a heavy tool for survivng th first 24

[kgd]

Nice post Rick. You typed all those words and left me nothing to make fun of you about !

 

[Rick Marchand]

Thanks Pit,
I have done a 2 blanket bedroll like you describe and because you fold the blanket over, its kinda like 4 layers. Most of the time we don't bring any sleeping bags and only 1 blanket if any at all. My anorak (see top pic) is double layered wool blanket. I usually sleep in that.

 

[Rick Marchand]

Nice post Rick. You typed all those words and left me nothing to make fun of you about !

What? you serious?.... nuthin'!

You're just not tryin' bud.

 

[Gadgetaholic]

Laziness is the perfect tool to base a decision on. When you are a lazy survivor (like me) you tend to gravitate toward the tool that gets the job done with the least amount of effort

Working hard is for suckers, working smart is for me! In a survival situation you may find that food & water is limited - working hard and getting a good sweat going is going to be a really bad idea in a situation like that. Giving the necessary consideration to environment & climate it just makes sense to equip yourself with whatever will do the job most efficiently before heading into the bush.

At the moment I have some larger blades like my BK-9 & KA-BAR Kukri Machete & HI Khukuri, but I'm thinking of getting a couple of standard machetes - the Condor El-Salvador is about twenty bucks. I might stretch the budget a bit and get an ESEE Lite Machete because it is fairly light for a machete and has a comfortable handle (micarta scales) which would be good when working it hard. I might also grab a Condor Kukri Machete for a good chopper that isn't overly long, at not much more than twenty bucks it is hard to think of a reason not to buy one. In the areas I go camping the wood is mostly pine so I can chop it with a big knife/machete/khukri fairly easily and don't really need an axe - in other environments I might choose an axe instead.

My understanding is that in many parts of the world a machete is all that is necessary to accomplish a huge variety of tasks - probably the most popular 'big knife' in the world.

 

[RescueRiley]

Great post Rick... I won;t even pretend to have the experience as many of the folks on here.. my only motivation for practicing a skill is just the love of it.. sometimes I think the goal of pursuit obscures my view of just how much I love the woods.. SOmewhat missing the forest for the tree so to say.. But that's aside the point.
As I said before I am a hobby woodsman at best, and an armchair survivalist of the 1st degree. my nose is planted in a book 10x more than it is planted in a tinder bundle somewhere. I think largely the discrepancies in opinion we see are semantically based.
My whole point when starting this thread 1000 pages ago was to state that when I was on my outing I wish I had a chopping tool, and I could see how in the first 24 hours of a survival situation how it could be very useful, it does not mean I think everyone should carry a 10 inch blade..or a double bit axe on every day hike around the lake...there are plenty of times when I have nothing more than a pocket knife or yes a mora.. (even though it won;t stand up to Aussie hardwood) The reality is though that where I practice and play.. the odds of me being in a real situation are very slim... the fact is anyone of us has a greater chance of dying in the car on the way to the woods than in the woods themselves.. I've said this before and I'll say it again... Nature is not out to get us....and the doomsday what if scenarios are not dissimilar to what karate students do when the imagine themselves jumped by 10 ninjas, and how they would fight them off..
the reality is use what you like, love the outdoors,love teh out doors and own the skills. ....apparently when you own them though just make sure they're video recorded for all the doubters

 

[kgd]

What? you serious?.... nuthin'!

You're just not tryin' bud.

Okay.....since you asked, I'm guessing that the trench in the center of the shelter from the last photo you posted was dug out by that big chopper blade of yours dragging from your belt every time you crawled in and out of the shelter. Thats probably pretty hard on your sheath

 

[crossada]

okay.....since you asked, i'm guessing that the trench in the center of the shelter from the last photo you posted was dug out by that big chopper blade of yours dragging from your belt every time you crawled in and out of the shelter. Thats probably pretty hard on your sheath :d :d

lmao!

 

[Rick Marchand]

Well.... it was BIG and draaaagging and attached to me.... but it weren't no knife! Wink-wink, nudge-nudge....


Rick


That was actually a cold air vent that we layed birchbark over and covered with pine baughs with the rest of the floor.

Worked like a charm!... kinda.

 

[kgd]

That was actually a cold air vent that we layed birchbark over and covered with pine baughs with the rest of the floor.

Worked like a charm!... kinda.

Yes, best to keep the fresh air out and the warm farts in! Good thinking

 

[beef]

there are plenty of times when I have nothing more than a pocket knife or yes a mora.. (even though it won't stand up to Aussie hardwood)

I use a mora on Aussie hardwood primarily. Though mine is starting to look like a stiletto. With a micrbevel. My F1 definitely holds its edge longer on redgum though.

I got allot out of this thread..but now the only thing I seem to be getting is the insinuation that Aussies are the only real woodsman, and everyone who disagrees with them are posers..its also funny that these insinutaions come from folks who manage to squeeze in daily computer time between there epic outdoor adventures in a land where the trees are made of granite.

I didn't have the greatest internet reception from the valley floor on my trip last weekend. The SPOT messenger couldn't even get through.

 

[Any Cal.]

It is really quite simple, if you think about it.

Everything you take into the woods is a tradeoff. For the same amount of weight, I could carry a khukri or my 15* down bag. Or, I could take the bag and the khukri, but I would have to leave my tent. If I wanted all 3, I would have to leave the stove, pot, first aid, firestarter, flashlight, and 1 day or more worth of food.

If I wanted to carry the khukri in addition to my other gear, I would need a heavier pack as well to support it, and probably a few other luxuries to support me after lugging around several extra lbs of gear all day.

No, a big knife isn't magic. Yes, it can make things easier if it was your only tool, but no, it isn't necessarily better than other equipment you could have brought in its place(edit-if you had broken a leg and were stranded on a dayhike, would you rather have a tyvek tarp, sleeping bag, alcohol stove and pot, and two Mountain House, or a big knife?)

 

[SouthernCross]

WOW,


I have said in the past, that I personally take wildenesss skills very seriously :thumbup:

I really didn't think I would hit the raw nerve amoungst some that my previous post appears to have

Tells me that I might just be on to something

Now before I respond to some of the individual comments made, can I first up set the tone of my original comments by quoting some of the comments made by others in response to one of our moderators post some time ago (i.e in the "Put up or shut up" thread seen here http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699374

….Well, I can't take Terrill's idea (he has been too kind to me over the years) so I will modify it and offer a challenge to those up for it in 2010. It is meant to keep us honest and help us all learn what works and what just sounds cool online.

Here is what we can do and this is as much of your event(s) as it is the next guy so feel free to buzz in. We can have a few venues where guys can hang out, swap stories, tell some tall tales, trade gear and of course "Put Up or Shut Up". Like the doomed CT gathering a couple years back, we can have a theme like fire or carving or sheltercraft or whatever. We can also have a video version (pictures alone can be deceptive) with Youtube submissions of yourself doing whatever skill is picked.No trick photography! We can even assign judges that will be picked at random to choose who has the most bragging rights.I may even be able to get some makers and manufacturers to donate prizes. I don't really plan on telling anyone to "shut up" but I know if a skill isn't feasible the participant won't try it and will bow out by default.

……So, will you guys be up to "Put Up or Shut Up?"

Taking pictures doing stuff, making videos, etc and posting them is really what the forum is about anyway. For this to be really cool, it seems it would be best to do it exactly like you said above.

- Pick your venue and date.
- Pick a theme for the venue.
- Let the people attending participate in person.
- Video submissions only for folks not able to attend for skills that pertain to the theme.
- Two sets of "winners." One for the "live" folks, and one for the "video" folks. Seems like it would be hard to pit those two against each other, because the live stuff could go in a direction that is based on stuff happening at the venue and would be difficult for others to compete.
- Have as many as you can in the year.

The videos would eliminate the "look a picture of a firesteel" pulls out a bic "oh look a fire" I am assuming that is what you meant by "trick photography." Unless you meant someone photoshopping Ray Mear's head off, and putting theirs in

Sounds fun!

B

It really isn't meant as a competition first. I'd be happy if I saw more people host events and show up to others. 2010 should be a year to get out more, meet others, expand skill sets, demonstrate ability (don't just write about it) and above all, have fun. So, who is going to host an event? Who is willing to take some $, put it aside and travel to meet up? Who will put up or shut up?

I like the put up or shut up moto, well said.

Please note that the bolded emphasis in the quotes above have been added by myself

Now for all those who feel offended by my comments that have exactly the same intention, I would expect to see you immediately go to the linked post & make fun of those whose comments I have shown above

Or, are your critisms based on the fact that I happen to come from a different hemisphere, or might just have challenged the ideas of those who only sit behind a keyboard and express an "informed opinion on wilderness & survival skills"





Kind regards
Mick

 

[SouthernCross]

G’day RR

I got allot out of this thread..but now the only thing I seem to be getting is the insinuation that Aussies are the only real woodsman, and everyone who disagrees with them are posers..its also funny that these insinutaions come from folks who manage to squeeze in daily computer time between there epic outdoor adventures in a land where the trees are made of granite..oh well I guess oak, Hickory, and iron wood are not considered hardwood. Guess I learned something after all..

I really can’t see how you have come to this conclusion when I have commented on what I believe is an accurate observation.

My comment about the relative hardness of what most Nth Americans class as a benchmark of hardwoods i.e. Oak, Hickory, Ironwood (and I’ll add hard Maple to the list) is based on 6 years of internet forum reading. I may add that whilst I have personally no experience with Nth American trees, I am aware of the Janka hardness rating on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janka_hardness_test) that rates Red Oak (northern) at 1290, white oak at 1360 and hard maple/sugar maple at 1450

Hickory is rated at 1820 (this info is found here: http://homerepair.about.com/od/interiorhomerepair/ss/wd_flr_intro_4.htm)

I haven’t been able to find a relative hardness rating for Ironwood. Is this a local term or a binomial name for the wood?

When you consider the fact that most of the hardwood that I have access to are well over 2,000 on the same scale, you might just appreciate that I’m not blowing it out my a$$, but rather, I am offering an informed opinion based on available evidence.

I do apologise if I have challenged your ideas of the nature of the wood you class as hard, but you should be starting to see that my perspective on things is different, based on available facts. :thumbup:

BTW, on a conciliatory note, I’m satisfied that you are the exception to the majority in so far as you do get out & about and don’t try to pass yourself off as an expert.



G’day Pit

G'Day Riley,

There's been some fair dinkum comments made so far.

When I head out with my bluey into the Back o’Bourke I leave the ute behind and just take the swag on my back.
Once I've got my bush telly goin I'll start lookin for a joey or croc that I can cut up and make some snags with.To catch these I use my boomerang.
Only time I stop is when I have to Point percy at the porcelain cos of all the grog I've been drinking.
With my tucker nearly ready I boil some water up in my billy to make myself a cuppa.I always try and camp near a billabong so I've got myself a supply of water.With the weather here it's nice to slip off me strides,put on my bathers( Budgie Smugglers ) and take a dip in the billabong to cool, gets me away from the flies for while too which gives me a rest from doing the great Australian wave !
As the light fades I roll out my matilda and get ready for a ripper sleep.

Anyway give it a burl Riley, hope there was some good oil in there for ya, and if ya wanna come with me anytime don't forget....BYO !

I already knew the British had a sense of humour.

BTW, next time, try & show me that you do more than take your dogs for a walk (you see, we Aussies also have a sense of humour too )


G’day Shotgun

I believe the use of a large blade is the same as the use you have your hatchet for. Furthermore, a survival situation can happen in an area that isn't a "genuine wilderness area." Wake up on the wrong side of the planet today?

I agree a chopper is a chopper. :thumbup:

But you seem to be missing the whole point of my post.

I have provided ample evidence of what a hatchet is capable of in my hands. I’m still waiting to see what a large blade is capable of in the hands of those who advocate it and pics/ videos that actually show the environment that the same advocates are claiming to use them in. :thumbup:

I may be cynical, but after 6 years on the internet (and seeing numerous examples of "Walther Mitty outdoor adventurers"), I'm more interested in evidence than I am in opinion :thumbup:



G'day Cpl

An American, an Irishman, a Scot, an Aussie and a Brit are all sitting at a table, talking over a round of beers. All of them are speaking English and no one has a damn clue what the others are talking about! ...

LMAO, especially from someone who speaks "American".

BTW, your aware that the term Brit refers to people from England, Wales, Scotland & Nth Ireland, aren’t you?




G’day Rick
"Good stuff Mick, you always provide excellent videos and pics that SHOW us what you mean. I can't argue against someones personal experience that is backed by decades in the bush.

I find it difficult to chime in on these threads because so many things get misunderstood or left out. Half of the year, I do exactly what you do. When I pose an arguement, I don't mean to imply that this is the way it is for everybody in every environment ALL the time. I joke about being lazy but it does have an underlying truth to it. I refuse to do more than I have to when I'm in bush-mode. When I'm there to work, I want to focus all my time on learning, scouting and experimenting not processing wood, making shelters, cooking and basic survival. I employ time and energy saving techniques where and when I can.

Pit and Shotgun brought up variables like environment, location, season, and personal experience. We ALL have to keep this in mind and essentially cherrypick what is useful to us.”

I don't know what happened with my attempt to quote your post (doesn't seem to have worked, so I've included it in quotation marks and italics in the hope others will identify it as a direct quote :thumbup.

You will notice that I specifically excluded you from my comments, because I have seen enough over the years to lead me to believe that your opinions are based on first hand experience. :thumbup:


“Now that's just mean.... funny as hell, but nasty ”
It’s not intended to be nasty, but what I believe is a long overdue reality check.

“Many folks have no "real wilderness" they can escape to.”
I accept this as the truth, but does this stop them from offering up their opinions as fact, without providing evidence that their opinion is based on real first hand experience, or are they just recycling the opinion of others without acknowledgement?

I know this might just be a vain hope, but I really do hope that my comments are taken from the perspective of someone that really does view wilderness survival as a serious topic





Kind regards
Mick

 

[OwenM]

SouthernCross, there's some good stuff in the videos and information you put up, and I don't think anyone is questioning your skill at woodcraft, but it has little to do with survival for many of us, and the environments or situations we will realistically find ourselves in.
Bolding the condescending crap you direct at people who disagree with you, and insinuating that by doing so they are automatically discredited because you think you're God's gift to the woodlands...yeah, it's probably going to strike a nerve with some people.

You want to talk about a reality check-I've got news for you. Going out back of the house and pretending the last couple of centuries didn't happen while you whittle on some sticks because in your imagination you've mysteriously and magically materialized in some ideal setting with your favorite traditional tools and no injuries is not surviving. You're just playing in the woods.

Sorry if you have to wait for a reply to a reply or whatever. I'm getting prepped to leave for four days of playing in the woods myself. I just don't have to prove anything to anyone here, or pretend it's something more than it is.

 

[SouthernCross]

G'day OwenM

.... but it has little to do with survival for many of us, and the environments or situations we will realistically find ourselves in.

Now I have to ask are you referring to an Aussie environment, or are you talking about an outdoor experience with mobile phone reception, tracks that see enough foot traffic that they are worn bare, or something other?

..Bolding the condescending crap you direct at people who disagree with you, and insinuating that by doing so they are automatically discredited because you think you're God's gift to the woodlands...yeah, it's probably going to strike a nerve with some people.

The reason I bold text is to serve to emphasise the individual points I have attempeted to make (bear in mind the difficulty of effectively communicating via the typed word over the internet).

Apart from your assumtions, can you please point out where I have directly discredited anyone (other than ask, what I see as a legitimate question, of those who "make informed comments" without providing evidence that they are in fact informed by first hand experience)?

If you think that someone who might just actually express an opinion that is informed by first hand experience is a god, well then I guess I'm guilty as charged

Because as I've expressed in the past, this is the only opinion I am prepared to offer

....You want to talk about a reality check-I've got news for you. Going out back of the house and pretending the last couple of centuries didn't happen while you whittle on some sticks because in your imagination you've mysteriously and magically materialized in some ideal setting with your favorite traditional tools and no injuries is not surviving. You're just playing in the woods.

Man you really need to travel a bit more

Please feel free to show me your previous posts that show what you mean by "wilderness survival"

Because, I'm always happy to learn from someone who knows more than me. :thumbup:

BTW, I have consistently provided evidence that the opinions I express on this forum are backed up by real first hand experience. Does this make me a God, or someone who might just know what they are talking about?

....Sorry if you have to wait for a reply to a reply or whatever. I'm getting prepped to leave for four days of playing in the woods myself. I just don't have to prove anything to anyone here, or pretend it's something more than it is.

I acknowledge that you feel that you don't have to prove anything to yourself :thumbup:

But I will ask, if you have a digital camera, is it really that much effort to show us what you get up to rather than just talk about it?

As unreasonable as it may seem to you and others here, this is all I'm asking for





Kind regards
Mick

 

[OwenM]

I don't have time to do the quotes thing.

1-any environment. Why would most of us care about the Aussie environment if we're never there? Is that the same across the whole continent?
When planning for any survival situation, though, you have to ask how you got there. What happened that turned what you were doing into that survival situation, and what are you going to do to get yourself out of it?
If you're in a plane crash, take a fall, aren't you injured?
If you're out in the wilderness alone, did you not hike there?
If you're lost, don't you have your gear?
What I said was that what you post here as "survival" doesn't relate to the activities of most people. Matter of fact, I can hardly see how it relates to anyone. How did you get there? What do you need to do to get out?
We don't live out in the jungle, or the desert, or the high mountains. You don't either. You're constantly posting on an internet forum, uploading pictures and videos, so who are we kidding about living like aborigines? We're not trying to set up shop and hang out for a couple of months, we're trying to get back to our air conditioning and internet forums, so we can tell each other how smart we are.

2-I'm pretty sure you know where you've attempted to discredit people, because there's examples of it right here in this thread. You don't base it on much besides a lack of posts on a forum, though. How much does that really mean?
You just tried it with me. Hard to do when I don't care, or put on a false front.

3-What do my previous posts show about how I view wilderness survival?
Well, I sometimes post about being prepared for the bad things that can realistically happen to me. BORING. I'm not afraid of the outdoors, nor do I obsess over what might happen to me when I go there. I prepare for those things, but most short-term survival tasks are simple in both concept and action-it's more a matter of doing it.
Here's the kicker for you in this little argument-you have not posted one whit of anything you do being done firsthand in a survival experience, either. Neither has anyone else, and I seriously doubt we'll ever see anyone snapping pics of themselves when their life hangs on their actions, and time is not on their side.
I can do all the things you post videos of in my back yard. Well, I can't do all of them, 'cause I don't have the skills, but you could do them in my back yard. That's practice, and that's great, but it's not survival.
Get a compound fracture in your leg miles from the nearest road, with noone looking for a few days, and try that stuff. Then you'll be surviving. That could happen to me this Friday, except I won't be alone for a change.

4-I said I don't have to prove anything to anyone else. I've already proved everything I need to to myself, and in a lot worse "survival situations" than I'm ever likely to find myself in out in the woods.
I'm not afraid, I don't doubt myself, and I will act accordingly when my life is on the line. These things I know(sorry, I don't have video of it).
What I do, and how well I do it will depend on the situation I find myself in, and how competent I am(or not) at what needs to be done. What I don't do is worry.

I've got a digital camera. There's a bunch of threads I started sharing pics of places I go hiking. Like I said before-playing. I post one about every month, I guess. My pics aren't great, but I live in a pretty state, and I have fun with it. I'll take a dozen pics of a waterfall, but fuzzing up a stick to start a fire isn't exactly memorable.
Those threads have nothing to do with survival, but we don't have a dedicated outdoor forum, just this.

I've actually got a lot of respect for the skills you have, but if you think what you do dictates what everyone else does, or that your environment sets a worldwide standard, you are mistaken. A lot of us get carried away with our own opinions. I'm guilty of the same thing. You're taking it to an extreme, though, when you start calling people out just because they have a different set of opinions or experiences than you do.

 

[RescueRiley]

MIck,

I don't really care that you challenged my "perception of hard wood" as I have mentioned before you know I have the utmost respect for your experience. Honestly I could care less about looking up the hardness ratings of wood, I know what woods work for what applications in my envorinment, and where to find them. I appreciate the nod on the fact that I get out, and that I seem to have an honest opinion of my skill level. My main issue is the condescending way you put things, I think its borderline offensive, and kind of makes you sound like a know it all.. (lord knows we have enough know it alls floating around internet forms.) it does a disservice to you knowledge base and the information you try to circulate.
You have allot of experience, but you are not alone here in the seasoned veteran department (I obviously am not referring to myself here) and they seem to be able to impart knowledge without an attitude that suggests (I'm the man and everyone elses contributions are meaning less unless they agree with me or can provide documented evidence of there prowess) for the most part. but to each his own I guess
and again nothing but respect for your skill and experience..

 

[Foilist]

Going out back of the house and pretending the last couple of centuries didn't happen while you whittle on some sticks because in your imagination you've mysteriously and magically materialized in some ideal setting with your favorite traditional tools and no injuries is not surviving. You're just playing in the woods.

Ha-ha - I love this description because, honestly, it is EXACTLY what I am doing outdoors.

 

[Rick Marchand]

Hey, the truth of the matter is we are all supposed to be here for the same reasons.

Share
Learn
Entertain
and look at knives...

We are individuals, subject to miscommunication, misinformation, arrogance, pride, hostility and all that other crappy stuff. We are letting this stuff ruin a good thread. Time for everyone to swallow their pride and get back on track.


Can we hit the RESET button now?

BTW, when I say "arrogance"... I am referring to everyone else but me... I'm above that sort of thing.


Rick

 

[Rick Marchand]

Riley...

This is what you need for an EDC...... just feed it 2 Moras per day and it's good to go!