A Spyderco Pikal?

SNarc, I'll defer to your experience as to what's more appropriate, but for me I'd prefer some increase in strength, especially as the lock's been downgraded from compression to (ugh) ball bearing.

BTW--what were your thoughts on the latest proto? I've seen Trace's posts about it but nothing of your impressions.
 
Speed is life.

If Sal didn't think the linerless would be MBC quality, this wouldn't be a question. At 3.25" go with the linerless.
 
If Sal thinks a liner is unnecessary for the REV (still pitching that name...) then it's unnecessary.

The force would be focused on the stop pin, not the lock, so a beefy stop pin seems more important than liners.

REVs (sorry) and speed are interrelated...

VOOM!
 
Hello All

Been keeping my eyes on this one and for whatever my 0.02 is worth, if it's noticably faster w/o the liners that's the route I'd vote for. In this application speed is a very valuable trait.

Sal designs a solid product and if he feels it's good without the additional hardware that's plenty good enough for me.

Can hardly wait for this unit ! ! !

SNarc, thanks again for this project. The REM DVD has been ordered from Dustin and I can't wait until it arrives.

And of course thx to Trace

Sal, SNarc and Trace all working together the mind boggles :D
 
I haven't commented on this thread yet, but the more I hear about this type of MBC the more interested I am in this folder.

I think without liners is definately the way to go. Speed is very important and given that it is a ball bearing lock, which is a very strong lock, I don't think liners are really needed for the application.

But then again, I'm no expert and I haven't seen the proto. I think what it comes down to is if Snarc thinks the knife is functional and the best it can be for the application without the liners. If liners are needed for increased strength, I'm all for them.

But if the folder is still going to be functional without liners and faster I can't see a reason to go with the liners just to get unneeded strength ratings and a little more heft. Just my opinion.

-Bryan
 
eda-koppo this latest version only differs from the previous one in that the current version is sans liners and has the ball bearing lock.

Now one thing I will say is that this ball bearing lock is not what you guys are envisioning with the other Spydie models. Same concept, different application.

I really like it personally and wouldn't have a problem forgoing liners, but there again I'm not an engineer. I can only tell you how it runs and this one again is noticeably quicker than the first proto. Because it's thinner it's also lighter and rides in the pocket less noticeably. It's actually lighter than a Ti Kershaw Talon which of course is my benchmark standard for comparison.

I have to say that the Spyderco is going to exceed the Talon in every way, except for the waving issue.
 
Another observation.

I haven't figured out why yet but this proto is the fastest inertia opening knife I think I've seen. I mean it won't open unless you want it to but this thing frickin' flies open with just a little flick. The action is outstanding. Damn near feels like an expensive custom.
 
I think for an SD EDC blade quicker is better. I have strong knives. Since I can't carry a fixed blade I'd like the pikal to be fast into action.
 
SNarc or anyone, how does the balance feel with and without liners? Where on the knife is the point of balance in both instances?

For me the balance and "feel" issue would be the most important one and if lock strength is not a factor this should be considerdered. Without handling either version I guess I would still prefer liners just because of added strength and thickness.

The liner decision will not change my decision to buy in any case.
 
The liner version is definitely handle heavy. Not grossly so at all so don't misread that. I don't have it in hand so I can't compare the two side by side, but I remember when I got the first proto my first thoughts were how solid it felt. It felt confidence inspiring.

When I got this one in hand my first thoughts were "Damn that moves!"

I'm sitting here finger diddling the second one as I write this and the more I play with it, for what it's designed for, the more I like the feel in motion of the linerless version.

Sorry to be confounding...just going kinda' stream of consciousness with this.
 
Personally, I would prefer the linerless version. Feel in the hand, and speed are very important things in any MBC knife. However, liners will make it more acceptable to a larger crowd, who maybe think of purely utility uses for this knife. So my take on it is; MBC crowd/Spyderknuts will generally prefer linerless, but liners could very well make more sales and thus increase the longevity of the model.

Either way I'll buy one, but I won't be too disappointed with liners.

Wouter
 
SouthNarc said:
I have to say that the Spyderco is going to exceed the Talon in every way, except for the waving issue.

That brings up an interesting point. With the pending availibility of a "waved" Endura, if the pikal folder proves successful, what's the possibility of coming out with a "waved" pikal? Of course not having seen the knife I don't know if this would be practicle or desirable; just throwing the idea out there.
 
I would prefer linerless. Give me speed and carryability any day. And to me, if it is strong enough it is strong enough. Just like a F1 car, something light can also be very strong. Even if it doesn't feel like it.

JD
 
At this moment, I'm wearing an olive-drab, waved Delica. No liners, no qualms. If Mr. Glesser, Mr. Rinaldi, and Snarc okay this new design, I don't care what it's made of, or what it's called. I only care about when I can get one.
 
Mr Blonde said:
However, liners will make it more acceptable to a larger crowd, who maybe think of purely utility uses for this knife.

Lost Jaguar said:
If Mr. Glesser, Mr. Rinaldi, and Snarc okay this new design, I don't care what it's made of, or what it's called. I only care about when I can get one.

I admit I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but keep in mind that this is a defensive piece. God forbid it has to be used for its designed purpose, it needs to be able to put up with pretty awesome forces. In the adrenaline-induced haze of a life-threatening defensive situation, your accuracy will suffer, and you may find yourself torquing this thing out hard. So, to address Mr Blonde's point, I don't think it's only utility guys who will ask about liners. Defensive-use guys do want speed, but they also know the knife could end up being torqued pretty good.

For Lost Jaguar, without even seeing the knife, I have a strong feeling that Trace's and Snarc's design will be very sound. But having a good overall design isn't the same thing as knowing the breaking point of a particular executed piece. Unless Trace and Southnarc have been given prototypes by Sal, and told "test these to the limits of what you think is reasonable, and don't worry if you destroy them", then they really don't know what the breaking point is. Don't know if that's happened yet -- right now, it might be that Sal is the only one who knows the breaking point. Sal knows his stuff cold, but more eyes are better.

That said, I have no doubt that it's possible to construct a linerless 3.25" defensive knife that can do the job. And if anyone can do it, it's these guys. But some of the replies are looking a little too much like blind faith. For my part, I plan to get one of these things as early as I can, and I will test it hard to within reasonable limits of this type of piece, and so will many other folks. Asking Sal, Trace, and Southnarc to go back, and make doubley sure the thing isn't going to crack apart in reasonable-but-hard testing isn't an insult to any of them; it's just making sure we're not sacrificing too much robustness.

Trace and Southnarc, have you hard-tested -- torquing a knife that's wedged in something, say -- any of the prototypes you've examined? If you say "yes", I'm happy.

Joe
 
Good points by Mr. Talmadge. I wonder if skeletonized liners à la Chinook II would be the perfect solution providing both handling and extreme strength.
 
All good info, which is what we need. Remember, we're making this for you.

We can make them with liners, that's the way Snarc was leaning. We'd skeletonize the liners anyway (no more than necessary, no less than perfect.)

If some don't care if it has liners and some do care, and the some that don't care will take them with liners, logic dictates liners. Did I say that :rolleyes:

Snarc 'n Trace are the final word. :p

sal

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