a pull of 5 or 6. But the snap is so brief, you don't have to worry about tearing off the end of your fingernail. The Camillus closes in much the same way, with that brief hard snap and ringing sound.
 
One rating I'd like to see is the effort it takes to overcome the half stop. GECs are easy enough to get to half stop with the nail mark, but opening it the rest of the way can be a bear on some of them. Especially if your fingers are slippery or wracked with arthritis pain that day. Riding the nail mark all the way open is an option, but sometimes with a wicked snap it will tear apart the finger nail. This is the one area that Case knives have an advantage over GECs, they have lighter pulls, smoother half stops, and great snap open and closed. Either that or we push on the blade edge with our thumb like Mike, but I ain't doing that. Lol
 
JohnDF said:
This is the one area that Case knives have an advantage over GECs, they have lighter pulls, smoother half stops, and great snap open and closed.
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Except for the Case Backpocket knife. That model is absolutely evil in this regard. I think Backpockets have claimed more fingernail tips than any other knives in my collection. The knife springs at the speed of light to the half stop, ripping off the fingernail tip. Then it snaps like crazy to the open position, ripping off the rest of the nail. I think the Backpocket's very long blade makes the probably twice as bad, since there's so much more travel than you'd have with a smaller knife. I still love my Backpockets though, and have quite a few of them. Awesome knives. I just wish they could pinched open, so my nails were safe.
 
JohnDF said:
One rating I'd like to see is the effort it takes to overcome the half stop. GECs are easy enough to get to half stop with the nail mark, but opening it the rest of the way can be a bear on some of them. Especially if your fingers are slippery or wracked with arthritis pain that day. Riding the nail mark all the way open is an option, but sometimes with a wicked snap it will tear apart the finger nail. This is the one area that Case knives have an advantage over GECs, they have lighter pulls, smoother half stops, and great snap open and closed. Either that or we push on the blade edge with our thumb like Mike, but I ain't doing that. Lol
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I have always opened my knives in the same manner as Mike, pushing on the edge. I don't care how sharp they are, it has never been a problem, for me. It seems funny that so many are absolutely freaked out by it!:)
 
I asked a dealer to check the action for me and send me one with a stiffer snap if possible.

Here is a snip from the email..... "Just to let you know, I checked all the Skinners I received and in my opinion, all have a pull of 5 or 6 on a scale of 10. The snap to close is good."

Sounds about perfect to me :)
 
rockgolfer said:
I asked a dealer to check the action for me and send me one with a stiffer snap if possible.

Here is a snip from the email..... "Just to let you know, I checked all the Skinners I received and in my opinion, all have a pull of 5 or 6 on a scale of 10. The snap to close is good."

Sounds about perfect to me :)
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I agree with them. As long as the exact wording is used "The snap to close is good". My actual assessment above was "most I have seen have a bit of resistance in the last bit of blade opening (closing is fine)"
 
Skinner on the way. It occurs to me that snap action depends on both spring strength and tang shape. So a snappy action over the last bit of travel might be possible with a less than beefy spring
 
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