A Spyderco Pikal?

Hi again.

Southnarc, got the DVD, great stuff, very efficient, thanx much.

Kinda like the "Wing Chun" of MBC.

What about clips?

left/right tip up seems like the most effective method for this design.

stamped steel, wire, deep pocket, very deep pocket?

Lanyard hole desired or necessary?

Optimum handle nmaterial?

sal
 
Hi Sal,

We've all been appreciating your interest in our little "community" :)

As for the clips - Yup...tip up. If you could also provide for left or right handers (I'm left handed and Southnarc is right)........deep and mid pocket would probably cover most requirements for my part.

As for material.............

Southnarc and I are mindful that the average Military guy or LEO probably don't earn much money.

So quality materials at an affordable price needs to be balanced.

Having a "reasonably" priced knife would also ensure that the client would ACTUALLY use the knife, rather than end up in some showcase collection because it is "too good" to be used.

Thanks again for spending time with us

Ray Floro
 
Hey Sal glad you liked the material.

Ray, Trace and I were yakking a bit and one thing we discussed was having two sets of holes on each side of the scales.

One set would would orient the clip right at the butt for those who wanted to have it deeply concealed and the other set of holes would be just a higher and would allow a portion of the butt to protrude from the pocket line for those who were more concerned with a positive grip and quicker access. This would make the ride more adjustable for the end user. Personally I think a wire clip would be fine.

As far as handle material goes I think the grippiest stuff I've seen you guys do is G10. I'd like to see it textured a bit more kinda' like Bud Nealy does his "waffle pattern" on his scales. A nice gray like on the old Matraiarch would be a good benign color that didn't scream tactical and blends well with blue jeans and khaki pants.

Lanyard hole for this knife IMO is extraneous.

As Ray noted we're well aware of cost issues vis-a-vis materials and our objective is to gewt these out to the end users.
 
The portion of the scales which is "pinch-gripped" between the thumb and index finger for the draw, should have positive "traction" (checkering, angled serrations/grooves, pock-marking, etc.) for the direction of pulling the knife out. This could serve to slightly "hook" the fingertips, preventing slippage. ;)

If you've seen Southnarc draw the Kershaw Talon on the DVD, you have an idea of the purchase on the handle at the onset of the draw.

Lee
 
Interresting Ideas! I was thinking, wouldit be posible to make an intergrall compresion lock with ss on the lock side and G10 on the other? It would make for a good combination of strenght and grip I think.

JD
 
On clips: The wire clips seem to be kind of a touchy subject with some (complaints about them not being strong enough, etc) but I actually wanted to say that I really like them. I have had no problems with the durability, and also tend to prefer the lower profile (less noticeable on the outside of your pocket, less likely to scrape walls, cars, etc that you pass close to). I also feel that the Spydies I own with wire clips (Dodo, Salsa, Native III...) seem like they are a usually a bit faster on the draw than the stamped steel clips, possibly because the wire clips (if adjusted properly) cause less friction against the pocket edge than the bigger clips do. (less surface area contacting the pocket = less drag)

I really like the look and indexing holes on the Lil' Temp and ATR clips, but the tradeoff is that they seem to eat up the edges of my pockets quite a bit more than the wire clips do, and are not quite as quick to deploy.

Overall, I would have to favor the wire clips...Just my $.02.
 
Personally, I like the stamped clips more than the wire ones. They just feel more secure and of higher quality. The clip on th D'Allara (now removed) felt flimsy, and gave me the impression that I could bend it right off. I do see your point about less pocket wear and being more discrete, but I think that Spyderco should go with a more rugged clip. I really like the clip on my Lil' Temperance and hope that it is used on this knife. Clip orientation should be reversible tip up.

To cater to all price ranges I think it should be a less expensive steel than CPM S30V, preferably VG-10. Also, a G-10 handle would be nice. For a lock, I would go with either a Ball Lock or Compression lock.

Hopin' that this project gets off the ground, thanks Sal.
 
The stamped clips have been eating my cars' leather-wrapped steering wheels if I get in the cars quickly. I haven't noticed the same trauma with my Dodo. Also I think the wire clips are less obvious.

My CII is the easiest Spydie to draw (I may sand the G10 on my Dodo a bit) but it also has a tiny space between the G10 and the clip surface that causes it to make noise sometimes when the knife is loose in my pocket. If I bend the clip to eliminate the tiny gap, it may no longer be the easiest to draw.
:confused:
My $0.02.
 
Clip: my vote is for the stamped clip. Reason: I run mine w/ 3m grip tape for a more positive draw. I really like S'narcs idea about having multiple "ride" positions for the clip.

As well, I have zero use for the lanayard hole. There may be folks who use them, but I'm not one of them.

Grip: G10, ideally a neutral color--grey or dark blue. No olive drab, please. Black would be ok, if grey or navy is not an option.
A grooved, or textured g-10 would be even better!

Other options: I know all of the "extras" add cost to the project, but grooves on the butt of the handle (along the edge of the scales) might be nice as well for folks who "cap" with the thumb. Also, similar grooves alond the back of the blade at the "hole-hump" and handle scales.

Thanks for listening, Sal!
 
Would it cost less if it were made with AUS-8 in the Taipei shop? With G10 scales and a nested Compression Lock, it'd be the leaner meaner cousin of the Salsa.

Would it work better if there were two different sized models of the knife? One for folks who want a longer blade and one for folks who want or legally require a smaller blade?
 
Granted the Taipei shop would probably be cheaper.............but I couldn't handle anything not made in the USA.........gotta be made in the USA
 
For the USA, then, would this model be a good choice for Spyderco's first experiments with D2? D2 should be less expensive than S30V, but have better edge retention (for those who choose to use their pakal blade for EDC uses, but don't keep up with their sharpening) at the expense of being a bear to sharpen. Of course, to make it sharpen more easily, the blade could be made thinner than most other Spyderco blades (which should also enhance cutting ability at the expense of overall strength. Shouldn't be a problem as the knife is meant to stop bad guys; not replace a pneumatic hammer).

To have the knife be affordable and do everything we want, there will likely have to be tradeoffs.
 
OK Guys. I need more input on:

clips

handle materials

Blade Steel

MSRP desired.

We can make it in Golden, use S30V, G10, steel liners, hi tech lock like the ball bearing lock or the Compression lock. Lives will end up being (MSRP) $170 - $220, trainers in GIN-1 would end up $20 - $25 less.

We can make it in Seki, VG-10, stainless handles (drilled) with stainless integral compression lock, (MSRP) $165 - $175. or G-0 steel liners, ball bearing lock, MSRP about the same. Trainers in GIN-1, about $10 - $15 less

We can make it in Taiwan, ATS-34, CNC textured aluminum, nested compression lock (MSRP) $100 - $120, trainers in 420 about $10 - $15
less.

We can make it in China under the "byrd" label, AUS-8 (Chinese), framelock (not MBC) for under $50 (MSRP).

Quality would be very good in Golden, good to very good in Seki. Good in Taiwan, acceptable in China.

Thom, CATRA testing at Spyderco indicates that S30V consistently exhibits superior edge retension to D-2. As you said, D-2 would be a few dollars cost savings.

sal

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"We are all teachers and we are all students"
 
Sal, I would very much like to see it from Golden. Preferably with a stamped clip so those of us that want it can fit it with grip tape. Also I feel the need to reiterate how much I would like to see the Spyderhole placed in a similar fashion as on the Bob Lum Tanto folder.
For handle materials G10 would be swell. Should be textured to improve grip.
The lock should be whatever can be flicked open, has a strong enough detent to stop it from opening in the pocket while carried tip-up, but not so strong you can't flick it open. If both the Ball-lock and the Compression Lock can provide those features, then chose which ever is the least likely to suffer a mechanical failure and is least complex. The simpler, the better.
Steel or Ti liners should be full. Not halfway down the handle, but full.
Plain edge preferably.
That would about do it for me.
 
For me, as an entirely selfish purchase, I'd want:

reversible wire clip for ambidextrous tip-up deep-pocket carry
S30V blade steel
G10 liners
MBC-rated nested Compression Lock

For a affordable purchase, I'd want to change the steel to AUS-8 or ATS-34 and the site manufacture to Taiwan.

I'd want the folder to be named something profound such as "Oracion" (which means "prayer" if I was told correctly) or completely silly such as "Li'l Bubster".
 
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