8cr13mov, why so much hate?

My Kershaw Tremor has ridden in my pocket for 2 years. Holds an edge. Touches up easily. Love this knife and it's "cheap" steel.

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I don't hate it, but I'd rather not use it. For my needs there are better options, and I have the financial means to get something that performs much better. If a person has limited funds, and doesn't expect the world, then go for it.
 
I've had nothing but good experiences with 8CR. I don't mind touching it up more often because it sharpens so easily.

I've found that Kershaw and Spyderco know how to do 8CR best.
 
8Cr13MoV and AUS-8 are extremely similar in their composition... they perform about the same, in my experience. The American steel happens to be more expensive... so people assume it's better in some fashion. Truth is, American labor costs more.

Biggest difference between the two is that 8Cr13MoV has more manganese, while AUS-8 has more nickle.
 
I have no big problem with it for an inexpensive steel especially if you don't mind sharpening. If you can afford better, I would.
 
Everyone keeps saying they can get better steel for a few dollars more. What is a few dollars? $2? $3? 5? Show me comparable knives with with a better steel for a few dollars more. I wouldn't consider Aus8 or 440c to be a significant upgrade over 8cr. Show me something american made that is a comparable knife that is a just a few dollars more.
 
yepimonfire said:

8cr13mov, why so much hate?

What's so bad about it?
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IMHO, it's not the steel itself, the problem is the Chinese knife industry itself.

Most of us have seen some of the quality knives that have been produced in China for some of the big name knife companies, their demand for quality control and the willingness to pay for it can result in a uniformly good product; conversely, large sectors of the Chinese knife industry are dedicated to producing budget priced items for maximum profit.

Add to this equation a lack government regulation/enforcement and you have the recipe for what we see now in China.

8cr13mov with optimal heat treatment can perform quite well as a knife blade; but, with a cheap HT, or even a cheaper steel labeled as 8cr13mov (or some other well known steel), can be disappointing to a knowledgeable knife user -- leading to the "hate" we see for some of these steels.

In some ways these very practices taint all Chinese products, making even their quality products less desirable to the international buying community.


Just one knife users opinion.



Big Mike
 
WillardCorspe said:
8Cr13MoV and AUS-8 are extremely similar in their composition... they perform about the same, in my experience. The American steel happens to be more expensive... so people assume it's better in some fashion. Truth is, American labor costs more.

Biggest difference between the two is that 8Cr13MoV has more manganese, while AUS-8 has more nickle.
Click to expand...

Most of my 8cr13mov knives hold an edge longer then the two Aus 8a's I have. Not by a huge margin but still.
 
In my opinion, it's a combination of the following 3 reasons:

1) Some have had poor first hand experience with it and choose not to use it.

2) Some choose not to support the country of origin and/or their manufacturing processes or quality control methods.

3) Knife enthusiasts (like most enthusiasts) are often searching for the best available product with the least amount of maintenance - sometimes with disregard to price.
 
From what I've seen it's not the steel as much as the country of origin. Performance aside, a lot of people don't like buying cheap knives made in china. Universal hate can be a bit over the top, but I understand people steering away from it in general. There's still a few knives I'd consider that use it, like the Spyderco budget line, the Kershaw hinderer designs, or the Emerson/Kershaw collab knives. Some are too good of a price to just ignore based on the name of the steel.
 
craytab said:
Everyone keeps saying they can get better steel for a few dollars more. What is a few dollars? $2? $3? 5? Show me comparable knives with with a better steel for a few dollars more. I wouldn't consider Aus8 or 440c to be a significant upgrade over 8cr. Show me something american made that is a comparable knife that is a just a few dollars more.
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Kershaw Leek is a good example. Compare it to the Emerson collabs for instance. How much is a CQC-6K? $35-ish? How much is a Basic Leek? $40-ish? There's a few dollars difference, Chinese vs American made, 3Cr vs Sandvick. Not only is the Leek a better built knife, the Sandvick is worlds ahead of the alphabet soup.
 
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Bigfatts said:
Kershaw Leek is a good example. Compare it to the Emerson collabs for instance. How much is a CQC-6K? $35-ish? How much is a Basic Leek? $40-ish? There's a few dollars difference, Chinese vs American made, 3Cr vs Sandvick. Not only is the Leek a better built knife, the Sandvick is world's ahead of the alphabet soup.
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Kershaw Skyline is another example of sandvik steel at a budget price. But, the Kershaw collabs are much tougher handle-wise than the Kershaws. The RAT 1 is like the best of both worlds though
 
I've used a Tenacious as a work knife, chipped like crazy... so I don't like 8cr13mov.
Now a CRKT Drifter didn't have that problem (8cr14mov)
My guess is the Tenacious has a to fine edge for that kind of steel ???
 
Bigfatts said:
Kershaw Leek is a good example. Compare it to the Emerson collabs for instance. How much is a CQC-6K? $35-ish? How much is a Basic Leek? $40-ish? There's a few dollars difference, Chinese vs American made, 3Cr vs Sandvick. Not only is the Leek a better built knife, the Sandvick is worlds ahead of the alphabet soup.
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Okay, that is close but the Emerson collabs are much harder use knives. If you compare the cqc-1k to a standard leek, there is a ten dollar difference at kershaw guy. This is not what I would consider a few bucks. This is my point. A Kershaw Blur, knockout, or piston are more in line with a comparable size and intended use to the larger Kershaw Emerson Colabs and they are much more than a few bucks more.
 
8cr is ok for a cheap knife but in my experience AUS-8 is better in both edge retention and corrosion resistance. I wouldn't pay more than $30-35 for a knife in 8cr.

3cr is absolutely terrible and companies like Kershaw who use it in otherwise decent knives should be embarrassed.

The mot impressive of the Chinese steels I've used was by far the 9cr in a couple Red Class Benchmades.
 
KingMC said:
Kershaw Skyline is another example of sandvik steel at a budget price. But, the Kershaw collabs are much tougher handle-wise than the Kershaws. The RAT 1 is like the best of both worlds though
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Right! Kershaw Skyline is a lightweight EDC. That is why it is so inexpensive. Can't compare to the Kershaw colabs.
 
The Kershaw Leek and Skyline were both mentioned as low priced alternatives to knives such as the Kershaw/Emerson collaboration models. I've owned both the Leek and Skyline and, yes, they do have good blade steel, maybe a small step above Kershaw's 8Cr Chinese models. However, both of the Leek and Skyline models have been my very least favorite Kershaw designs.

And that's pretty much it. I'll take slightly lower quality steel in a knife design that is appealing over a less appealing design with slightly better steel.
 
This steel & Chinese manufacturing has become the bread & butter for AG Russell. Cheap steel, dead retail prices; thats how you move merchandise... :D
 
yepimonfire said:
I've seen many mentions of wishing knife manufacturers would stop using it, but I don't get what's so bad about it? Sure it's no supersteel but...it hardens between 58-60hrc, doesn't break easily, sharpens easily, no burr problems, and holds an edge reasonably. Have two knives in it and one I edced for over a year, with moderate use only needed touched up every 1-2 weeks, and I was cutting things like cardboard, foam, tubing and even aluminum wires without chipping/rolling. Only once have I done a full resharpening because it touches up easily. Other knife was a large fixed blade, used it to chop two tree limbs up hatchet style and baton one log and it'd still shave, though not as cleanly. Never broke.

What's so bad about it?
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The rub is that (1) it doesn't hold an edge like some other knife steels, and (2) it is used in less expensive knives that perhaps don't have the feel and durability of more expensive knives. I have many different knives and find the design and feel is more important than the type of steel it is made from when doing a certain task. I have never had problems with knives made from this particular steel. Perhaps it is because I know how to sharpen knives?

Here is an interesting review of this very popular 8cr13mov knife steel that may be of interest/value.

http://bladereviews.com/knife-faqs/knife-steel/
 
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