8cr13mov, why so much hate?

I had problems cutting cardboard up with my Kershaw Clash 8cr13mov. I had it sharpened at 40° inclusive, it was sharp. The edge started rolling the first box that I was cutting, and it got worse from there. Mostly, the whole edge just dulled extremely quick, in my experience. I had to stop, now I just use it to cut tape while opening new boxes. Everyone will have different experiences. It will vary from knife to knife.
 
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Got a CRKT Stubby Razel with it, holds it edge well especially considering the abuse I've thrown at it! And it takes an edge well when needed.
 
Mike,

Well said! ! !

A. G.

Big Mike said:
IMHO, it's not the steel itself, the problem is the Chinese knife industry itself.

Most of us have seen some of the quality knives that have been produced in China for some of the big name knife companies, their demand for quality control and the willingness to pay for it can result in a uniformly good product; conversely, large sectors of the Chinese knife industry are dedicated to producing budget priced items for maximum profit.

Add to this equation a lack government regulation/enforcement and you have the recipe for what we see now in China.

8cr13mov with optimal heat treatment can perform quite well as a knife blade; but, with a cheap HT, or even a cheaper steel labeled as 8cr13mov (or some other well known steel), can be disappointing to a knowledgeable knife user -- leading to the "hate" we see for some of these steels.

In some ways these very practices taint all Chinese products, making even their quality products less desirable to the international buying community.


Just one knife users opinion.



Big Mike
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A. G. Russell said:
It is a Chinese steel so maybe you should think of it a company rather than a country having to do with it. My customers really like it and I use it a lot.

A. G.
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I meant that country of origin being a negative to many people, not necessarily me. I've only handled two knives with it, both Kershaws, one of which nearly took my finger off at the third knuckle. It gets sharp I'll tell you that much. I don't own any knives in the price range where the steel comes into play, so it doesn't really factor into my world. Least expensive knife I own (that isn't retired) is a ESEE Izula.
 
me2 said:
For a high sharpness edge, I've found 8Cr13MoV to be in a dead tie with S30V. This was cutting cardboard, measuring sharpness by push cutting thread on a scale. Byrd Cara Cara and Benchmade Griptillian.
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This has been my experience as well. I have a few folders in AUS8 and the 8cr13mov that is my current EDC, the edge lasts much longer than any of the AUS8 blades I own from CRKT and SOG. My brother has a s30v spyderco and he was telling me how much better it is. So we put them both to a large quantity of cardboard. After some cutting his was a bit more sharp. After a huge stack he was sawing to get through while my super cheap China made Schrade retained its working edge. That working edge lasts way longer than AUS8 does and it does not do as much damage to the edge of you hit a staple as AUS8 will get. I used some sand paper laying around and used cardboard to strop it to a razors edge in no time. He required some good amount of time on a dedicated sharpener to get the same edge back.

Does work longer than a super steel and could have kept on doing work but I wanted to show him how quickly that cheap junk steel sharpens up with the most basic method. Yeah his super steel was more sharp after a little bit of work and degrades slower but it keeps on degrading where the 8cr13mov hits a point where the wear slows to a point it will be more sharp after a long period of working.

It's not a gentleman knife steel, it's a working steel and was probably designed to be one. Easy on the bank account but will not give up on you easily and eliminates the bragging rights of needing an expensive sharpening system and extra time to return it to a sharp edge again. Just me but in a working knife from what I've seen the expensive super steel is a failure. That is unless my goal is to show it off to everyone in the latest board meeting and open a package or letters every now and then.
 
There is a danger of overgeneralizing from limited data and limited test protocols.

We have a thread in which steels are objectively tested for the characteristic that you describe- resistance to dulling from cutting.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...based-on-Edge-Retention-cutting-5-8-quot-rope

I own and enjoy several knives in 8cr13mov.

You are the first person I have found who claims that 8cr13mov is more abrasion-resistant than S30V, and you may be right - for those two knives.
 
Boris74 said:
This has been my experience as well. I have a few folders in AUS8 and the 8cr13mov that is my current EDC, the edge lasts much longer than any of the AUS8 blades I own from CRKT and SOG. My brother has a s30v spyderco and he was telling me how much better it is. So we put them both to a large quantity of cardboard. After some cutting his was a bit more sharp. After a huge stack he was sawing to get through while my super cheap China made Schrade retained its working edge. That working edge lasts way longer than AUS8 does and it does not do as much damage to the edge of you hit a staple as AUS8 will get. I used some sand paper laying around and used cardboard to strop it to a razors edge in no time. He required some good amount of time on a dedicated sharpener to get the same edge back.

Does work longer than a super steel and could have kept on doing work but I wanted to show him how quickly that cheap junk steel sharpens up with the most basic method. Yeah his super steel was more sharp after a little bit of work and degrades slower but it keeps on degrading where the 8cr13mov hits a point where the wear slows to a point it will be more sharp after a long period of working.

It's not a gentleman knife steel, it's a working steel and was probably designed to be one. Easy on the bank account but will not give up on you easily and eliminates the bragging rights of needing an expensive sharpening system and extra time to return it to a sharp edge again. Just me but in a working knife from what I've seen the expensive super steel is a failure. That is unless my goal is to show it off to everyone in the latest board meeting and open a package or letters every now and then.
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This may bleed over into the "edge retention vs cutting life" conversation, where geometry is a major player.
 
yepimonfire said:
I've seen many mentions of wishing knife manufacturers would stop using it, but I don't get what's so bad about it? Sure it's no supersteel but...it hardens between 58-60hrc, doesn't break easily, sharpens easily, no burr problems, and holds an edge reasonably. Have two knives in it and one I edced for over a year, with moderate use only needed touched up every 1-2 weeks, and I was cutting things like cardboard, foam, tubing and even aluminum wires without chipping/rolling. Only once have I done a full resharpening because it touches up easily. Other knife was a large fixed blade, used it to chop two tree limbs up hatchet style and baton one log and it'd still shave, though not as cleanly. Never broke.

What's so bad about it?
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My understanding is that it is a Chinese clone of AUS8

http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/GB/8cr15mov.shtml

http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/Aichi/aus8a.shtml

The main difference is that Japan has arguably the best steel refinement processes on earth, and China does not. AUS8 is going to be much more consistent batch to batch than 8cr13mov.
 
As others have stated, it seems to be considered a "crap" steel because of the overall quality of some of the knives. Couple that with horror stories of chipping and breaking plus advice/assumptions from steel snobs and all of the sudden 8cr gets a terrible rep. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of it, but I also don't have a problem with it either. The knives I own that have 8cr have had no issues related to the steel. Fit and finish? Yes. But the blades are just fine.

This is just my opinion. It's probably wrong.
 
Thomas Linton said:
There is a danger of overgeneralizing from limited data and limited test protocols.

We have a thread in which steels are objectively tested for the characteristic that you describe- resistance to dulling from cutting.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...based-on-Edge-Retention-cutting-5-8-quot-rope

I own and enjoy several knives in 8cr13mov.

You are the first person I have found who claims that 8cr13mov is more abrasion-resistant than S30V, and you may be right - for those two knives.
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Shame, 8Cr13Mov doesn't seem to be in there.
 
RBid said:
This may bleed over into the "edge retention vs cutting life" conversation, where geometry is a major player.
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In a working knife you need to look at working edge life as well. You would think if a knife maker is "smart" enough to use a super steel they would design the blade to hold an edge rather than look pretty. Who is targeted for the sale of the knife and what will they do with it. A blade designed to be pleasing to the eye or a blade design made to do work. They could put a mirror finish on the lowest cost steel and it would probably have the same edge life, brag about some superior high HRC heat treat and the show knife guys won't care. Does no good for a pocket knife in a warehouse expected to do work and that person won't care. They want a knife that is easy to sharpen and holds an edge.

The majority of high dollar knives with no regard to the steel are typically not designed to do work, so steel will not matter. If that's true I still believe the s30v would have done the same as the cheap junk steel if it were the same exact blade design. The edge was clearly micro chipping, it worked as a saw just fine. Maybe it was a heat treat at a bragable high HRC and would have been a better worker slightly lower. Whatever the case it did keep that keen edge with a light work load but when it started degrading it didn't stop at a working edge, it kept going down hill. It's just a case of people will slice up a box with both and notice s30v still feels more keen and it is declared the superior steel. Where someone like me will notice at the end of the day the 8cr13mov touches up easily and fast with basic methods where as the s30v will need full attention to get back to a nice sharp edge. So am I looking for a knife that works all day or a knife that still feels super sharp after a few minutes of work? How far do you push the test? When do you stop it? I'm not the cut a box once a month and sharpen it every 6 months knife owner. The high dollar s30v knife would go into my box of knives I don't use after a week of time wasted returning the edge a few times and the time it requires compared to a working knives steel. Even if both don't shave hair at the end of the day I will pick the one with a better working edge. I don't have time to even touch up sometimes and I know the 8cr13mov will still have a decent working edge the next day (same applies to AUS8 I used for over a decade before I got am8cr13mov blade) while a backup would be clipped in the pocket for the other steels replacement for the next day's work. Don't care about geometry at that point.
 
I actually enjoy 8cr13mov in edc blades, takes a razor edge and almost helps you get it back during sharpening also responds very well to stropping. That said, I wouldn't take an 8cr13mov blade with me if I had to be somewhere without adequate sharpening tools.
 
NetshadeX said:
That said, I wouldn't take an 8cr13mov blade with me if I had to be somewhere without adequate sharpening tools.
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True, on the trail a smooth river or creek rock is adequate, on the road a few strips of sandpaper packed away is adequate and a piece of cardboard to polish the rough off can be found anywhere to strop a smoother edge onto it. Or you could be fancy and get a smiths pocket diamond stone with fine on one side and coarse on the other, but that will have you back to shave sharp in about a minute and working sharp for a long time. The 8cr13mov in my blade does take a little bit more work than aus8 did but the edge does last much longer, so I'm fine with that.

You won't earn bragging rights needing a shop full of grinders to sharpen it or a compact system with a fancy name, but you will get back to work much quicker.
 
No hate at all. Whatever the origin, if the maker makes it right, it will be a great user. My only 8Cr 13 Mov knives come from A.G Russell and they are great. Very high up, indeed, on the quality/price ratio scale. Very high...
 
I like it when Kershaw does it. For me, it seems to hold a working edge a good long time compared to my AUS8 knives, which i believe is a pretty close equivalent.

Sometimes we get caught up in the geekdom instead of just using our blades. In some cases, there can even be quite a placebo effect. A lot of it is mental.
 
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