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A few questions from Chris Reeve
- Thread starter Chris Reeve Knives
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2009
- Messages
- 1,262
Don't feed the Trolls.
I would laugh at that video not give it consideration. There will always be detractors. Ignorant, naive and some just plain malicious.
Getting personal attention from CRK directly probably has this fool cracking beers with his friends and is below the dignity of such a marquee brand.
Let 'em have their say. It's a free country. The market has determined that CRK knives are the gold standard and some frivolous drivel from an attention seeking idiot isn't gonna derail that.
I would laugh at that video not give it consideration. There will always be detractors. Ignorant, naive and some just plain malicious.
Getting personal attention from CRK directly probably has this fool cracking beers with his friends and is below the dignity of such a marquee brand.
Let 'em have their say. It's a free country. The market has determined that CRK knives are the gold standard and some frivolous drivel from an attention seeking idiot isn't gonna derail that.
- Joined
- May 9, 2007
- Messages
- 2,955
What on earth is this idiot trying to prove by continually dropping a phone onto concrete
- Joined
- Jan 11, 1999
- Messages
- 669
My reason for posing the questions was that I wanted Forumites to think of relevance of actions, of testing a product with tasks beyond the products design parameters, and the resulting publicity. I have been intrigued by your answers!
Yesterday, we finally received the knife back from the Polish Umnumzaan test video. As we had stated previously, there was no way we could comment on the reported performance without inspecting the knife. I know my designs, and I know the performance capabilities of my knives. I knew there was no way that an Umnumzaan within tolerance would fail as a result of the tasks shown on the video; there had to be something else .... Did you know my knives are programmed to tell Dad what goes on when they come home, and they always tell the truth!!
Not shown on the video was that the knife was repeatedly spine whacked extremely hard, until the ceramic ball was deeply pounded into its pocket and into the ramp of the blade, putting the lock out of tolerance. You can see the pound marks on the back of the blade in the photo below. The hardness of the blade is 58-59 RC it takes a lot of pounding to introduce these marks. With this treatment, there is no way any lock will stay in tolerance. An out-of-tolerance lock can fail even a light spine whack test.
I do not particularly care what people do with property for which they have legitimately paid.
Quote Stabman: If I had the money to buy a Ferrari and proceed to use it for a rifle target, that would be my prerogative. I totally agree.
What I cannot tolerate is inappropriate testing, and my legitimately made, high quality product portrayed to be inadequate when the testing is misrepresented.
Quote Scott Dog: Publishing it and implying that a Ferrari is an inferior car because it doesn't tolerate rifle bullets is clearly crossing the line.
I am not a big fan of the spine whack test. I dont go fighting with my knife every day, and neither do my customers. As for slashing back and forth in an emergency situation, I believe I would be cutting carefully and rapidly, not randomly hacking and slashing. I see the test as an extrapolation of a theory, with little practical relevance.
I am not afraid of criticism and can take negative comments. All I ask is that testers be upfront with what they do, that the tests have practical relevance and that the results published represent the whole truth.
I have confidence in our product and in my staff.
We all do our very best to get the very finest to you.
Chris
Yesterday, we finally received the knife back from the Polish Umnumzaan test video. As we had stated previously, there was no way we could comment on the reported performance without inspecting the knife. I know my designs, and I know the performance capabilities of my knives. I knew there was no way that an Umnumzaan within tolerance would fail as a result of the tasks shown on the video; there had to be something else .... Did you know my knives are programmed to tell Dad what goes on when they come home, and they always tell the truth!!
Not shown on the video was that the knife was repeatedly spine whacked extremely hard, until the ceramic ball was deeply pounded into its pocket and into the ramp of the blade, putting the lock out of tolerance. You can see the pound marks on the back of the blade in the photo below. The hardness of the blade is 58-59 RC it takes a lot of pounding to introduce these marks. With this treatment, there is no way any lock will stay in tolerance. An out-of-tolerance lock can fail even a light spine whack test.
I do not particularly care what people do with property for which they have legitimately paid.
Quote Stabman: If I had the money to buy a Ferrari and proceed to use it for a rifle target, that would be my prerogative. I totally agree.
What I cannot tolerate is inappropriate testing, and my legitimately made, high quality product portrayed to be inadequate when the testing is misrepresented.
Quote Scott Dog: Publishing it and implying that a Ferrari is an inferior car because it doesn't tolerate rifle bullets is clearly crossing the line.
I am not a big fan of the spine whack test. I dont go fighting with my knife every day, and neither do my customers. As for slashing back and forth in an emergency situation, I believe I would be cutting carefully and rapidly, not randomly hacking and slashing. I see the test as an extrapolation of a theory, with little practical relevance.
I am not afraid of criticism and can take negative comments. All I ask is that testers be upfront with what they do, that the tests have practical relevance and that the results published represent the whole truth.
I have confidence in our product and in my staff.
We all do our very best to get the very finest to you.
Chris
Attachments
zyhano
Gold Member
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2009
- Messages
- 1,593
My reason for posing the questions was that I wanted Forumites to think of relevance of actions, of testing a product with tasks beyond the products design parameters, and the resulting publicity. I have been intrigued by your answers!
Yesterday, we finally received the knife back from the Polish Umnumzaan test video. As we had stated previously, there was no way we could comment on the reported performance without inspecting the knife. I know my designs, and I know the performance capabilities of my knives. I knew there was no way that an Umnumzaan within tolerance would fail as a result of the tasks shown on the video; there had to be something else .... Did you know my knives are programmed to tell Dad what goes on when they come home, and they always tell the truth!!
Not shown on the video was that the knife was repeatedly spine whacked extremely hard, until the ceramic ball was deeply pounded into its pocket and into the ramp of the blade, putting the lock out of tolerance. You can see the pound marks on the back of the blade in the photo below. The hardness of the blade is 58-59 RC it takes a lot of pounding to introduce these marks. With this treatment, there is no way any lock will stay in tolerance. An out-of-tolerance lock can fail even a light spine whack test.
I am not afraid of criticism and can take negative comments. All I ask is that testers be upfront with what they do, that the tests have practical relevance and that the results published represent the whole truth.
thanks Chris, is this the end-all answer on the polish test and lock failure? or are there any more results and pictures coming our way?
I'd like to point out that the polish guys were actually very willing to explain and to get information and although it took a long time, they have sent you the knife for inspection. Without analyzing that thread again, I think there's no real fault with them except that they haven\t shown us the spinewhacks (that's another point of discussion: did they do any spine whacks LOL
).Where it all went wrong was with speculation imo. It got a life of it's own.
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2005
- Messages
- 7,425
OK, Mr. Reeve, I will say what you haven't. The "test" is at best a fabrication and misrepresentation. In plainer language, it's a fraud. What can you do? That's a rhetorical question; the answer is basically "not much."
That video was as much a "test" as seeing what kind of mileage a car gets while running with no oil in the crankcase. Spinewhacks are exactly that, for a knife. No folder is designed to take that abuse, nor is it necessary. Paaaah. :thumbdn: :grumpy: :barf:
That video was as much a "test" as seeing what kind of mileage a car gets while running with no oil in the crankcase. Spinewhacks are exactly that, for a knife. No folder is designed to take that abuse, nor is it necessary. Paaaah. :thumbdn: :grumpy: :barf:
Dear Mr. Reeve,
I totally agree with you. I believe that anyone who actually cared for what they created, Even if the customer has paid for the entity, the actual maker or "artist"
would be very sad and upset seeing being tortured on internet. Some of the comparison
to cars, such as a Ferrari is not really true. If you had a very nice custom/semi-custom
such as an Enzo, if the Ferrari-Italy saw the guy who smashed it on the Freeway. I doubt that he will get OK to buy the next Enzo FXX. Everyone loves to see destruction and torture test of a product. Its nature of things. But its another to perform these torture test and sent it back to the manufacturer and ask for what? I would love those people do the same thing to their cars and send them back to dealer or manufacturer and claim that their cars are not well-made. Mecedes and Volvo are build like tanks. Same analogy. see if they can ram it into a tree and claim that its not build like one.
So the question to you Mr. Reeve. when they sent the knive back to you, what are they asking. and what are your responses?
I totally agree with you. I believe that anyone who actually cared for what they created, Even if the customer has paid for the entity, the actual maker or "artist"
would be very sad and upset seeing being tortured on internet. Some of the comparison
to cars, such as a Ferrari is not really true. If you had a very nice custom/semi-custom
such as an Enzo, if the Ferrari-Italy saw the guy who smashed it on the Freeway. I doubt that he will get OK to buy the next Enzo FXX. Everyone loves to see destruction and torture test of a product. Its nature of things. But its another to perform these torture test and sent it back to the manufacturer and ask for what? I would love those people do the same thing to their cars and send them back to dealer or manufacturer and claim that their cars are not well-made. Mecedes and Volvo are build like tanks. Same analogy. see if they can ram it into a tree and claim that its not build like one.
So the question to you Mr. Reeve. when they sent the knive back to you, what are they asking. and what are your responses?
Ilikesharpstuff
Basic Member
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2009
- Messages
- 862
Not valid in the least.
In my opinion it's the feeling of defiance that drive people to do it. It is advised not to flick the knife open, therefore those who feel like they have to break the rules flick the knife open just to see what happens. In a regular case, nothing, usually. Combine someone who is driven to defy with someone desperate for attention, and you find someone who will deliberately destroy a great knife because they know people will respond to it.
In my opinion it's the feeling of defiance that drive people to do it. It is advised not to flick the knife open, therefore those who feel like they have to break the rules flick the knife open just to see what happens. In a regular case, nothing, usually. Combine someone who is driven to defy with someone desperate for attention, and you find someone who will deliberately destroy a great knife because they know people will respond to it.
I was just going to ask if it was the Zaan video...Maybe different people take it differently. But for me, I take it positively. The polish guy has a blog that shows all the testings, and I stated before. The Zaan (I got one myself) was a magnificent knife built for its purpose and beyond. It took a lot of abuse (for example, thrusting into the fridge) before the lock fails. Which tells me, it is THAT good! There are no knives that will not fail, just matter of abuse.
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2004
- Messages
- 1,240
I'm in total agreement about the spine whack "testing", and these destructive "tests" in general. I bought my sebenzas because they're made better than any other production knife and they cut well. I've never felt compelled to pound them through anything.
Thank you Mr Reeve for making an excellent product. I've never owned a CRK that wasn't extremely well made and extremely functional. Keep up the good work; I'm looking forward to the new folder.
Thank you Mr Reeve for making an excellent product. I've never owned a CRK that wasn't extremely well made and extremely functional. Keep up the good work; I'm looking forward to the new folder.
- Joined
- May 9, 2010
- Messages
- 116
My new Umnumzaan is the finest knife that I have ever owned.
Videos on YouTube of unscientific 'testing' will certainly not change my opinion based on personal experience with your products. They are the finest that can be purchased.
Videos on YouTube of unscientific 'testing' will certainly not change my opinion based on personal experience with your products. They are the finest that can be purchased.
DallasSTB
Gold Member
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2009
- Messages
- 3,250
and that's why I keep coming back and back and back.......
Thank you, Chris.
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2009
- Messages
- 630
Don't let them get to you Chris. It comes with the territory of being the best. I had a conversation the other day with a guy who told me for 20 minutes of how terrible a basketball player Kobe Bryant is. There's no shortage of idiots in the world. Keep doing what you do best and keep making awesome knives.
As far as affecting you sales, well...I've seen the Noss tests on the Green Beret and I traded my NIB Busse SARsquatch will a Semper Paratus Sheath (costs more than a GB) for a NIB Green Beret and have been happy ever since. You're the man Chris.
As far as affecting you sales, well...I've seen the Noss tests on the Green Beret and I traded my NIB Busse SARsquatch will a Semper Paratus Sheath (costs more than a GB) for a NIB Green Beret and have been happy ever since. You're the man Chris.
Good post Chris.
You fail to realize several things:
Society in general has become very destructive. Many young people simply enjoy destroying things.
The higher quality a product is, especially if it is supposed to be bombproof, all the more reason to try and push it past its design limits.
Parents have spoiled their children by replacing their spoiled brats broken toys. Adulthood changes nothing for these people. They dont take care of things, they demand replacements from the manufacturer.
The new age range of childhood is now age 1-30, according to the various mental institutions. In most Western cultures, manhood no longer starts at 14. You can have all the perks of adulthood with any of those pesky responsibilities.
Personal responsibility for ones own actions is no longer tolerable. Blame someone else, is the new creed.
Schools teach children that Bad, money hungry corporations should stand by their products no matter what. (Gee, so does our government, Hmmm) It doesnt matter if the consumer is an egotistical self centered idiot. The company is always to blame.
Group think often takes over on BF. Just the other day, Rick Hinderer had to jump into a discussion about his yet un-released folder. The mob mentality had already decided they didnt like certain features of the knife. None had ever seen, held or used the knife. The features were all made up in their minds. The final version has not been made yet. Group-think had taken over and done its work, just like it does on CRK forums. One foolish person whines about a perceived flaw in his knife, and pretty soon others are chiming in about how CRK should do a better job. Then it turns out that the problem was pocket lint Hey, if you whine enough about your blade being un-centered by 1 micron, maybe CRK will send you new knife .
You people know who you are.
Strider and Busse overcharge for their product to cover the loss from idiot users. They have a fan base of abusers. It costs the consumer extra money for this kind of street cred, hence, the higher prices. You pay for the other losers replacements.
I dont know how knife companies stay in business nowadays. I admire you guys for not tearing your hair out due to al the videos, forum smack, and ridiculous returns that consumers unfairly subject to your products. Glad you spoke up Chris. I hope other manufacturers follow suit.
You fail to realize several things:
Society in general has become very destructive. Many young people simply enjoy destroying things.
The higher quality a product is, especially if it is supposed to be bombproof, all the more reason to try and push it past its design limits.
Parents have spoiled their children by replacing their spoiled brats broken toys. Adulthood changes nothing for these people. They dont take care of things, they demand replacements from the manufacturer.
The new age range of childhood is now age 1-30, according to the various mental institutions. In most Western cultures, manhood no longer starts at 14. You can have all the perks of adulthood with any of those pesky responsibilities.
Personal responsibility for ones own actions is no longer tolerable. Blame someone else, is the new creed.
Schools teach children that Bad, money hungry corporations should stand by their products no matter what. (Gee, so does our government, Hmmm) It doesnt matter if the consumer is an egotistical self centered idiot. The company is always to blame.
Group think often takes over on BF. Just the other day, Rick Hinderer had to jump into a discussion about his yet un-released folder. The mob mentality had already decided they didnt like certain features of the knife. None had ever seen, held or used the knife. The features were all made up in their minds. The final version has not been made yet. Group-think had taken over and done its work, just like it does on CRK forums. One foolish person whines about a perceived flaw in his knife, and pretty soon others are chiming in about how CRK should do a better job. Then it turns out that the problem was pocket lint Hey, if you whine enough about your blade being un-centered by 1 micron, maybe CRK will send you new knife .
You people know who you are.
Strider and Busse overcharge for their product to cover the loss from idiot users. They have a fan base of abusers. It costs the consumer extra money for this kind of street cred, hence, the higher prices. You pay for the other losers replacements.
I dont know how knife companies stay in business nowadays. I admire you guys for not tearing your hair out due to al the videos, forum smack, and ridiculous returns that consumers unfairly subject to your products. Glad you spoke up Chris. I hope other manufacturers follow suit.
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2005
- Messages
- 7,425
These so called tests are totally meaningless. People who post the videos of these 'alleged tests' do not know of any relevance of these tests and are posting purely as Trolls. Just doing it to stir things up IMO. CRK haters is all I can surmise is their agenda.