Recommendation? 440C vs D2 steel for a Ganzo knife?

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Chronovore said:
I just didn't hold their past against them.
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Worked out great with Albert Flick:rolleyes:

But seriously, why not? If they stopped offering the clones and switched to only offering their own designs then I might understand, but offering their own designs while still offering clones does not at all suggest they're trying to go legit, so why let them off the hook?
 
Chronovore said:
Here are the worst offenders I could find, for the worst offenders here.

jrr4Dmv.jpg
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All those speeches. All those walls of text. Meaningless. Just intellectualized rationalization of theft. This whole time, all you were doing was putting money into the pockets of scumbags who steel from real companies like spyderco. Enjoy your fake delica. Watch your fingers. Do you know what Karma is?
 
Chronovore said:
... we often don't know the exact past of Chinese companies, their employees, their investors, their capital, etc. Hence, the extreme vigor in wanting to punish Ganzo and any of their new products being "fruits of the poisoned tree" until the end of time seemed ridiculous to me. All I knew is that Ganzo was trying something different and it involved bringing new designs to market at a very competitive price. So I was happy to buy it and try it out.
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The above starts with a very vague statement of the obvious and ignores the fact we do know something about Ganzo and their business practices. That doesn't translate into the ensuing attempt to justify your continued support of a past and currently disreputable company.
 
Chronovore said:
It's never been about loyalty for me. In fact, I've often mentioned Ganzo's history of improperly copying designs or design elements when people ask about them. That is definitely sketchy and I've said so. It's also not a question of "knowing better now". In the post you quoted, note that my response to Ganzo's launch of a series of original knives was "Ganzo wants to make legitimate knives with original designs?" They were a company I had previously avoided because all they made were copycats.

I just didn't hold their past against them. A point I've made in other threads is that we often don't know the exact past of Chinese companies, their employees, their investors, their capital, etc. Hence, the extreme vigor in wanting to punish Ganzo and any of their new products being "fruits of the poisoned tree" until the end of time seemed ridiculous to me. All I knew is that Ganzo was trying something different and it involved bringing new designs to market at a very competitive price. So I was happy to buy it and try it out.

Deciding to argue, discuss, or explore things around this issue turned into a real headache. There are plenty of decent, logical, well-intentioned people here expressing a variety of views. However, there is a small core of folks, some firmly in the anti-Ganzo camp and some overlapped with the anti-China camp, who I've dubbed crusaders. (See my previous descriptions.) It is the zealous attitude, lack of civility, and bad or illogical arguments that have driven me here. Engaging them in logical discourse has been a bit like casting pearls before swine. So instead, I'm just turning their hate into sales and profit for the company they hate.
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I appreciate your reply, but I must disagree. When you mention their employees, I certainly wonder how they are selling their copied designs at the price they are selling for and still treating their employees properly all on the up and up, while selling these knives for less than the cost of their raw materials? o_O
 
Chronovore said:
It's never been about loyalty for me. In fact, I've often mentioned Ganzo's history of improperly copying designs or design elements when people ask about them. That is definitely sketchy and I've said so. It's also not a question of "knowing better now". In the post you quoted, note that my response to Ganzo's launch of a series of original knives was "Ganzo wants to make legitimate knives with original designs?" They were a company I had previously avoided because all they made were copycats.

I just didn't hold their past against them. A point I've made in other threads is that we often don't know the exact past of Chinese companies, their employees, their investors, their capital, etc. Hence, the extreme vigor in wanting to punish Ganzo and any of their new products being "fruits of the poisoned tree" until the end of time seemed ridiculous to me. All I knew is that Ganzo was trying something different and it involved bringing new designs to market at a very competitive price. So I was happy to buy it and try it out.

Deciding to argue, discuss, or explore things around this issue turned into a real headache. There are plenty of decent, logical, well-intentioned people here expressing a variety of views. However, there is a small core of folks, some firmly in the anti-Ganzo camp and some overlapped with the anti-China camp, who I've dubbed crusaders. (See my previous descriptions.) It is the zealous attitude, lack of civility, and bad or illogical arguments that have driven me here. Engaging them in logical discourse has been a bit like casting pearls before swine. So instead, I'm just turning their hate into sales and profit for the company they hate.
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Let's clarify something.
The underlined sentence states that you did not purchase Ganzo's because all they made were copycats.
The sentence in bold states that you are not going to hold their past against them.
I have no problem with what you say here
EXCEPT!
The whole reason we have been disagreeing is this. You neglect to point out that Ganzo is still making clones!!!!
A great deal more models than their original designs as a matter of fact. As much as I would like to commend them for this apparent attempt at legitimacy, it is impossible due to the fact that they are still stealing.
If Ganzo Stopped the thievery I would not be involved with this discussion. I still wouldn't buy any for quite awhile, but at the same time I wouldn't try to warn others against buying any due to their prior misdeeds.

You are seriously contradicting yourself. You can't play the "I'm only buying the original designs to encourage they keep it up" card anymore either, because you have vehemently stated that you aren't.

So how will you respond to this (if at all)?
As a responsible adult who takes responsibility for his actions
Or a petulant child who blames others for his failings and misdeeds.

I know what you were trying to do in your anti-anti-Ganzo stance.
Your problem was that the company you were defending is not the Ganzo you want it to be. Other than making their own in house designs, they are not deviating from their past of blatant unapologetic theft from reputable companies' designs and style.
 
:rolleyes: I continue to see two major arguments against Ganzo , that seem to me logically inconsistent :

#1 : Ganzo products are junk , absolute worthless crap .

#2 : Ganzo (never the less) is somehow causing significant economic loss and suffering to several big name, high quality brands . o_O

How can both be true at the same time ? This does not compute ! :confused:
 
DocJD said:
:rolleyes: I continue to see two major arguments against Ganzo , that seem to me logically inconsistent :

#1 : Ganzo products are junk , absolute worthless crap .

#2 : Ganzo (never the less) is somehow causing significant economic loss and suffering to several big name, high quality brands . o_O

How can both be true at the same time ? This does not compute ! :confused:
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How? easily
A fool and his money are soon parted.
Remember pet rocks?
 
NorthernSouthpaw said:
How? easily
A fool and his money are soon parted.
Remember pet rocks?
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:rolleyes: This requires, I suppose, a very large number of "fools " and many repeat offenders , hopeless dullards totally incapable of learning from their mistakes ? :confused:
 
They aren’t crappy knives for the price IMHO, but I do not support what they do. Ganzo is just another representation of the clone wars many companies fight with these sorts of people.
 
I didn't
Don't even plan to ...
I got several chicom knives, but never used even one !
Let think a bit :
I used/use US made, Japanese, German, Russian, Polish, Pakistani,
Spanish, Swedish, Finnish and probably that's all Folks.
:^D
 
Chronovore said:
Here are the worst offenders I could find, for the worst offenders here.

jrr4Dmv.jpg
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Dude, not cool.

Not up to me to judge other people's purchase decisions, but this is just wrong.

If you decided to buy some of Ganzo's own designs because you maybe like the company for some reason I would still understand but this is just dense and childish.

You also grossly overpaid that junk, and none of these are 440C.

You can buy one for me too, since you'll need it once these you ordered now fall apart, that is, if you even use them at all.
 
DocJD said:
:rolleyes: I continue to see two major arguments against Ganzo , that seem to me logically inconsistent :

#1 : Ganzo products are junk , absolute worthless crap .

#2 : Ganzo (never the less) is somehow causing significant economic loss and suffering to several big name, high quality brands . o_O

How can both be true at the same time ?
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Legit company spends time and money creating designs and filing patents and trademarks. Clone company steals trademarks and patented designs. Legit company has to spend time and money combating IP thieves to protect their interests. Prices on legit knives increase.

Legit company teams up with legit custom knifemakers. Spends time and money. Clone company steals design. Legit company loses time and money, custom knife maker loses royalties. Prices increase. Custom maker loses interest in teaming up with production companies because all his designs get stolen by clone companies.

DocJD said:
This does not compute ! :confused:
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Yeah, why doesn't that surprise me?:rolleyes:
 
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@Chronovore Who even are you arguing against and why are you arguing? You should know by know that you're not going to change anybody's opinion with your longwinded blathering, so what's the point in continuing your crusade? It should be clear to you by now that you have a minority opinion in opposition with people who clearly have the moral high ground, so I can only conclude that you're trying to justify supporting unscrupulous thieves to yourself and the few others that are obviously trying to do the same. You should also have realized by now that this forum, by and large, is not the venue for you or those like you to sing your praises of clone companies unanswered and unopposed, and it baffles me that you continue to do so like you don't expect contradiction, if not outright hostility, as though we're not going to vocally protect the legitimate companies, designers, and knifemakers that make up the community that we're so obviously protective of and passionate about.

Clone companies steal from legitimate companies and designers, many of whom are represented in person on this very forum. When you buy a Ganzo that uses stolen patents, trademarks, and designs, you hurt those companies, and when you brag about buying them and how many you're going to buy (not that I believe you), you are spitting in the eyes of the owners and employees of those companies, and that is trolling, pure and simple. Screw you Sal, suck it Chris and Anne Reeve, roll over in your grave Les, Chronovore is buying another Ganzo.
 
DocJD said:
:rolleyes: I continue to see two major arguments against Ganzo , that seem to me logically inconsistent :

#1 : Ganzo products are junk , absolute worthless crap .

#2 : Ganzo (never the less) is somehow causing significant economic loss and suffering to several big name, high quality brands . o_O

How can both be true at the same time ? This does not compute ! :confused:
Click to expand...
You can't be serious.
 
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People who can't believe that they can be wrong, often get stuck on the idea that the disagreeing parties must not fully understand the issue, and aren't using logic to arrive at their side of the argument.

And just because you have the minority opinion, that doesn't make the majority a "mob".
 
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