A few questions from Chris Reeve

Good luck Chris! Unfortunately videos of random abuse are often presented and interpreted as tests that can provide a reliable conclusion. Unfortunately a curiosity to research and investigate the science behind what is reliable testing is a quality that does not seem to be prevalent in many of those same folks.
 
Chris Reeve Knives said:
My reason for posing the questions was that I wanted Forumites to think of relevance of actions, of testing a product with tasks beyond the product’s design parameters, and the resulting publicity. I have been intrigued by your answers!

Yesterday, we finally received the knife back from the Polish Umnumzaan test video. As we had stated previously, there was no way we could comment on the reported performance without inspecting the knife. I know my designs, and I know the performance capabilities of my knives. I knew there was no way that an Umnumzaan within tolerance would fail as a result of the tasks shown on the video; there had to be something else….... Did you know my knives are programmed to tell Dad what goes on when they come home, and they always tell the truth!! :)

Not shown on the video was that the knife was repeatedly spine whacked extremely hard, until the ceramic ball was deeply pounded into its pocket and into the ramp of the blade, putting the lock out of tolerance. You can see the pound marks on the back of the blade in the photo below. The hardness of the blade is 58-59 RC – it takes a lot of pounding to introduce these marks. With this treatment, there is no way any lock will stay in tolerance. An out-of-tolerance lock can fail even a light spine whack test.

I do not particularly care what people do with property for which they have legitimately paid.
Quote Stabman: “If I had the money to buy a Ferrari and proceed to use it for a rifle target, that would be my prerogative.” I totally agree.
What I cannot tolerate is inappropriate “testing”, and my legitimately made, high quality product portrayed to be inadequate when the testing is misrepresented.
Quote Scott Dog: “Publishing it and implying that a Ferrari is an inferior car because it doesn't tolerate rifle bullets is clearly crossing the line.”

I am not a big fan of the spine whack test. I don’t go fighting with my knife every day, and neither do my customers. As for slashing back and forth in an emergency situation, I believe I would be cutting carefully and rapidly, not randomly hacking and slashing. I see the test as an extrapolation of a theory, with little practical relevance.

I am not afraid of criticism and can take negative comments. All I ask is that testers be upfront with what they do, that the tests have practical relevance and that the results published represent the whole truth.

I have confidence in our product and in my staff.
We all do our very best to get the very finest to you.

Chris
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I was wondering what that 1st post was all about, now I see. :D

I agree that pounding the hell out of a frame lock in the spine whack test is stupid. :thumbup:

If you hit one enough times and hard enough they will fail, that really doesn't prove anything IMO. ;)

I try and keep my testing very realistic when I do hard use tests, not trying to break any knife or make it fail. In other words I don't push them harder than I think they can be pushed. :thumbup:

I haven't tested a Sebenza or Umnumzaan yet, but I will one day. :)
 
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Just because some halfwit abuses a product to the point of failure, it doesn't mean that product is inferior, or defective.
My '97 BG42 Seb lg has been carried and used regularly, and has NEVER let me down.
 
I agree with Mr. Reeves completely ! I own a couple of sebbies and love it. I am sorry and that Mr. Reeves used only foreign cars an example of cars of integrity and strength. American car doors are just as solidly built.
 
I'm not arguing. I think that is abuse, misrepresentation, inappropriate, unfair. This is a horrible thing for the person's reputation.

That said, if I buy a Porsche or BMW, I will probably test the brakes and other things that are normal operation and will injure me if they fail. If I abuse them, I would not count on them to prevent injury.

As this relates to knives, I might press on the lock and I might try a little hard use with a knife to see how it performs. I would probably not spine whack a knife for testing, even if it were advertised to withstand spine whacking. (It seems like some companies are advertising this now.)
 
I don't think it is a good test of a car door/knife blade.

However, if you purchased the knife and showed the intentional damage in a video, so what? It is being used improperly. That would be like buying a knife and making a video of yourself trying to pry open a safe until the blade brakes. The manufacturer should not press charges or what have you IMO.

If the publisher of the video misrepresented how the car door/knife was damaged, that is a different story.

So, what exactly did the video show?

The act of slamming the door/blade open, then the damaged door/knife? If so, that is what would actually happen if you did the insane destruction test. Some people have money to burn and are extremely bored. I wouldn't waste the time/money if I were the manufacturer.....good chance of loosing.

If the video showed the knife cutting some rope and whittling wood/the car door being gently opened and closed, then claims the damage was done by that, the manufacturer may have a good case.

Just my opinion. Hope it helps.
 
Chris Reeve Knives said:
My reason for posing the questions was that I wanted Forumites to think of relevance of actions, of testing a product with tasks beyond the product’s design parameters, and the resulting publicity. I have been intrigued by your answers!

Yesterday, we finally received the knife back from the Polish Umnumzaan test video. As we had stated previously, there was no way we could comment on the reported performance without inspecting the knife. I know my designs, and I know the performance capabilities of my knives. I knew there was no way that an Umnumzaan within tolerance would fail as a result of the tasks shown on the video; there had to be something else….... Did you know my knives are programmed to tell Dad what goes on when they come home, and they always tell the truth!! :)


Not shown on the video was that the knife was repeatedly spine whacked extremely hard, until the ceramic ball was deeply pounded into its pocket and into the ramp of the blade, putting the lock out of tolerance. You can see the pound marks on the back of the blade in the photo below. The hardness of the blade is 58-59 RC – it takes a lot of pounding to introduce these marks. With this treatment, there is no way any lock will stay in tolerance. An out-of-tolerance lock can fail even a light spine whack test.

I do not particularly care what people do with property for which they have legitimately paid.
Quote Stabman: “If I had the money to buy a Ferrari and proceed to use it for a rifle target, that would be my prerogative.” I totally agree.
What I cannot tolerate is inappropriate “testing”, and my legitimately made, high quality product portrayed to be inadequate when the testing is misrepresented.
Quote Scott Dog: “Publishing it and implying that a Ferrari is an inferior car because it doesn't tolerate rifle bullets is clearly crossing the line.”

I am not a big fan of the spine whack test. I don’t go fighting with my knife every day, and neither do my customers. As for slashing back and forth in an emergency situation, I believe I would be cutting carefully and rapidly, not randomly hacking and slashing. I see the test as an extrapolation of a theory, with little practical relevance.

I am not afraid of criticism and can take negative comments. All I ask is that testers be upfront with what they do, that the tests have practical relevance and that the results published represent the whole truth.

I have confidence in our product and in my staff.
We all do our very best to get the very finest to you.

Chris
Click to expand...

Just saw this one, Chirs. If he didn't show/tell what he actually did to damage it, that's not cool. I recall seeing that video a while back and thinking, "Why the heck would anyone turn a knife around backwards and beat the spine?"
 
13ninjas said:
Just saw this one, Chirs. If he didn't show/tell what he actually did to damage it, that's not cool. I recall seeing that video a while back and thinking, "Why the heck would anyone turn a knife around backwards and beat the spine?"
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Spine Whacking is a legitimate test to make sure the lock is working correctly....

However Pounding on the knife extremely hard is abuse.
 
CRK is at the top of the ladder as a knife manufacturer, IMO. I like other companies, too, but CRK and its products are in a class of their own.

I've observed another possible/probable reason for a good deal of the more outlandish destruction testing of CRK knives. Nowadays, there is this obsession with instant celebrity. Whether it's through so-called "reality TV" or, more easily, youtube, so many people, esp. young people, are seduced by the idea of becoming "famous." To the degree that the word 'celebrity' has little to no meaning anymore. Yet the compulsion to do so remains, bigger than ever.

What better way, in some people's minds, of becoming famous than being the one(s) to "disprove" the product of a company whose knives set the standard for excellence? It's a way to try to boost their self-importance to the world. They want to be that "superstar named so-and-so" who was able to destroy a _________ (name knife model here).

Unfortunately, in many ways, this can affect a company. There are those who will take such people at their word, and cite youtube as the almighty proof. Because it's gotta be true if it's on the internet, right?? Uhh, no. But that's beside the point.

I got my first CRK in 2002, and it's still my only CRK knife, but you and your products have my respect for life, Chris. Keep up the great work, CRK; I'll be buying another before too long.
Jim
 
I suggest that he conduct a materials combustible ratings test by setting fire to his home. Chris and Anne, always loyal. Jim
 
well for me at some point every thing man made will eventually fail. the question you ask is about testing. first the test that you are asking about was done by an layman who does not understand steel. some steel will bend then break, some will just break. he does the same test for all steels and that is unfair to the steel and the maker the test should reflect what the knife was created for survival, self defense, etc. tool steel is a lot tougher than non tool steel and a lot of companies like to say that their knife is indestructable and any knife even titanium under the right conditions will fail as for me i feel that your knives are the best quality, price, ergonomicaly, as well as visually please do not get discouraged or upset by people who have an agenda of trying to prove that one knife is superior to another. when they are biased to begin with and is most likely a friend of this other maker. be proud of the company you have built yourself and realize that you do have fans and loyal customers. inclosing if i had only one knife i could buy before going into combat or a survival situation that i had to trust my life to that knife would be a Chris Reeve.
 
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This reminds me of all the reports we read about certain things causing cancer in lab mice that are fed or injected with more stuff than any individual human would ever consume in their lifetime. That's science for you (the junk kind).
 
I think you should send the broke knife back and tell them " Good job. You really f'ed it up." I have one and I think it excel's at cutting, which is why I bought it.
 
light spine whacking test is something I would hope my heavier duty folder would be capable of handling.

Stabbing through fridge doors is not what I expect from them.
 
i have never been attacked by a steel plate or a 2x4 or even a 5lb hammer that would require me to use a knife to defend my self but like someone said junk science and testing.
 
I did a scientific test of my own tonight with my small Seb 21.

I now have a hairless patch on my left arm.

My knife must be defective, as I don't recall anything about it being able to double as a razor.

Guess I'll have to send it in for warranty service. Hmmmmm....... :D


Any idiot trying to take a folding knife and treat it like a fixed blade deserves....well, keeping it nice, he deserves to be called out as, well, an idiot.

You knives are fine the way they are. Leave the pseudo-science to the armchair morons, and keep making great blades!
 
I love seeing knives get test out though...Don't care if it's extensive or abusive. As long as it's not my knife :)
 
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