a heavy tool for survivng th first 24

[Rick Marchand]

Very good points, Shotgun and Pitdog. Location, season, and hiking/camping styles all play a huge role in what tools you bring... as does personal taste.

 

[Briarbrow]

I appreciate the comments like- I carry cause i get to use my stuff and recognize many times i wont need it because of the climate,(not direct quotes)

Something most of us may have seen recently was Mora-boy (hah I laughed at that) Lundin bitching because Dave had the machete while he was stuck doing woman's work and needed it. Jardine zoomed up and down the west coast with a sak classic-but now offers sheath knife kits on his website. I guess it depends on your mood that day and where you're at?

The place I've been visiting, every shrubby tree has broken branches from last years ice storm. As long as I have my underwear and matchsafe- maybe a broken beer bottle(lots of those around) I doubt i would have needed to leave the place for hospital so far this year. you can spot a good juniper to hole up under a long ways off.

If you have the luxury of choosing what you have with you in a real survival situation then choose every task specific work saving gear you can carry. What if you had all your regular pack, but lost your knives, tools axes. it'd be like really bored camping unless sick or bleeding

 

[KiljoyKutlery]

Yes he has...

Riley,
You say the first 24hrs is when you need your big knife the most... does your wood begin to chop itself after that? Yes, you could fiddle with a 4" blade or use trees/rocks to break wood but at what cost? A lot of folks seem to see the large blade as a convenient addition to the "4inch EDC". I see it the other way around. When it is convenient, carry a smaller blade to fill the gaps... for survival training and deep treks where you will be putting yourself at risk, carry a large blade that will do the work for you. You expend a ot less energy doing little tasks with a big knife than trying to do big jobs with a small blade. I struggled with that for a long time and finally caved. Even the experienced pro's get caught up in the "less is more" trap sometimes. My mentor brought me out for a week survival trek. He began by telling me my knife was too big and within the first day we were trading my 8 1/2" blade back and forth. (He had an F1 and a Gerber folder.) Laziness is the perfect tool to base a decision on. When you are a lazy survivor (like me) you tend to gravitate toward the tool that gets the job done with the least amount of effort.... It may add onces to your belt or spank your ass as you skip down the trail but you'll be contently stirring the pot with your giant chopper while Mora-Boy is over there wrenching on a 4foot log wedged between two trees...

Rick

I love this post...just love it. The truth is bitter sweet.
For me, I own mostly 4 inch knives...but I have been learning, what was a no brainer when I was a dumb kid..a big knife just makes it easier.
I would NEVER go without my 4 inch carving knives unless forced to, but most of the time, I reach for the bigger blade to do the work...even my carving projects at home have me using the big blades more and more.
All I need the little blade for is whittling and fine tuning. I admit, the big knives havnt carved better EVER, but the little knife wont cut food better, and it wont chop better, and it wont chip off large chunks to shape a project better, it wont prep a fire better, and it wont kill a zombie bear better..(just saying)....
The issue of having something on my waist isnt an issue..I carry 20 lbs on my waist eveyday...so, a 2 lb bowie is a non issue.

 

[Briarbrow]

Yes he has...

Riley,
You say the first 24hrs is when you need your big knife the most... does your wood begin to chop itself after that? Yes, you could fiddle with a 4" blade or use trees/rocks to break wood but at what cost? A lot of folks seem to see the large blade as a convenient addition to the "4inch EDC". I see it the other way around. When it is convenient, carry a smaller blade to fill the gaps... for survival training and deep treks where you will be putting yourself at risk, carry a large blade that will do the work for you. You expend a ot less energy doing little tasks with a big knife than trying to do big jobs with a small blade. I struggled with that for a long time and finally caved. Even the experienced pro's get caught up in the "less is more" trap sometimes. My mentor brought me out for a week survival trek. He began by telling me my knife was too big and within the first day we were trading my 8 1/2" blade back and forth. (He had an F1 and a Gerber folder.) Laziness is the perfect tool to base a decision on. When you are a lazy survivor (like me) you tend to gravitate toward the tool that gets the job done with the least amount of effort.... It may add onces to your belt or spank your ass as you skip down the trail but you'll be contently stirring the pot with your giant chopper while Mora-Boy is over there wrenching on a 4foot log wedged between two trees...

Rick

I could probably search it up; but if you dont mind the bother can you show me how that hooks up and carries. I have big knife too just kinda old fashioned

14 inch x 1 inch wide blade

 

[pitdog]

Just when you have everything worked out in your head and know exactly what knife is the perfect wilderness tool.....you read a post like this and the thought process begins again !!!!

 

[Rick Marchand]

You can also just slip the sheath behind your belt and the retention flap lays over to keep it from falling through.

Rick

 

[Briarbrow]

Thanks Rick. I see now the flap is stitched around not stitched down I couldn't figure that out.

 

[kgd]

It may add onces to your belt or spank your ass as you skip down the trail but you'll be contently stirring the pot with your giant chopper while Mora-Boy is over there wrenching on a 4foot log wedged between two trees...

Rick

I'm not quite sure what you are saying here Rick, but it sounds like you are saying that its better to be spanked than to be wrenching your log from between stuff?

 

[Rick Marchand]

You nailed it Ken!

 

[SouthernCross]

G'day Beef

Just trying to get to grips here.
what is everyone doing when they've got the choppers and axes on their belts? Hiking, Hunting?

To be honest, based on what I haven't seen, I would suggest sitting at a key board and discussing hypothetical situations

Can you imagine lugging that sort of weight up from the Kowmung river valley bottom

The Kowmung River we'd just climbed up from:

Now of course everything changes when you can drive to your designated "wilderness" campsite, in which case weight really isn't an issue :thumbup:

But then again, I've got to ask if this is really a "wilderness" campsite



Kind regards
Mick

 

[SouthernCross]

G'day Rick

.....You say the first 24hrs is when you need your big knife the most... does your wood begin to chop itself after that? Yes, you could fiddle with a 4" blade or use trees/rocks to break wood but at what cost?.....

Based on the deadfall that's available over here in what I would class as wilderness areas, I can say very little effort / cost

[youtube]XQEgOwpDXhI[/youtube]

[youtube]928mnpV5M6E[/youtube]


I'm also very lazy, so if it doesn't easily break from the two techniques I've shown, then I'll feed it on the fire as it burns

Now maybe I'm a slob and don't fret about perfectly trimmed wood, but hey it works for me :thumbup:

Now consider the fact that most Nth Americans don't have access to wood that can really be classed as hardwoods, your wood should be much easier to chop / break up than ours is.

Kinda funny that I have yet to see any "advocate of the large blade" actually provide video evidence that they can process softer wood faster than what I have shown with much harder & tougher wood without a big blade

Now before the usual caveat of "but the area sees so much human traffic that the easily processed wood has been removed & I need to chop up tree trunks", I again question how this area can be honestly described as "wilderness"

As a general comment ( not directed at you Rick in any way), for all those who advocate carrying a large blade as the answer to "wilderness survival", I say carry what you want, but please don't try & tell me that it is the answer without providing evidence that this is based on your own first hand experience in genuine wilderness areas , rather than just opinion :thumbup::thumbup:




Kind regards
Mick

 

[marthinus]

I like an axe for our harder woods here in South Africa. I have been experimenting with a machete but have found it to be difficult to get through the harder woods. I would love to get my hands on this one! just want to show this, but whatever your preference, who would NOT want this to play with!!!?

This axe was light, perfectly balanced and just great to look at!
http://www.heavinforge.co.za/

I still have my grandfather's axe he used on the mines, just refitting a handle and cleaning up the head to get it nice again. But if I had to have a tool for our climate I prefer an axe. Then all I need a slipjoint, but being this is BFWS and we like being prepared would also carry a 3-4" blade, dont have anything else except a mora and my home made knife at the moment.

 

[Ravaillac]

My mentor brought me out for a week survival trek. He began by telling me my knife was too big and within the first day we were trading my 8 1/2" blade back and forth. (He had an F1 and a Gerber folder.)

Actually your mentor is a very wise person.
I'll happily use a large knife... if someone else is carrying it for me.

 

[RescueRiley]

I got allot out of this thread..but now the only thing I seem to be getting is the insinuation that Aussies are the only real woodsman, and everyone who disagrees with them are posers..its also funny that these insinutaions come from folks who manage to squeeze in daily computer time between there epic outdoor adventures in a land where the trees are made of granite..oh well I guess oak, Hickory, and iron wood are not considered hardwood. Guess I learned something after all..

 

[kgd]

Cheers John,

I was trying to post a longer comment on Rick's post last night, but then decided to back off and just go for the juvenile joke instead

I think tailoring your gear to your expected situations is the way to go. Sometimes I'm in proper wilderness, more often I'm in a couple of trees not too far away from a strip mall. Sometimes the proper wilderness is softwood, sometimes its hardwood. Sometimes its summer, sometimes its winter. Sometimes I have a buddy or two, sometimes I'm going at it alone. Sometimes the main purpose is to go fishing in a lake and other times it really is to try and test a skill or two.

To think that my gear choices, including edge tools, will be the same in all those situations seems pretty unreasonable to me. One thing is for sure though, I never go out there intending on putting myself in a survival situation. However, I do provision myself with what I think is a compromise of extra gear that will help me out in a time of need without an undue burden of hauling it around. There is a lot of play in what one person considers acceptable excess baggage compared to what another thinks, and also a lot of play on any given person's perception in this regard depending on the activities they are engaging in and the perceived risks of such activities.

In the end, I rarely ever actually worry about zombie invasions nor do I try to prepare for such an eventuality. I do worry about spraining my ankle, cutting my left index finger (yet again), having the squirts and keeping myself dry and warm.

 

[pitdog]

G'Day Riley,

There's been some fair dinkum comments made so far.

When I head out with my bluey into the Back o’Bourke I leave the ute behind and just take the swag on my back.
Once I've got my bush telly goin I'll start lookin for a joey or croc that I can cut up and make some snags with.To catch these I use my boomerang.
Only time I stop is when I have to Point percy at the porcelain cos of all the grog I've been drinking.
With my tucker nearly ready I boil some water up in my billy to make myself a cuppa.I always try and camp near a billabong so I've got myself a supply of water.With the weather here it's nice to slip off me strides,put on my bathers( Budgie Smugglers ) and take a dip in the billabong to cool, gets me away from the flies for while too which gives me a rest from doing the great Australian wave !
As the light fades I roll out my matilda and get ready for a ripper sleep.

Anyway give it a burl Riley, hope there was some good oil in there for ya, and if ya wanna come with me anytime don't forget....BYO !

 

[Shotgun]

G'day Rick


Based on the deadfall that's available over here in what I would class as wilderness areas, I can say very little effort / cost

[youtube]XQEgOwpDXhI[/youtube]

[youtube]928mnpV5M6E[/youtube]


I'm also very lazy, so if it doesn't easily break from the two techniques I've shown, then I'll feed it on the fire as it burns

Now maybe I'm a slob and don't fret about perfectly trimmed wood, but hey it works for me :thumbup:

Now consider the fact that most Nth Americans don't have access to wood that can really be classed as hardwoods, your wood should be much easier to chop / break up than ours is.

Kinda funny that I have yet to see any "advocate of the large blade" actually provide video evidence that they can process softer wood faster than what I have shown with much harder & tougher wood without a big blade

Now before the usual caveat of "but the area sees so much human traffic that the easily processed wood has been removed & I need to chop up tree trunks", I again question how this area can be honestly described as "wilderness"

As a general comment ( not directed at you Rick in any way), for all those who advocate carrying a large blade as the answer to "wilderness survival", I say carry what you want, but please don't try & tell me that it is the answer without providing evidence that this is based on your own first hand experience in genuine wilderness areas , rather than just opinion :thumbup::thumbup:




Kind regards
Mick

I believe the use of a large blade is the same as the use you have your hatchet for. Furthermore, a survival situation can happen in an area that isn't a "genuine wilderness area." Wake up on the wrong side of the planet today?

 

[Cpl Punishment]

G'Day Riley,

There's been some fair dinkum comments made so far.

When I head out with my bluey into the Back o’Bourke I leave the ute behind and just take the swag on my back.
Once I've got my bush telly goin I'll start lookin for a joey or croc that I can cut up and make some snags with.To catch these I use my boomerang.
Only time I stop is when I have to Point percy at the porcelain cos of all the grog I've been drinking.
With my tucker nearly ready I boil some water up in my billy to make myself a cuppa.I always try and camp near a billabong so I've got myself a supply of water.With the weather here it's nice to slip off me strides,put on my bathers( Budgie Smugglers ) and take a dip in the billabong to cool, gets me away from the flies for while too which gives me a rest from doing the great Australian wave !
As the light fades I roll out my matilda and get ready for a ripper sleep.

Anyway give it a burl Riley, hope there was some good oil in there for ya, and if ya wanna come with me anytime don't forget....BYO !

An American, an Irishman, a Scot, an Aussie and a Brit are all sitting at a table, talking over a round of beers. All of them are speaking English and no one has a damn clue what the others are talking about!

I believe the use of a large blade is the same as the use you have your hatchet for. Furthermore, a survival situation can happen in an area that isn't a "genuine wilderness area." Wake up on the wrong side of the planet today?

Got a head rush from being upside down.

 

[Rick Marchand]

G'day Rick
Based on the deadfall that's available over here in what I would class as wilderness areas, I can say very little effort / cost

I'm also very lazy, so if it doesn't easily break from the two techniques I've shown, then I'll feed it on the fire as it burns

Now maybe I'm a slob and don't fret about perfectly trimmed wood, but hey it works for me :thumbup:

Good stuff Mick, you always provide excellent videos and pics that SHOW us what you mean. I can't argue against someones personal experience that is backed by decades in the bush.

I find it difficult to chime in on these threads because so many things get misunderstood or left out. Half of the year, I do exactly what you do. When I pose an arguement, I don't mean to imply that this is the way it is for everybody in every environment ALL the time. I joke about being lazy but it does have an underlying truth to it. I refuse to do more than I have to when I'm in bush-mode. When I'm there to work, I want to focus all my time on learning, scouting and experimenting not processing wood, making shelters, cooking and basic survival. I employ time and energy saving techniques where and when I can.

Pit and Shotgun brought up variables like environment, location, season, and personal experience. We ALL have to keep this in mind and essentially cherrypick what is useful to us.

Kinda funny that I have yet to see any "advocate of the large blade" actually provide video evidence that they can process softer wood faster than what I have shown with much harder & tougher wood without a big blade

Now before the usual caveat of "but the area sees so much human traffic that the easily processed wood has been removed & I need to chop up tree trunks", I again question how this area can be honestly described as "wilderness"

As a general comment ( not directed at you Rick in any way), for all those who advocate carrying a large blade as the answer to "wilderness survival", I say carry what you want, but please don't try & tell me that it is the answer without providing evidence that this is based on your own first hand experience in genuine wilderness areas , rather than just opinion :thumbup::thumbup:

Now that's just mean.... funny as hell, but nasty So, which areas of North America have you had experience in? If you haven't and are planning a trip, please allow me to tell you where to go. I can only guess about Australia and since I've never been there, anything I said wouldn't mean squat anyway... so I feel its best to keep my trap shut until I see for myself. Perhaps I'll get the chance to experience the outback at some point.... where should I go?

Many folks have no "real wilderness" they can escape to. Where I live and where I train with my mentor are very different. If that's all ya' got, you have to put up with manicured trails, scarcity of wood and increased human traffic. In the end there is not much difference in the skills required. Infact, I dare say that aside from being closer to the population, the over-harvesting of resources has made these areas less hospitable than real wilderness.

On the topic of real evidence...

Before everybody starts comparing scars by the campfire (or scouring their computer for pics.. lol)... I have to play the old different situations for different environments card. (I hope that's not another caveat for you, Mick)

When I get the chance to train up North.(which seems rare these days.) We have to do things differently that down here. The deadfall is simply not there because it's burried under 6ft of snow in the winter months. Standing dead is our fuel of choice. The best ones are 8-10 inches at the base and it usually only takes one good tree to supply us for 2-3 days. There is no outside firepit because night temps drop below -45C at times. The most efficient shelters are small with an inside heatsource. You need a place to get warm and dry your clothes that is out of the elements to remain out there for any length of time. The tipi or wiki-up are my favorites. We can, and do process quite a bit of wood, initially but that is used to line the inside of the shelter (absorbing and radiating heat) and remains as "back up" should we get snowed in or injured. The working wood for our shelter gets processed as we use it. There is no sense in cutting up an entire day's worth of wood if there is a chance you may have to leave early(it happens). The pit is 1ft x 1ft and walled with rocks or packed earth so the fuel that goes in has to be smaller than that. What we do is lay our dead standing booty just outside the entrance to the shelter, then pull it in and process pieces in the comfort of our shelter, as we need it. Having a large blade and (if you are so lucky) a handsaw really makes life easier.

The methods in your videos just wouldn't work out there, Mick. You speak of true hardwood and I can't argue that one either. I can just imagine what kind of woods such a harsh dry environment creates. Though on your video that wood seemed to be falling apart fairly easily. You would be hardpressed to break a 4inch dia piece of silver maple the way you did that wood in the vid. Softwood is easier to break but it is also easier to score and break to size. In some arenas, SIZE does matter. A few well placed chops and I can accurately snap pieces to fit my hearth. I realise that my original post in this thread may have sounded great to some but quite meaningless to others. I have a habit of not including the your mileage may vary clause.

I would like to hear from other's first hand experience too... pics are always a plus.

Small shelter, small fire. -30C night

Small fire pit. The little fire eventually heats up the greenwood/packed earth walls. Then you sleep with your back against it and stay warm. It really doesn't require much wood when you design your shelter to maximize efficiency. The drawback is that that little bit of wood needs to be process a bit more.

 

[pitdog]

Great post Rick !

Have you ever used the 4 wool blankets stiched together method for sleeping. The opening's are all left at the top so you can fill the top and bottom baffles with debris as insulation or sleep in the bottom baffle so you have 3 blankets on top of you etc.
I'd imagine it would be quite bulky but seems in keeping with your style of traditional bushcraft techniques and would be quite verstile.