4 months too long for a refund?

[roughedges]

ooitzoo most likely didn't know it either since the blade profile looks exactly the same in the middle picture as in the last, at least to my eye. Unless one is a serious Chris Reeve collector, or has a nib Insingo to compare it to, it would be very difficult for anyone to tell.

Four months plus both parties confirmation of happy trade at the time of the trade. The knife profile has definitely changed from what can be received from the factory but, in my opinion, there's no way that ooitzoo should be responsible at this point.

 

[jeepin]

ooitzoo,
Very well stated..............
That ship has sailed
IMHO you don't owe anybody anything

Exactly.

 

[pwerfel]

I would be too embarrassed to ask for such a refund.... just sayin....

 

[kram115]

KRAM confirmed for me that he was happy with the insigno.

Then he sends me an email demanding that I pay him $350 for the knife.

To be absolutely clear, the knife that I sent to Karm was described honestly and accurately. He confirmed this to be the case. I don't know what took place in the last 4-5 months with the Seb but at the end of the day it's not my responsibility.

I never said "its too late"; what I did say was "once you confirm that the knife meets expectations the trade is done."

I have emails to back all of this up if necessary.

Yes, I was obviously happy with it when I received it and have been until I was told of it's major flaw.

I didn't demand $350... here's my email:
"The insingo is being sent back to me and unfortunately I'm going to have to ask you for a refund as well. For what I paid, its condition is unacceptable. I found the sale thread you got it from and from the picture it looks like you purchased it over sharpened as well so you can talk to [Matt] if you're so inclined. I realize none of this is your fault, but I hope you understand. As far as the refund, it looks like you paid $[XXX] for the insingo, while I traded the Tuff + $90 for it. I purchased the tuff for $260 but you valued it at $220. So that's either $350 or $310 I paid for the insingo. Since it's been a while since our transaction and you were unaware of it's condition, I'll go with the lesser value. I'll either accept $310 paypal gift or the tuff + $50 in exchange for returning the insingo."

The knife was described honestly, but not accurately. You can see in ooitzoo's picture that it is already flawed while he described it as "perfect lock up / F&F / function." Like I said before I don't think he knew of the flaw so he was being honest when he said this, he was however being inaccurate.

"it's been ~5months since our trade. I'm afraid I cannot accept the insigno back nor offer a refund" means "too late"

I have the emails as well...

 

[Grease]

I'd say going purely off the average US return policy, you're too late. 60-90 days for most items, and a lot less than that for knives/tools, is the norm. If you were happy with it, whether you used it or not, beyond that point it is not the sellers problem any more.

 

[kawr]

I would have to say 4 months is a bit too long to offer a full refund. That said, I dont care if you are new to CRKs and ignorant, it doesnt excuse you from the fact that nearly half the blade has been sharpened away. I mean it looks like someone put a benchmade 940 reverse tanto blade on the sebby. This is a gross misrepresentation of the state of the knife. Its like selling a car and saying it is only 2 years old and like new but you dont disclose the fact that it has 200k miles on it. Just a shame for all parties involved because I dont think its completely fair to have the seller give a full refund at this point.

 

[kram115]

Just out of curiosity, how the hell does KARM know where I purchased the insigno?

Before another party gets brought into this, I will say the following: I cannot confirm or deny (without further research) that this came from another party on the forum. What I will say is that, if it came from another party, that party is unrelated to this dispute. I gave him my confirmation that I was happy with his knife and, as such, there is no reason to involve them. Unlike some, I believe my word is worth something when I say "I am happy with this".

I used the search bar... pretty easy to find.

You're getting very hostile. Can you please calm down a bit? I was told by a moderator to start this thread, I didn't want to. I was hoping the mod would make a decision. I don't want to involve the original owner either, hell I tried not involving you! I was expecting this thread to be a civil discussion to resolve our problem but now you're attacking me.

 

[Raphael.caluwe]

imo, there were pictures, everyone knew what to expect, no need for refunds. you shouldnt have refunded your buyer, since there were pics and he shouldve knewn what to expect

 

[kram115]

I would have to say 4 months is a bit too long to offer a full refund. That said, I dont care if you are new to CRKs and ignorant, it doesnt excuse you from the fact that nearly half the blade has been sharpened away. I mean it looks like someone put a benchmade 940 reverse tanto blade on the sebby. This is a gross misrepresentation of the state of the knife. Its like selling a car and saying it is only 2 years old and like new but you dont disclose the fact that it has 200k miles on it. Just a shame for all parties involved because I dont think its completely fair to have the seller give a full refund at this point.

I would gladly accept a replacement blade instead of a full refund.

 

[kram115]

imo, there were pictures, everyone knew what to expect, no need for refunds. you shouldnt have refunded your buyer, since there were pics and he shouldve knewn what to expect

I disagree. My buyer deserved a refund. My pictures didn't accurately enough show how much of the blade was gone.

 

[roughedges]

As I see it, he didn't attack you, Kram, and certainly didn't get very hostile. If you in fact said anything along the lines of, "I am happy with this." anything that comes after should be on you and not his responsibility, imo. If you'd noticed the blade had been reshaped prior to finalizing the deal it would be an entirely different story. It is unfortunate but I think also the way it needs to be.

 

[dinokay]

There is still value in the insingo and the hit is not $300 plus dollars. Just send it back to the mother ship for a spa treatment and replace the blade (+/- $150.00) if it bothers you or use the sh*t out of it and then send it back for a spa treatment. Question is if you tried to sell it after a year or two and then realized the same thing, would you still ask for a refund? At some point you have to take responsibility for not knowing what your doing or not doing the research.

 

[Raphael.caluwe]

well you can disagree, but the pictures clearly show that the blade is half gone. it is severly over sharpened and by comparing it to a pc on a retailers site, you clearly see it is not in original state. Nobody ever said that the blade was over sharpened and the buyer has responsibilities to investigate as well (this is not an opinion, but a general principle of law). If ooizo was indeed not fraudulous and truthful, then he cannot be blamed for your mistake wich at the end of the day it is. Ditto with the person that bought it from you.

 

[kram115]

Question is if you tried to sell it after a year or two and then realized the same thing, would you still ask for a refund?

Probably not. I'd agree that a year or two would be too long but I'm asking is 4 months too long. Also, I'd like to point out that this isn't about my sale failing, that was just the circumstance in which I found out about the blade.

 

[pwerfel]

Kram,

You asking in 4 months is 4 months too late, IMHO...Sellers on this forum that take four months to refund people are reprehensible. You asking for one, at this point, is simple chutzpah. The fact that the moderator encouraged you to post does not help you as you already asked the other member for the refund.

I suspect that most reading this thread would remember you and would hesitate in doing a deal with you in the future.... I know I certainly will...


Good Luck

P

 

[ooitzoo]

ooitzoo,
Very well stated..............
That ship has sailed
IMHO you don't owe anybody anything

ooitzoo most likely didn't know it either since the blade profile looks exactly the same in the middle picture as in the last, at least to my eye. Unless one is a serious Chris Reeve collector, or has a nib Insingo to compare it to, it would be very difficult for anyone to tell.

Four months plus both parties confirmation of happy trade at the time of the trade. The knife profile has definitely changed from what can be received from the factory but, in my opinion, there's no way that ooitzoo should be responsible at this point.

Exactly.

I would be too embarrassed to ask for such a refund.... just sayin....

These more or less sum up my feeling on this debacle. How can I possibly be responsible for a knife after Kram has owned it for 4 months.

I'd say going purely off the average US return policy, you're too late. 60-90 days for most items, and a lot less than that for knives/tools, is the norm. If you were happy with it, whether you used it or not, beyond that point it is not the sellers problem any more.

While I agree with the general principle here I will say that once both parties confirm they're happy with the trade then the trade is done. No one here is expected to run an Amazon-like enterprise.

I would have to say 4 months is a bit too long to offer a full refund. That said, I dont care if you are new to CRKs and ignorant, it doesnt excuse you from the fact that nearly half the blade has been sharpened away. I mean it looks like someone put a benchmade 940 reverse tanto blade on the sebby. This is a gross misrepresentation of the state of the knife. Its like selling a car and saying it is only 2 years old and like new but you dont disclose the fact that it has 200k miles on it. Just a shame for all parties involved because I dont think its completely fair to have the seller give a full refund at this point.

The knife I sent was not missing "half the blade". It was materially like every other Insigno I've owned.

I used the search bar... pretty easy to find.

You're getting very hostile. Can you please calm down a bit? I was told by a moderator to start this thread, I didn't want to. I was hoping the mod would make a decision. I don't want to involve the original owner either, hell I tried not involving you! I was expecting this thread to be a civil discussion to resolve our problem but now you're attacking me.

I would gladly accept a replacement blade instead of a full refund.

And, apparently, one cannot possibly own more then one insigno @ a time...?

My point very simply is that this dispute is between you and I. Like I said before, I gave my confirmation that the knife I got was in expected shape to the third party that you seem obsessed with. Therefore, there is no need to involve anyone else.

I am not hostile. I simply do not have time for games. I've stated the facts dispassionately and truthfully. You've stated wild conjecture and random demands.

As I see it, he didn't attack you, Kram, and certainly didn't get very hostile. If you in fact said anything along the lines of, "I am happy with this." anything that comes after should be on you and not his responsibility, imo. If you'd noticed the blade had been reshaped prior to finalizing the deal it would be an entirely different story. It is unfortunate but I think also the way it needs to be.

There is still value in the insingo and the hit is not $300 plus dollars. Just send it back to the mother ship for a spa treatment and replace the blade (+/- $150.00) if it bothers you or use the sh*t out of it and then send it back for a spa treatment. Question is if you tried to sell it after a year or two and then realized the same thing, would you still ask for a refund? At some point you have to take responsibility for not knowing what your doing or not doing the research.

EXACTLY

well you can disagree, but the pictures clearly show that the blade is half gone. it is severly over sharpened and by comparing it to a pc on a retailers site, you clearly see it is not in original state. Nobody ever said that the blade was over sharpened and the buyer has responsibilities to investigate as well (this is not an opinion, but a general principle of law). If ooizo was indeed not fraudulous and truthful, then he cannot be blamed for your mistake wich at the end of the day it is. Ditto with the person that bought it from you.

The knife I sent was not missing half the blade; Kram has owned this for over 4 months. Need I remind folks that the knife has changed hands three times since I sent it to Kram; how am I to know what's gone on since then?

Probably not. I'd agree that a year or two would be too long but I'm asking is 4 months too long. Also, I'd like to point out that this isn't about my sale failing, that was just the circumstance in which I found out about the blade.

Well it was fine in my eyes until I found out it was flawed and technically it did show extreme degradation when I got it, I just didn't know it.

Again, you don't seem to get it -- its not a function of time. You agreed that the knife met with your expectations then tried to sell it.

Interestingly, the sale thread that Kram put up is missing the business end of the blade: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1034680-FS-CRK-Small-Insingo

 

[RICKSTER]

There is still value in the insingo and the hit is not $300 plus dollars. Just send it back to the mother ship for a spa treatment and replace the blade (+/- $150.00) if it bothers you or use the sh*t out of it and then send it back for a spa treatment. Question is if you tried to sell it after a year or two and then realized the same thing, would you still ask for a refund? At some point you have to take responsibility for not knowing what your doing or not doing the research.

Very well stated Dino
Kram, suck it up & move on..............

 

[kram115]

Ooitzoo what wild conjecture? I said I don't think you over sharpened it.

 

[rycen]

The sake of clarity did you ooitzoo get it from the same person kram115 thinks you did?

 

[ooitzoo]

Ooitzoo what wild conjecture? I said I don't think you over sharpened it.

You started with "you owe me $350" and then moved that down to "you owe me a new blade"...dude, face reality. You confirmed, at the time of the trade, that you were happy with it. I don't know what's gone on since then but its no longer my responsibility.