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4 months too long for a refund?
- Thread starter kram115
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I've explained this to folks many times. The potential "backfire" effect that posting some topics can bring. As I stated to the threads author via PM, most people knife within an hour whether the knife they received is as described. As such, they mostly know to proceed as they will to correct the issue they perceive. In this case, kram was given this information ahead of time. I have no horse in this race, aside from asking folks to keep things within a civil tone.
When buying or trading for an item, a person should always know what they are receiving. It doesn't make sense that, 4 months down the road from the time the transaction was completed, you have now discovered a flaw with the item. Yet, 4 months ago, and all throughout that time, and only until present date, did you become aware of this from the next person's hands that it moved to.
If the blade was originally received in the trade as it is currently, it did not seem ooitzoo was aware of it. Either way, and sorry to say, but it does not matter. You had time to know what you were not only receiving but also a period of inspection.
Periods of inspection can vary depending on the seller or traders. I think 72 hours is sufficient time to inspect the item is as described. Unfortunately, 4 months after the fact is not a period of inspection but a period of ownership. That said, this is further cemented by the positive feedback you left in regards to the transaction.
If the blade was originally received in the trade as it is currently, it did not seem ooitzoo was aware of it. Either way, and sorry to say, but it does not matter. You had time to know what you were not only receiving but also a period of inspection.
Periods of inspection can vary depending on the seller or traders. I think 72 hours is sufficient time to inspect the item is as described. Unfortunately, 4 months after the fact is not a period of inspection but a period of ownership. That said, this is further cemented by the positive feedback you left in regards to the transaction.
What happened to a seller being honest and fully disclosing all information before selling to an unsuspecting buyer? I find it ridiculous that someone who has been on these forums for 3 years and over 2k posts had no idea the sebenza was oversharpened to the point where there is no longer any belly left on the blade. Literally the only way you can not notice the difference is if you have never ever seen a photo of a stock insingo. Its dishonest to label such a blade as "lightly used" and to push it off on someone who may or may not have known better. OP was at fault here for being ignorant and it will cost him.
Thanks guys. This pretty much sums up my side of things.
I was honest and forthright. Whatever happened to reading the facts before passing judgement? You may find it ridiculous all you want but its funny that you haven't bothered to consider what may have happened in the 4-5 months that OP owned this knife. Your statement presupposes that the Insigno was oversharpened when it left my hands -- perhaps you need to re-evaluate that supposition. Then again, it seems like you're not too keen on figuring out facts and much more interested in throwing around accusations (in a matter, I might add, that doesn't really concern you).
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That is interesting. Even knowing what to look for now, it is almost impossible to tell from those photos that the blade profile is not what it should be. Much more difficult than in your photo, low quality though it is, or even the other one that the OP posted. I won't go so far as to call it deliberate but even that first photo certainly makes lucky use of angles.
Personally, four months is extreme. Do I think you may have gotten the #$% end of the stick?....... Yup.
Would I ask for a refund after four months? Nope.
Would I Expect a refund? Nope.
There has to be a consideration of the fact that some people are shady. Case in point:
I had some beautiful guitars. At the time, I was on National Television playing for a show, had some pocket cash and well, instead of firearms and knives being pursued, I always had guitars....
Sold one I wasn't endorsed to play on ebay and CLEARLY described, photographed a crack in the clearcoat. Sure enough, I literally all caps the description and make it go so far as describe the crack in the title... guy buys it (Rare USA made guitar)
two days later the guy asks for a refund, I ask why, he says "he's not happy"....
I again ask why, he says, it wasn't as described, I call b.s.
Now mind you at this point, I sold the guitar to pay my mortgage and flat out didn't have it to pay him back. He then files a claim with his credit card company AND paypal and Not only am I out what he paid me, it actually double draws and now, I'm out over $2,000.00
The reason he returned it? He played a show that weekend and was done needing the guitar as he had professional photographers there caption him playing it. How do I know this? He bragged about it after several heated emails when he received his money. Well I now have been reimbursed and all is well but my bottom line is, if someone receives and item and they don't inspect it, thats on them, be clear, ask for photos and understand there's a flip side to your coin as well... just my .02 ymmv
Would I ask for a refund after four months? Nope.
Would I Expect a refund? Nope.
There has to be a consideration of the fact that some people are shady. Case in point:
I had some beautiful guitars. At the time, I was on National Television playing for a show, had some pocket cash and well, instead of firearms and knives being pursued, I always had guitars....
Sold one I wasn't endorsed to play on ebay and CLEARLY described, photographed a crack in the clearcoat. Sure enough, I literally all caps the description and make it go so far as describe the crack in the title... guy buys it (Rare USA made guitar)
two days later the guy asks for a refund, I ask why, he says "he's not happy"....
I again ask why, he says, it wasn't as described, I call b.s.
Now mind you at this point, I sold the guitar to pay my mortgage and flat out didn't have it to pay him back. He then files a claim with his credit card company AND paypal and Not only am I out what he paid me, it actually double draws and now, I'm out over $2,000.00
The reason he returned it? He played a show that weekend and was done needing the guitar as he had professional photographers there caption him playing it. How do I know this? He bragged about it after several heated emails when he received his money. Well I now have been reimbursed and all is well but my bottom line is, if someone receives and item and they don't inspect it, thats on them, be clear, ask for photos and understand there's a flip side to your coin as well... just my .02 ymmv
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I said exactly what I meant to say, no conjectures stated or implied. I won't call it deliberate because I don't know, and can't prove, that you chose angles and settings that made it nearly impossible to tell that the blade had basically been reprofiled. It could only be lucky chance. Just like you don't know, and can't prove, that ooitzoo sharpened that knife or even realized that its profile was not same as stock. That sort of assumption is nothing but conjecture and not anything close to what, in my opinion, should call for any form of refund in this specific circumstance.
You agreed to the deal, finalized it by saying that you were happy and then, four months later after your sale fell through, decided to make a complaint. Would you agree that these are facts? I feel bad for you, like reignman said you got the short end of the stick, but at this point it is at least as much on you as it is on any other seller. So suck it up, call it an expensive lesson learned, and send it in to CRK to have fixed on your own dime. Or use it and be merry. That would be my advice.
I've been using and sharpening knives my whole life and how does someone go about taking that much steel off a knife that is not being used constantly
Sounds like someone somewhere down the line got a sharpening device and went to town.
4 months is to long to ask for a refund
Be an educated buyer
Sounds like someone somewhere down the line got a sharpening device and went to town.
4 months is to long to ask for a refund
Be an educated buyer
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In my opinion the OP is waiting too long to ask for a refund/replacement, especially as he said he was happy with the deal. If unfamiliar with a product I will often research it as soon as I get it. If I buy a deal and want verification on it I will be online shortly comparing my in hand product with expert opinions/descriptions found here on bladeforums. I have done that with my Emerson Mini-Commander (both times I've owned one), Benchmade AFCK, Elishewitz Kaiser, and others. Why? Mostly because they are outside my usual range of collecting, so I want to verify my purchase, even if it is a trusted member here or a person I trust locally. Mistakes happen and ignorance in the true sense abounds when concerning knives. Most people don't specialize in all types is knives, I thought the AFCK I bought was a Pika, but wasn't sure. That was one time I was glad- too good to be true isn't always the case, but it was up to me to be sure. The onus is on the buyer to know what they are buying, and research it once it is in hand. I would have denied your request for a refund as well.
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OP, point is you already said you were happy with the knife and the deal was complete at that point. Ignorance does not excuse responsibility; you completed the transaction, and it was over. You can't just rent a sebenza for four months, free of charge lol. And if I had sold/traded a knife to some one who wanted a refund four months later, I wouldn't offer one either. There's no telling what changes/damage has occured while you owned it, and I wouldn't take the chance--that's why it's your responsibility to inspect the knife WHEN YOU RECEIVE IT, and identify any problems/concerns. As far as OOITZOO, he probably should have said the knife was resharpened, but at this point the deals is done, regardless. I think most people who have posted in this thread feel similarly--this isn't netflix, and you can't rent knives.
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I don't understand how so many of you can side with the seller on this.
If I buy a $1000 Spyder ski jacket from someone and when I get it, it seems good and comfortable, and I'm happy, but then later discover that it's counterfeit and really only worth $50, do I not deserve a refund? I would be pissed that I just wasted over $900. I was expecting quality, but that's not what I got. Should I be to blame for not having expert knowledge on determining if a Spyder jacket is counterfeit or not? Even if the seller didn't know it was counterfeit, he should still refund the money.
If I buy a $1000 Spyder ski jacket from someone and when I get it, it seems good and comfortable, and I'm happy, but then later discover that it's counterfeit and really only worth $50, do I not deserve a refund? I would be pissed that I just wasted over $900. I was expecting quality, but that's not what I got. Should I be to blame for not having expert knowledge on determining if a Spyder jacket is counterfeit or not? Even if the seller didn't know it was counterfeit, he should still refund the money.
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Thanks guys. I think this all sound advise.
To be clear, I did represent that it was sharpened. Among other things I said it was used and was most definitely NOT NEW. I think I used the term "definitely a user" in one of my emails to Kram (I can check this.)
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They aren't the same thing, the Insingo in question is not a fake. To me, a more fitting comparison would be that you bought a used Spyder jacket, knew it was used, but only after a number of months noticed that it had its sleeves poorly re-stitched at some point. In a circumstance like that, an honest store has a return period. Inside that period they would accept the return, outside of the return period they no longer have any duty to accept the product back. In place of that, here on bladeforums, the rule is that "no deal is complete until both parties are satisfied". In light of this thread, perhaps the rule should be amended to include the phrase, "no backsies".
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But technically speaking, the pictures do show the blade portions that is missing, so very technically speaking, the seller did represent the item fairly. It's the buyer's responsibility to make sure what they see is what they want. if you see a blade with a broken tip, you can't buy it, and then return it four months later saying you didn't notice. Most stores around here have a limited time for you to return the purchase, usually around 3 months. Once that time is up, well it's too bad.
Additionally, the buyer/trader was happy. He did not notice, nor care about the missing steel. Although the knife isn't perfect, this flaw did not affect the buyer's opinion of the knife. It was only until he was alerted that it was missing steel that he wanted a refund- four months later. IMO, four months is too long to return a knife- the window is not open forever.
On the flip side, the seller did not represent the item as well as he should have, but he may not have known about it. Regardless, his pictures, as mentioned, do show the alteration in the knife. Morally speaking, the seller should return the money, maybe. However, realistically, the buyer lucked out on an item he should have checked. It's unfortunate, but I don't think the seller really owes anything to the buyer.
Additionally, the buyer/trader was happy. He did not notice, nor care about the missing steel. Although the knife isn't perfect, this flaw did not affect the buyer's opinion of the knife. It was only until he was alerted that it was missing steel that he wanted a refund- four months later. IMO, four months is too long to return a knife- the window is not open forever.
On the flip side, the seller did not represent the item as well as he should have, but he may not have known about it. Regardless, his pictures, as mentioned, do show the alteration in the knife. Morally speaking, the seller should return the money, maybe. However, realistically, the buyer lucked out on an item he should have checked. It's unfortunate, but I don't think the seller really owes anything to the buyer.
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Seems like we are dealing with determining which of these sides are the "lesser of two evils."
Both parties have some level of responsibility.
Neither party is solely at fault.
I have a bad taste in my mouth on both ends of the transaction.
This story is a good reminder to us all to be VERY careful with selling and trading on the forums. I have had nothing but good experiences in the deals I have been involved in--I will keep my fingers crossed.
Both parties have some level of responsibility.
Neither party is solely at fault.
I have a bad taste in my mouth on both ends of the transaction.
This story is a good reminder to us all to be VERY careful with selling and trading on the forums. I have had nothing but good experiences in the deals I have been involved in--I will keep my fingers crossed.
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