30 Degree Edge Angle on Hard Use INFI?

Sethrotull said:
All I will say is; I believe Jerry will do what he feels is right, and you can include Dan in that as well. The Bussekin warranty is by far the best in my book.
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Actually Bark River and Esee has it beat.
 
jeepin said:
I have been thinking about the Unintentional Warranty which covers everything except if you deliberately tried to break the knife. Im pretty sure he reprofiled it so it would be a better slicer. He didnt think it would damage the blade. Therefore wouldnt that be called unintentional damage :confused:
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Well, re-profiling the tip is not helping anything. Tip's are only good for penetrating not cutting. A penetrator swedge is all that would have been needed.
 
Cobalt said:
Well, re-profiling the tip is not helping anything. Tip's are only good for penetrating not cutting. A penetrator swedge is all that would have been needed.
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Oh. I didnt realize it was just the tip he reprofiled. Must have missed that part.
 
jeepin said:
Oh. I didnt realize it was just the tip he reprofiled. Must have missed that part.
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It may have been more than the tip, but that was the failure me thinks. Regardless, busse covers usage of any kind. Changing their design isn't. It may not be the best warranty, but it is certainly understandable. For example, throwing is considered abuse by most makers. But that is covered.
 
jeepin said:
I have been thinking about the Unintentional Warranty which covers everything except if you deliberately tried to break the knife. Im pretty sure he reprofiled it so it would be a better slicer. He didnt think it would damage the blade. Therefore wouldnt that be called unintentional damage :confused:
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As I understand it that is not a correct statement. I'm trying to recall an instance where someone intentionally broke a knife and then tried to send it in for warranty, and I can't remember any. All of the instances where someone broke a knife intentionally (noss, the 50cal rifle shot), they had no intention of ever using the warranty. I can't say with certainty whether busse would warranty it or not, but I don't think they should if the sole intent was to destroy the knife, or to see what happened during it's progress towards intended destruction.

The reason this isn't covered is not because it was 'intentionally broken', it's because it was modified in a way that caused it to break as a direct result of the modification. If I take a hacksaw and put a big cut in the spine to make a band breaker and the knife snaps right where I cut it because it induced a stress risor - it isn't covered because the modification is what broke it. If I throw the thin in an oven and cook it at 1000 degree's for 10 hours, then the heat treatment is compromised and the knife failed because of it. If I punch holes in the blade to lighten it up and it breaks during a bending test because there wasn't enough metal to sustain the blade - that modification is what broke it.

The idea behind it is that Jerry only wants to warranty the product and the work that his shop has done. The testing he's done on his blades and steel have lead him to put out the knife in a configuration that he knows will work and trusts enough to warranty. If someone significantly changes that configuration it's no longer the one that jerry put out, it may be one that he would never let leave the shop because he knows that it's bound to break with moderately hard use - as is the case with a tips edge thats ground to 10 degrees per side.

I knew the limits of the warranty, but I think this is the first time I've seen it actually implemented.
 
Last Visible Canary said:
I knew the limits of the warranty, but I think this is the first time I've seen it actually implemented.
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Looks like it might be the first time period.

Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Busse

We have NEVER refused to fix or replace any Busse knife for free. . . . Never Ever!!!!!. . . . No matter what the circumstances. . . . .
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But then, i doubt anyone has ever managed to screw up a knife quite like i did either... :(

What it comes down to is, what i did caused the failure through no fault of the company or the knife itself. I screwed up, and Jerry made the very reasonable call that it was not covered by warranty
 
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[edit] scratch what I wrote, probably not a good idea to discuss other manufacturers warranty's here. Busses warranty, even with the stipulation on modifications that cause breakages, is still an excellent warranty.
 
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Goddman man, you took off an insane amount of INFI off by hand, i don't envy the effort that took. Also, condolences on your unfortunate loss and subsequent lesson. I made a few attempts with a DMT aligner and realized i wanted nothing to do with aligner systems.

There have been several posts discussing the issues caused by pivot/aligner based sharpening systems. A lot of things can effect the actual angle of the "regrind" in this case, including the length of the knife and the location of the clamp, and if the blade is set perfectly perpendicular to the base of the unit, and the curve of the belly and tip of the blade. There is also geometry of arc's involved that I'm not smart enough to explain/fully understand. You are basically sharpening a strait edge with an arc, and further the edge extends beyond the nominal (measured/gauged) radius of the arc, the more acute the resulting angle.

I'm not defending anyone here, but if he removed as much metal as i think he did, that could qualify as a "major modification."

The question is whether re-profiling should be considered a "major modification," but maybe the question should be, "how much metal did you remove?" I think this is more relevant at the end of the day than the manner in which you removed that metal (assuming you didn't heat the steel and ruin the temper), or the original intention.

I just got a BubbleJig and this thing is amazing. Its a bubble level on a magnet with a pivot. once you attach the magnet to the side of the blade, you set the blade to the angle you want, lock down the pivot, and you are good to go. Since its always parallel to the blade it shouldn't suffer from the issues of pivot-point, arc, blade length, etc. He sells it for grinding, but my playing around with it has shown very promising results on bench stones.

sorry for your loss...
 
jeepin said:
Actually Bark River and Esee has it beat.
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So they would cover a modded knife? Even if the mod led to the damage? Can you point to any examples? Not to take anything away from ESEE or BRK, but it is hard to imagine that their warranty is any less than Busse, in actual practice.

Let's recall some cases:

Knife shot with a .308. Covered.

Skinny Game Warden used as a pry bar; broken tip. Covered.

Skeleton Key stabbed into a log and kicked; broken tip. Covered.

Swamp Rat (M6?) beaten with a pipe wrench for hours until it broke. Covered.
 
tatteredmidnight said:
Goddman man, you took off an insane amount of INFI off by hand, i don't envy the effort that took. Also, condolences on your unfortunate loss and subsequent lesson. I made a few attempts with a DMT aligner and realized i wanted nothing to do with aligner systems.

There have been several posts discussing the issues caused by pivot/aligner based sharpening systems. A lot of things can effect the actual angle of the "regrind" in this case, including the length of the knife and the location of the clamp, and if the blade is set perfectly perpendicular to the base of the unit, and the curve of the belly and tip of the blade. There is also geometry of arc's involved that I'm not smart enough to explain/fully understand. You are basically sharpening a strait edge with an arc, and further the edge extends beyond the nominal (measured/gauged) radius of the arc, the more acute the resulting angle.

I'm not defending anyone here, but if he removed as much metal as i think he did, that could qualify as a "major modification."

The question is whether re-profiling should be considered a "major modification," but maybe the question should be, "how much metal did you remove?" I think this is more relevant at the end of the day than the manner in which you removed that metal (assuming you didn't heat the steel and ruin the temper), or the original intention.

I just got a BubbleJig and this thing is amazing. Its a bubble level on a magnet with a pivot. once you attach the magnet to the side of the blade, you set the blade to the angle you want, lock down the pivot, and you are good to go. Since its always parallel to the blade it shouldn't suffer from the issues of pivot-point, arc, blade length, etc. He sells it for grinding, but my playing around with it has shown very promising results on bench stones.

sorry for your loss...
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Bark River will cover ANY damage. Even Intentional damage. I could cut one in 100 pieces and they would replace it. Mike Stewart (owner of Bark River Knives) says the only thing not covered is if a badger gets a hold of it. Ya I know, pretty stupid. The other thing that amazes me about Bark river is that they will refinish the knife for free whenever you want. You just have to pay shipping back to you.

I personally have only had to use their warranty once. It was on a bravo 1 in A2. I wanted to chop open a coconut. When I was done it looked like the edge was attached by a chainsaw. I sent it in, and when I got it back it looked perfect. You could not tell it was ever damaged. I was amazed..
 
resinguy said:
So they would cover a modded knife? Even if the mod led to the damage? Can you point to any examples? Not to take anything away from ESEE or BRK, but it is hard to imagine that their warranty is any less than Busse, in actual practice.

Let's recall some cases:

Knife shot with a .308. Covered.

Skinny Game Warden used as a pry bar; broken tip. Covered.

Skeleton Key stabbed into a log and kicked; broken tip. Covered.

Swamp Rat (M6?) beaten with a pipe wrench for hours until it broke. Covered.
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Yup. The owners of Esee will just call you a dumbass and send you another one:D.

The problem is, that their are a**holes that break the knives just to get a new one. That really, really pisses me off:mad:

Sooner or later if people start abusing the warranties like that, they will be forced to change their policy.
 
And this thread died soon as the statements about Esee having a better warranty than Busse and Mike Stewart honoring ALL warranty instances

Lock er' down
 
M67 said:
And this thread died soon as the statements about Esee having a better warranty than Busse and Mike Stewart honoring ALL warranty instances

Lock er' down
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Yeah, the parts about esee were utterly irrelevant to the actual situation. Locking it doesn't solve that. This is an ongoing warranty/repair issue for a busse knife, and i'd prefer to keep the thread open rather than have to start a new thread dealing with the warranty/repair work

Let's stay on topic :)
 
I didnt mean to upset anyone by talking about the other companies here. I apologize for that.
 
tatteredmidnight said:
None of this changes how tired BePrepaired arms must have been.
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You have no idea. It took me about 5 hours to get it done... it was straight razor sharp though. I was VERY happy with it, until i snapped

Seth, why don't you run along. Snide comments really don't add to the conversation any more than your one star rating does :)
 
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