A Kershaw slipped in under the radar - the Kershaw Median!

[9blades]

You should stamp your feet and scream about it......

For $20 other brands are selling 9CR, 8CR, and AUS8. All of which smoke this 420/3CR crap. The difference from M390 to 8CR is less than the difference from 3CR to 8CR to put that into perspective. 3CR is what they use in those 50 cent safety scissors for kids. To boot, most of their competitors are not only using better steel, but they splurge the extra 4 pennies for bronze washers too.

It's just maximizing profits. That's what business is all about though, if profits are your most crucial business model. Such tactics are why I started avoiding Gerber and Boker years ago, and I don't feel as much pride in my other KAI products because if this 3CR binge. That's just one guy's opinion though, and I'm sure KAI/ZT won't miss nor care that they're losing a few hundred dollars of my business per year.

Opinions are opinions. Gotta love free markets and free speech.

Who cares about the nylon washers? It's assisted opening. Giving up on brand because they sell a knife that you consider sub par, is like deciding that all of the drinks in a bar are garbage because you ordered a bud light. The fact is most people that are spending $20 on a knife probably will never sharpen it. If they do, chances are they'll get it reasonably sharp, and be happy with that. I'm not saying there aren't exceptions, but frankly this is an argument that's not worth having. 8Cr and 3Cr are both pretty crappy, I doubt anyone outside of the enthusiasts could tell the difference, though.

TLR, yes, 3Cr is crap, yes, 8Cr is slightly less crappy, not even close enough to condemn a company, nylon/PB washers on an assisted knife, WHO CARES.

 

[fuzzynuk]

...this exploded. I think people would agree that spending 5 or so more bucks on aus 8 just shows what kind of jump you can get in steel. I'm no steel snob my favorite knife is a utilitac (zt 0566 in close second although I just keep coming back to the utuilitac) but there is a noticeable difference between 3cr and aus 8.
And I think saying a broad statement like "The fact is most people that are spending $20 on a knife probably will never sharpen it" is a bit unfair to make. Just cause someone may not be able to afford better steel doesn't mean they wouldn't want to sharpen it.

Now that's my opinion. Have a good night everyone!

 

[9blades]

...this exploded. I think people would agree that spending 5 or so more bucks on aus 8 just shows what kind of jump you can get in steel. I'm no steel snob my favorite knife is a utilitac (zt 0566 in close second although I just keep coming back to the utuilitac) but there is a noticeable difference between 3cr and aus 8.
And I think saying a broad statement like "The fact is most people that are spending $20 on a knife probably will never sharpen it" is a bit unfair to make. Just cause someone may not be able to afford better steel doesn't mean they wouldn't want to sharpen it.

Now that's my opinion. Have a good night everyone!

I'm just talking from my limited the experience. The knives I've seen people carrying, outside of the knife community almost all had their factory edge. . .but you are right, I painted with too broad of a brush.

 

[flarp]

That's a neat design. Very clean looking.

It's just maximizing profits. That's what business is all about though, if profits are your most crucial business model. Such tactics are why I started avoiding Gerber and Boker years ago, and I don't feel as much pride in my other KAI products because if this 3CR binge. That's just one guy's opinion though, and I'm sure KAI/ZT won't miss nor care that they're losing a few hundred dollars of my business per year.

Vote with your wallet. If you don't like the knives with 3Cr blades, don't buy them. They weren't targeting you with that product, just like KAI, Spyderco, and Benchmade aren't targeting the average consumer with their LE's, sprint runs, or Gold Class offerings. The multi-billion dollar retailer that is carrying that dealer exclusive evidently believes there is a market for it, and they likely have a bit more perspective than us knife hobbyists on an Internet forum.

Making profit isn't a bad thing. It keeps the companies around and making the products that we enjoy. Higher profit also grants greater flexibility to experiment on new designs and innovations that would otherwise not be financially viable to pursue.

 

[jimw451]

A $20 knife that will sell as long as they make them, and sell well I would imagine. To those that like the shape and brand. Nothing more, nothing less. Most people will probably never know of "premium steel" or even care. I like the simplicity of it and especially the affordability. I would gift it to a [doesn't care about premium steel] friend in a heartbeat.

 

[DShiflet]

Regular price is 40$. It's on sale for 20$.

Kershaw Clash 31$ - 8cr
Kershaw Chill 21$ - 8cr
Kershaw OD-2 16$ - 8cr
Kershaw One Ton 20$ - 8cr
Kershaw RJI 29$ - 8cr
Kershaw Brawler 30$ - 8cr
Kershaw Volt II 26$ - 8cr
Kershaw Nerve 17$ - 8cr
Kershaw Cryo II 40$ - 8cr
Kershaw Zing 32$ - 8cr
CRKT Ripple 39$ - 8cr (With bearings.)
Ontario Rat 1 30$ - AUS-8
Ontario Rat 2 27$ - AUS-8
Ontario Utilitac 2 25$ - AUS-8
Zancudo 30$ - AUS-8

You can even find a lot of those cheaper, too. My Clash was only $22. And likewise, you can get the Kershaw Kuro and Crown, both in 8Cr, for $20 or less too, then you got Kershaw's Emerson collabs and the Strobe, 8Cr and under $40.

That's what people are complaining about, it's not so much that Kershaw releases budget knives in 3Cr, it's that, even as of LAST YEAR, they used 8Cr for their budget line(and for that matter, this year's Thistle is 8Cr too). People are annoyed that Kershaw, who had a reputation for making good budget knives with a decent steel(8Cr) for the price point, have now dropped to a steel that's pretty much the same sort of steel used in no-name Chinese knives. Nobody is asking for Elmax or S110V on a $40 knife, but at that price point, there is NO reason we shouldn't at LEAST get the 8Cr steel they HAD been using on $20 knives.

 

[o4tg]

Who cares about the nylon washers? It's assisted opening. Giving up on brand because they sell a knife that you consider sub par, is like deciding that all of the drinks in a bar are garbage because you ordered a bud light. The fact is most people that are spending $20 on a knife probably will never sharpen it. If they do, chances are they'll get it reasonably sharp, and be happy with that. I'm not saying there aren't exceptions, but frankly this is an argument that's not worth having. 8Cr and 3Cr are both pretty crappy, I doubt anyone outside of the enthusiasts could tell the difference, though.

TLR, yes, 3Cr is crap, yes, 8Cr is slightly less crappy, not even close enough to condemn a company, nylon/PB washers on an assisted knife, WHO CARES.

Nylon washers are the single most common cause of blade play in cheap knives. Bar none.

8CR is a mega uber super steel in comparison to 3CR. And if they're not going to ever sharpen it, wouldn't they want a steel that won't go dull after opening up a few envelopes?

I don't gift my friends crap knives. Knowing my luck they'd use it to the point it was dull (where better steels wouldn't be) and flip their car or something and get pinned and unable to cut their seatbelt with their "trusted" name brand knife I gave them.

Aside from that, if they're cheaping out on the blade steel so severely, how could one ever trust the steel they're using for their locks? I mean we're talking Frost cutlery level materials here. Sure I will vote with my wallet, but I'll also tell people to avoid Kershaw now because they might accidentally buy an unsafe throw away assuming the name still carried the quality it used to. Before all this you could say "just buy a Kershaw" and they'd get a good knife no matter what they bought. Yes, I find it VERY disappointing that's not the case anymore. Again I'll point to Gerber as an example.

 

[PG5768]

Don't know if its been stated (TL : DR), but this is a Cabelas exclusive built to their spec. Cabelas' staff made the decisions of what steel, washers, blade shape, etc. from a range of choices provided by KAI. KAI just built to contract spec to satisfy their customer, Cabelas', not to satisfy a bunch of knife industry "experts" here on BFC.

 

[rsngfrce]

You can even find a lot of those cheaper, too. My Clash was only $22. And likewise, you can get the Kershaw Kuro and Crown, both in 8Cr, for $20 or less too, then you got Kershaw's Emerson collabs and the Strobe, 8Cr and under $40.

That's what people are complaining about, it's not so much that Kershaw releases budget knives in 3Cr, it's that, even as of LAST YEAR, they used 8Cr for their budget line(and for that matter, this year's Thistle is 8Cr too). People are annoyed that Kershaw, who had a reputation for making good budget knives with a decent steel(8Cr) for the price point, have now dropped to a steel that's pretty much the same sort of steel used in no-name Chinese knives. Nobody is asking for Elmax or S110V on a $40 knife, but at that price point, there is NO reason we shouldn't at LEAST get the 8Cr steel they HAD been using on $20 knives.

I don't think this can fairly be compared to the other knives that have been listed because it is a "dealer exclusive". Does that justify it being lower quality for a similar price... probably not (and CERTAINLY NOT to US). But it DOES put it in a different category, IMO, and it is not aimed at US.

I think you are hitting the point I made earlier, about being surprised that Kershaw would WANT to release a 3Cr knife now days... but I doubt it is so much that Kershaw WANTED to, but rather "the exclusive dealer" required a certain price point/profit margin and that likely required 3Cr steel :greedy_dollars: (and I would personally think that using it was not an easy decision for Kershaw to make). I SERIOUSLY doubt we are going to start seeing a bunch of Kershaw knives coming out with 3Cr (or, for that matter, ANY that aren't a "certain type of"-dealer exclusive). If the average person buys one of these as their first Kershaw and finds that the steel seems really poor to them, Kershaw risks loosing a future customer, but that is likely outweighed by the number they will sell to people who don't care (and by the way, I ordered mine and I KNOW what it is, along with the exclusive black NON-GROOVE groove tanto :confusion:, which features 8Cr13MOV at the same price...).

(UPDATE): I'm actually pretty much agreeing with PG5768 here, but somehow I didn't see his post before I wrote this...

(UPDATE#2, replying to another post I missed before mine):

Aside from that, if they're cheaping out on the blade steel so severely, how could one ever trust the steel they're using for their locks? I mean we're talking Frost cutlery level materials here. Sure I will vote with my wallet, but I'll also tell people to avoid Kershaw now because they might accidentally buy an unsafe throw away assuming the name still carried the quality it used to. Before all this you could say "just buy a Kershaw" and they'd get a good knife no matter what they bought. Yes, I find it VERY disappointing that's not the case anymore. Again I'll point to Gerber as an example.

You are, of course, perfectly entitled to your opinion, but as I stated earlier in this post, I SERIOUSLY DO NOT THINK that two large chain "dealer exclusive" knives with 3Cr steel is ANY indication in the SLIGHTEST that Kershaw knives are now going to start being produced with 3Cr... these knives are an extreme anomaly, IMO.



(Now I'm off to eat an :apple: a each: and a :watermelon:, because this forum has more strange emojis than I have ever seen, and I need to get over my desire to use them...)

 

[Murphenstein44]

You are, of course, perfectly entitled to your opinion, but as I stated earlier in this post, I SERIOUSLY DO NOT THINK that two large chain "dealer exclusive" knives with 3Cr steel is ANY indication in the SLIGHTEST that Kershaw knives are now going to start being produced with 3Cr... these knives are an extreme anomaly, IMO.

The Manifold, Lifter, Starter, DC Tickfaw, DC Dunbar, DC Bisland, and DC Quax are all made with 3Cr. I know there's already a thread on the DC line of knives discussing the 3Cr, so I don't mean to bring that discussion here when we're talking about the Median, but I thought I might just let you know. (I assume you already know about the Mini Thermite.)

 

[rsngfrce]

The Manifold, Lifter, Starter, DC Tickfaw, DC Dunbar, DC Bisland, and DC Quax are all made with 3Cr. I know there's already a thread on the DC line of knives discussing the 3Cr, so I don't mean to bring that discussion here when we're talking about the Median, but I thought I might just let you know.

:foot: I stand corrected! I appreciate you pointing this out to me, I was not aware of this. Now I think I will go hide under a rock somewhere...

Kershaw, Kershaw, Kershaw... what am I going to do with you, I try to defend you and...

 

[grownstar]

The Manifold, Lifter, Starter, DC Tickfaw, DC Dunbar, DC Bisland, and DC Quax are all made with 3Cr. I know there's already a thread on the DC line of knives discussing the 3Cr, so I don't mean to bring that discussion here when we're talking about the Median, but I thought I might just let you know. (I assume you already know about the Mini Thermite.)

I totally get what you're saying, but to be fair all the models listed are the ones that you'd find in the big box stores. Every single one. I see the Starter series at Bass Pro all the time, and the Duck Commander ones will surely make a killing at Wally World, Academy or another store like that. We need to keep in mind that's the crowd Kershaw is catering to. At the end of the day, this is still a business and Kershaw needs to make money.

Kershaw still makes plenty of models in 8CR for good prices. I just got a Strobe and it's awesome. And I really need to try an Emerson model. They look slick.

As for the Gerber comparisons, you just need to throw that out the window. Gerber got bought out by Fiskars and went down hill a while back. Kershaw still makes plenty of models in the US with 14C28N, S30V, etc. Not to mention the whole ZT line which is still kicking butt and taking names.

 

[Murphenstein44]

I totally get what you're saying, but to be fair all the models listed are the ones that you'd find in the big box stores.

I said literally nothing with that post. I just thought I would let rsng know that Kershaw is willingly using that steel, not at a specific retailer's request. The only opinion I really have to voice here is that I'm sad the Median isn't in a nicer steel, because its size is perfect for me. I understand to which crowd they're marketing and it makes sense from every point of view related to reality (aside from the posts above about how there are knives that use 8Cr that are as cheap). I think Kershaw's a great company and makes great knives. I'm just sad that I'm going to have to miss out on the Median and Mini Thermite, and I like to try to help by informing any who are uninformed.

 

[poolhustler]

Kershaw / ZT makes knives for the entire gamut of end users. Not just the elite users. What is wrong with that??

Do the same brainiacs here complain to Chevy that mfg crap cars too??

Bunch of guys here with a Masters in Business from USC huh??

 

[DShiflet]

I totally get what you're saying, but to be fair all the models listed are the ones that you'd find in the big box stores. Every single one.

The thing is, used to be(as of last year even), the budget knives, the ones you'd see in the big box stores, the ones you'd see for $20, STILL came in the 8Cr steel. Look at the Kuro and the Crown, both of which are $20 or less, both of which are available at Walmart, and both of which, feature 8Cr steel. When you start getting up to the $40 range(like the Strobe and the Emersons), at that point, you're paying as much for Chinese made 8Cr knives as you are for US made knives like the Leek and Scallion in 12C28N, and you're paying as much as you used to pay for 8Cr knives and only getting 3Cr instead. For years apparently, Kershaw had no trouble making a profit off $20 knives in 8Cr13 knives, so did that suddenly change this year?

 

[nwmetalbug]

They make great stuff for everyone starting with 3cr all the way to m390. You might not like the 3cr but im guessing the big box stores and the people that buy from them like them just fine. Pick the one you like and enjoy it and dont tell other people what they should like.

 

[o4tg]

Kershaw / ZT makes knives for the entire gamut of end users. Not just the elite users. What is wrong with that??

Do the same brainiacs here complain to Chevy that mfg crap cars too??

Bunch of guys here with a Masters in Business from USC huh??

Kershaw offering 3CR would be like Chevy offering a Cruze with a carbureted 3 cylinder that got 8mpg, made 45hp, and required an oil change every 300 miles, yet cost the same as the rest of their line up.

No matter how you justify it sales wise, it's a company known for quality lowering their standards to make a quick buck off an inferior product. 3CR has no place in a pocket knife, no matter what reason. Go look at the $5 Chinese knife segment. Most of them even use at least 7CR. How bad is it when Schrade is offering a superior product for cheaper? Yet it seems every week a new 3CR Kershaw comes out.

 

[jeffsenpai]

Just disassembled and removed the torsion bar. This knife has a detent & works beautifully as a non-assisted flipper!

 

[Rival1314]

No matter how you justify it sales wise, it's a company known for quality lowering their standards to make a quick buck off an inferior product. 3CR has no place in a pocket knife, no matter what reason. Go look at the $5 Chinese knife segment. Most of them even use at least 7CR. How bad is it when Schrade is offering a superior product for cheaper? Yet it seems every week a new 3CR Kershaw comes out.

You really seem to have a hard on to knock Kershaw for "making a buck" and "lowering their standards"......being an exclusive, do you think perhaps the company that ordered the exclusive knows how their customer base spends their money? Perhaps the last 40 years has shown Kershaw a thing or two about what really sells? Do you honestly feel that the average joe that buys a $20 knife whether its a Kershaw, s&w, or mtech even knows anything about steel composition (or even cares)? This is obviously an entry level offering for the general public (non-knife nuts), being a part of a forum community really excludes you from that subset as you are a dozen times more knowledgeable than they are. And I think that offerings like the Ruby, Camber, Strobe, and the entire ZT line shows KAI is still in the quality manufacturing game. Dont get butt hurt because a company **Gasp** manufactures products that have mass appeal. We get it, this knife isnt for you....perhaps there is a guy (or girl) out there who gets one in their stocking this year and it could be the catalyst for them to become a future knife nut.

And "no matter how you justify it"?? They are a for profit mass manufacturing company, so there is no need to justify anything if sells....just look at all the useless products on the market simply because they sell.....

 

[rsngfrce]

Well, first off all, I respect EVERYONE'S opinion, but personally I have to say I am disappointed to hear that Kershaw is increasing their use of 3Cr, because now that
Murphenstein44 has corrected me, I have to agree somewhat with DShiflet, but that is just MY opinion. M-Techs exist for a reason, so do Kershaws....