30 Degree Edge Angle on Hard Use INFI?

well, mine came CLEAN OFF

I was stabbing and hacking into a board, and went through it a couple of times. On the last time, i felt a serious DING and the tip of the knife was just gone... about 1/4 inch, maybe a little more. There is a bit of damage to the edge from about 1 inch below the tip, to the broken section. I think it probably glanced off of the rock that i hit without me noticing it and i managed to squarely hit it the last time.

This is in NO WAY a criticism of INFI.... it's a very clear criticism of me being an utter moron for thinning the edge and tip that much.

I don't know if they're going to replace the knife, or somehow fix the tip (i'm hoping they replace it because fixing it will leave my knife a good but shorter and with very different geometry) but either way, Busse has the best warranty in the industry.
 
Any before and after pictures? One with the 30degree edge and one with the broken tip?
 
richstag said:
Any before and after pictures? One with the 30degree edge and one with the broken tip?
Click to expand...

unfortunately, I didn't take any pictures before i packed it up, but I don't think i'd really want to post pictures anyway, since Busse haters would likely spread it around without explaining how the damage occurred.
 
Silly Busse Haters. Sorry I did not mention leaving the tip strong until after you broke it off. When I use my belt sander I just change the angle of the edge when I want to keep areas beefier than others. Can you do this with the work sharp? How will you sharpen it up when you get it back? Any ideas?
 
That seems a bit odd. I thinned my CG TG quite a bit, and hammered it (with a 2lb steel hammer) through some 1/8" steel plate tip first with ZERO damage.

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richstag said:
Silly Busse Haters. Sorry I did not mention leaving the tip strong until after you broke it off. When I use my belt sander I just change the angle of the edge when I want to keep areas beefier than others. Can you do this with the work sharp? How will you sharpen it up when you get it back? Any ideas?
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I don't know if i WILL sharpen it again. If they replace it, i'll probably sharpen it to 40 degrees and leave the tip at the original angle just polishing it.

if they just do a full reprofile, i'm going to lose nearly a half inch of length and a substantial amount of width in the blade, so i don't have a clue what that'll do to my blade geometry, but i can't imagine it will be anything good.
 
Tyrade, mine was WAY thinner than that. What angle is it? mine had and edge width twice that wide at the tip, maybe more

I'm really wondering if the WE didn't go below 30degrees inclusive at the tip. The edge was a good bit wider at the tip than in the blade proper.
 
I bet they will replace it but I am not sure. They do have the best service in the business. Again, I don't want to get your hopes up. Busse can do anything well though and maybe it would be Garth that repairs it? He could always make it a sweet variant dropping the point a bit?

IDK. This is assuming they do not find something wrong with the knife and they repair it.
 
BePrepared said:
Tyrade, mine was WAY thinner than that. What angle is it? mine had and edge width twice that wide at the tip, maybe more

I'm really wondering if the WE didn't go below 30degrees inclusive at the tip. The edge was a good bit wider at the tip than in the blade proper.
Click to expand...

I have never used a WS but that was kind of why I wanted to see a photo. Of course if you hold 30 degree the bevel will widen towards the tip as the full height grind increases thickness, but I would like to see a pic of before at least.
 
richstag said:
I have never used a WS but that was kind of why I wanted to see a photo. Of course if you hold 30 degree the bevel will widen towards the tip as the full height grind increases thickness, but I would like to see a pic of before at least.
Click to expand...

unfortunately, i didn't take any pics of my sharpening job before beating on it, and it's all wrapped up and ready to ship tomorrow. The entire knife was sharpened on 15 degrees per side following the Wicked Edge instructions. I am a novice at using it, but i managed to get it hair popping sharp from tip to Choil. The edge at the tip was about 2 times as high as the edge at the choil, but by the time i realized this was happening, it was already cutting the base of the new edge angle so it was too late to turn back.

The picture below is my Azrael, which was sharpened similarly, and has a similar final edge shape.

This one ended up hair splitting sharp by the way.

The edge was done at 35 Degrees, but the look is the same

qxmq9u.jpg
 
richstag said:
Silly Busse Haters. Sorry I did not mention leaving the tip strong until after you broke it off. When I use my belt sander I just change the angle of the edge when I want to keep areas beefier than others. Can you do this with the work sharp? How will you sharpen it up when you get it back? Any ideas?
Click to expand...

Busse haters?

Probably just jealous.
 
IF you decide to continue thinning out future blades, I would recommend dropping the angle very slowly and stopping once you've achieved what your goal was with reprofiling....

Just remember a little bit goes a long way..... and too much thinning equals problems.
 
aaaa_cccc said:
IF you decide to continue thinning out future blades, I would recommend dropping the angle very slowly and stopping once you've achieved what your goal was with reprofiling....

Just remember a little bit goes a long way..... and too much thinning equals problems.
Click to expand...

Lol i think i have learned enough to never make that same stupid mistake twice. Breaking the tip off the knife i had been talking about for days was a tiny bit embarrassing.
 
BePrepared said:
Lol i think i have learned enough to never make that same stupid mistake twice. Breaking the tip off the knife i had been talking about for days was a tiny bit embarrassing.
Click to expand...

You learned better than most ever will. Don't be embarrassed. Sometimes really learning comes through personal experience and loss. You can read about it all you want but it really sets in when you figure it out for yourself.

Good luck
 
BePrepared said:
Lol i think i have learned enough to never make that same stupid mistake twice. Breaking the tip off the knife i had been talking about for days was a tiny bit embarrassing.
Click to expand...

We all make mistakes, all you can do is learn from them and do your best to not repeat them.

I wouldn't be surprised if Busse sent you a brand new one....

But even if they repaired yours, you should still have a useable geometry because it is hollow ground.:)
 
The problem with your edge grinds is present in all "aligner" sharpening systems, including the WE. The guide-angle is only accurate for "position zero" (where you place the clamp) for knives of specific spine-to-edge width. Once you pivot the hones away from "position zero", the angle of contact between hone & edge reduces, resulting in a finer edge after much more work (metal removal) farther from the clamp, and a tapering grind angle such that the angle is not uniform along the length of the blade. But the system also has a built-in solution for this! Instead of clamping near the heel of the blade, clamp closer to the tip in the midst of the sweep. Then the system's hone set-angle will apply to that section of the blade, giving you your 15 dps in the sweep and tip, and lowering the angle closer to the choil. You still have a non-uniform bevel angle, but the edge is more robust up front for chopping & stabbing, and it is thinner for increased cutting efficiency nearer the heel. Many experienced users put such 'multi-grinds' on their large work knives; and "nightmare" and other more dramatic 'multi-grinds' can be found on WSK-style knives.

Good luck with your resolution!
 
The problem with a sharpening system that supposedly sets an angle for you is that it still requires the operator to calculate/compensate for the limitations of the system.
The following is just an example for the math:
A 30* angle measuring the edge at 3 inches away from the mounting point of the sharpening stone while sharpening the edge will no longer be a 30* angle when you move the stone out to the tip which is now, let's say, 4 inches away from the mounting point if the mounting point to the angle remains at 2 inches vertical. Using those numbers, the edge will be sharpened at 30* for as long as the stone is perpendicular to the edge, but if the tip is not set at the exact same distance as the edge and instead is an inch further away, the angle would now be a much thinner 22.5* which, due to being much narrower, looks much wider at the tip than on the more obtusely sharpened edge as your picture demonstrates.

This is where learning to maintain the same angle is key to getting good at sharpening/stropping/polishing without overthinning to a dangerous level.
 
well, now that i know, i'll have to learn how to accomodate those changes in angle.


For the moment, i'm more concerned by how they're going to handle the issue. I know they'll make it right either way.
 
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