A folder's potential role in subduing animal attacks?

Hey, guys I have been reading this thread for days and I went home to talk to my wife about it. (super wimp) Well, she is very knowledgeable about animals, she reads alot. Chimps are very aggressive and have been known to kill one another. They are very strong and very mean. I once read a story about Phil the gorilla (I know it is not a chimp but it is an ape) anyways I lived in St.Louis at the time when I read this but Phil was one of the biggest gorillas in captivity. He stood 6'6", the story goes that they cleaned his cage out and it took 8 big men and a small tractor to place a wood log into his pen. The next morning Phil had shattered the log into splinters. That is mega strong. If chimps are even at 1/4 the strength I would be dog meat and I am 6'7" 275lbs. Just my comments and I do have a BM 630 and every one needs one. Thanks. :D :D
 
What a great thread! I've often wondered about my chances against a chimp while hiking in North American forests. My real question is:
can a pitbull take a chimp?
(and a follow up)
what's tougher? a rott or a pit (both without 4 inch folders to make it fair)
 
Black clad zoo ninjas UNITE! We will not go queitly! The chimpanzees can have my 4" blade when they pry it from my cold dead hands! Yeeeaaaaaa!!!

Does any one know the duration of the attack? That would be an important thing to know in discussing this issue. If these chimps did all this damage in five seconds, the "chimp camp" is probably right - you're toast; if the attack took several minutes I think the "people with knife camp" is probably right - you've got a reasonable chance of at least surviving the encounter while driving the chimps back or killing them. The poor victim is still alive, correct?
 
SDDLUP said:
Does any one know the duration of the attack? That would be an important thing to know in discussing this issue. If these chimps did all this damage in five seconds, the "chimp camp" is probably right - you're toast; if the attack took several minutes I think the "people with knife camp" is probably right - you've got a reasonable chance of at least surviving the encounter while driving the chimps back or killing them. The poor victim is still alive, correct?
this is a good point. the attack must have taken a few minutes, not too sure of the duration, but authorities had to be called over as the victim was trying to verbally reason with the chimps while getting chomped on.

i still think i can take a chip or two with a 4" blade & live to tell about it. with all due respect to the "sensitive" camp (LOL), i have the heart, soul, & mojo of an Alpha Chimp ;) - and so do a few others in this thread. zoo warriors, unite!
 
Will P. said:
Military should have a good deal of muscle, IMHO. The physical standard here at West Point seem to be highers than those in the army in general - my company's average APFT score was 295. Powerlifting those has less to do with usable strength than with conditioning the muscle to push a fixed load in a certain direction once - not a bad thing, but not as useful as a measure of combat strength. That being said, I bench every other day, in addition to the every present pushups. It can't hurt, right?

Not the ones I've seen and have trained. From what they've told me, military training is more of endurance style training, rather than strength. And they recieve generic training styles. Of course, there are going to be dedicated strength trainers in any sampling. But 90% of them are just able to squat 1.5 times bodyweight, and bench 1. Above the average, untrained, "healthy" man, but still weak.

Powerlifting, where top lifters can bench 3 times their bodyweight, and squat 4, is done through a neuromuscular process called gating. The inhibition of the golgi tendon organ, which normally acts as a protective mechanism to prevent muscles from damaging themselves through autogenic inhibition, is inhibited, and allows many more motor units to be recruited. Obviously, some of the transfer to other activities isn't going to be perfect, but a man deadlifting 600 lbs, squatting 650, and benching 500 isn't going to turn into a pussy cat when it comes to other activities using many of the same muscles.

And as a side note, benching every other day is likely to cause more harm than good, depending on rep and set schemes.
 
Eric_425 said:
And as a side note, benching every other day is likely to cause more harm than good, depending on rep and set schemes.
it also greatly depends on the proximity to momentary muscular failure per set (in addition to total volume of work). it's hard to imagine a productive routine involving the training of the same bodyparts 3.5x per week on average until you look at the possibilities. if he did a total of 4-5 working sets per chest workout, leading to a total of roughly 14-17 sets per week for chest, that isn't an unheard of total volume of work.
 
Eric_425 said:
Heheh. I dead lift 650, and can email records from some of my old PLing competitions to back it up. I didn't break a sweat either, but I got all red in the face. Call me Tarzan.
whoa.. that's damn good, especially if it was on all US legal substances.
 
I regularly curl a six pack of Miller Light, and in extreme cases, dead lift a case of same. I'm Bad!



Thomas
 
zinn1348 said:
I regularly curl a six pack of Miller Light, and in extreme cases, dead lift a case of same. I'm Bad!
light beers are a no-no! when i drink beer, it's either newcastle or mississipi mud.
 
It seems that a sharp blade and the ability to use it would offset the strength advantage of the chimp. I would also hope that most here would be more intelligent than the monkey.
 
Garlic said:
light beers are a no-no! when i drink beer, it's either newcastle or mississipi mud.


Regular beer would be beyond my lifting ability.


One story though, with no intent to start a big weightlifter's argument;

I once had a co-worker who was big into bodybuilding and competition. Could do major dead lifts, bench presses, snatches and clean and jerks. Really a strong and built like a pro.

He even owned his own gym with a lot of paying customers.

He decided he wanted to compete in one of the Tough Man Contests here in Kansas City.

I talked to him a few days after the event and asked how he did. He said that after the first 30 seconds or so, he got his butt kicked. Said something about lactic acid or something.

Never did quite understand what the deal was. He was strong, healthy and tough. What went on?


Thomas
 
zinn1348 said:
Regular beer would be beyond my lifting ability.


One story though, with no intent to start a big weightlifter's argument;

I once had a co-worker who was big into bodybuilding and competition. Could do major dead lifts, bench presses, snatches and clean and jerks. Really a strong and built like a pro.

He even owned his own gym with a lot of paying customers.

He decided he wanted to compete in one of the Tough Man Contests here in Kansas City.

I talked to him a few days after the event and asked how he did. He said that after the first 30 seconds or so, he got his butt kicked. Said something about lactic acid or something.

Never did quite understand what the deal was. He was strong, healthy and tough. What went on?


Thomas
sounds like a good excuse for being improperly trained for fighting. size & lifting strength are only a couple of factors amongst many that determine someone's ability to "deanimate" an opponent.
 
Sam Pai Kenpo said:
It seems that a sharp blade and the ability to use it would offset the strength advantage of the chimp. I would also hope that most here would be more intelligent than the monkey.
yes. we have another kindred spirit here. i agree with you that there certainly are individuals out there - more than one might think - who can dismantle a chimpanzee with a wade-sharp blade.
 
Just jumping in with an interesting piece of correspondence from a paleontologist:

"The important part about chimps that nobody has yet noted is the
evolutionary relationship between humans and chimps. Accepting all
the caveats that humans do not come directly from chimps and all that
jazz, humans have undergone paedomorphosis compared to chimps.

Paedomorphosis means that we come to full maturity in all ways while
not completing all of the steps of development that a chimp would go
through. For instance, if you were to take a picture of a young
child's face and "map" points on a grid (nose, mouth, chin, etc.) you
would find that those points match up very well with where the same
points would match on a baby chimp.

Now, if you look at how these points change with time you would notice
that they both go through similar changes, except for the human
changes stop much earlier. Chimp faces would continue to develop past
that point. The reason that adult faces look different than
children's faces is that adults look more apelike. You can check this
using a thin-plate spline for analysis, just type it into google.

Another consequence of this is muscle development. You never really
complete the muscle development that would happen later in life for a
chimp as your body stops short of it. You simply don't have the
tissue there to do it and the muscle tissue isn't nearly as dense and
efficient. An untrained chimpanzee can not move and easily pull over
300 lbs along the ground with one arm. Any human would have to train
for months or years to accomplish the same thing, and even then you
would see much larger amounts of muscle tissue (bulging biceps and the
like) for the chimp none of that is needed. Consequently, full grown
chimps can easily overpower a man without really even trying that
hard, and can often do it by accident.

All of that physical development that the chimp gains humans bypass in
order to keep the brain growing it's thought. This possible explains
why even though you finish growing at around 18-20 your brain
continues to develop until 25 and your thought process continues to
change up until that point. There is some debate over whether brain
development happens faster in women than men, but I digress.

The short of it: full grown humans are the equivalent of juvenile
chimps. Plan your monkey boxing demonstrations accordingly."


This came from the National Review website, of all places, and is a very interesting read. For those of you who are pressed for time, here's the gist: Chimpanzees, for all their similarities to humans, are quite different developmentally. They continue to develop well past the point where a human is considered "fully mature." Their muscles are denser and more efficient than fully matured human muscles. Even if a human can outlift a monkey, the use of those muscles in combative situations can only be trained into a human, while a chimp *naturally* knows how to fight - viciously, efficiently, and in some significant fraction of fights, successfully.

All human martial arts training flies in the face of thousands of years of self-domestication. We have no natural weapons (claws, fangs, talons, horns, etc.), and all human disciplines dedicated to creating "fighting machines" assume that other humans are the enemy. Strictly speaking, it's like breeding a toy poodle to fight other toy poodles. You wouldn't bet on the toy poodle if the opponent was a pitbull, would you?

Also, what has intellgence to do with a fight for survival? Looking for an escape route, possibly. I doubt that many humans have the sheer cold-bloodedness required to be a tactical computer when a pissed-off chimp is trying to eat your face. Perhaps you could look around for a weapon while the chimp uses the ones he was born with to maul you. Intelligence is great for keeping you out of a fight with a wild animal - if you have the misfortune to get into one despite that, intelligence isn't going to do much unless you're very lucky.

I'm sure there are people who can outdo chimpanzees in feats of pure strength. The bodybuilder here who mentioned previously that he could deadlift 650 pounds, for example. But between a man who can lift 650 pounds with some (much? I wouldn't know) exertion and a chimp who can pull 300 pounds along the ground with only his arm, I'd rather be thrown in a cage with the man.

As for the assistance a knife might provide, I won't say anything. I don't know how tough a chimp's skin is, or anything else about a chimp's anatomy. Certainly they might be vulnerable to slashes or stabs in a certain region, but if I had the wherewithal to find out a chimps sensitive areas I'd rather use my resources to find out the chimpanzee gesture for absolute submission and learn how to do that. I'd rather lose my pride than my balls to a chimp.


(Sorry for the long post. But I love off-beat topics like this one - It's about chimp fighting, for heaven's sake!)
 
LOL, this is a great post!

Seriously though, don't count on winning against large and strong animals with a knife. All I have to say is that chimps aren't stupid, and a human who would go out of his way to see if he can kill one with a knife most definitely is...

... but if he persists in his foolishness, then I would advise him to kill the damn thing fast, because he's doubly foolish if he thinks the chimp would give him a second chance to hit a vital spot. Kill it in one hit, or you'll have a very pissed off monkey boy who will probably rip off your knife arm and beat you to death with it.
 
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