A Spyderco Pikal?

I would go with US made, if possible. I think most people would consider D2 to be acceptable in order to keep costs down. ;) Heck, I'd be fine with some other good steel, if that's what it takes for it to be made at Golden.

I am partial to G10 for the scales over metal surfaces.

Seki made with G10 and VG-10 is fine, too.

Regardless, I'm still in for at least one live and one trainer no matter what finished product.

Thank you Sal. :cool:
 
I'm partial to Golden, too, with the specs you gave Sal.

The Seki option would be fine. Frankly, since this is a defensive piece, ATS-34 & the Taiwan specs would be fine. It's the design that's the star of the show here, it's not going to need the best steel in the world to be one of the finest defensive pieces in the world. That said, I'd still strongly prefer to pay more and go the Golden route. Might as well mate that design with the highest-end materials and manufacture.

Joe
 
I guess the main thing to figure out first is what you guys are willing to pay for it. Unless you already have a Talon and are content with it, this will be the only game in town as far as a purpose driven pikal folder designed that way from the ground up. Once ya'll figure out a price point I guess from there it's just a matter of getting the best bang for the buck.

Let's hear some numbers.
 
My preference would be US made, but Seki would be a close second. Don't have a problem with Taiwan and think it would probably be adequate. Would rather not have it made in China, for more reasons than one.
As far as materials, I'm partial to G-10 for the handle. Any decent blade steel should do.
 
Golder or Seki would both be good. VG10, 30V and D2 are all fine. I would prefer a wire clip. MSRP < $190. Like Joe sayed, with this knife the disign is king!

JD
 
Sal,

Obviously when one gets around to talking price, the concept begins to take on a whole new life. It is one thing for forum members to express a laundry list of things that they would like to see in a design, it is quite another having them part with their hard earned cash in order to purchase said design. In short, talking money is where the rubber hits the road. Given past negative experiences you have had with forum knives, and hopefully positive experiences with consumer-driven designs like the karambit and spyderfly, this is not news to you.

A "street price" conversion to compare against a listed MSRP may therefore be beneficial. Using essentially a 62% multiplier for online vendors such as New Graham, and a 58% multilpier for e-bay listings, one finds the following average corresponding prices as listed by you in a previous posting:

Co. of Origin MSRP Online Retailer e-bay

US $195 $121 $113
Seki $170 $105 $ 99

I will stop here, as I doubt that those most interested in this project would be as interested in the other manufacturers (plus, it ain't like this is rocket science ;)).

Some questions: Would forum members be willing to place a deposit of, say 25% of the MSRP, to see that their design comes to fruition? Would that then limit the depositor to having to pay the full MSRP for the piece upon completion, or would there be some sort of voucher available? Would this help to ensure that the design is brought to life?

Personally, I would love to see the concept become a reality.

I like the G-10 scales. VG-10 seems to be a very fine steel and would make an excellent choice. MBC rated lock seems to be a requisite (compression, frame, ball, whatever it takes). Clip could be either type as far as I'm concerned. In summary, your designs, Mr. Glesser, are top notch, and I readily bow to your superior knowledge and experience in this field.

I would make one final recommendation, however. It seems that a folding knife whose design function is (at least implicitly) one of self defense should be in the 3.5-4" range. This seems to me to best fit into the constraints of law and practicality. I know that some designs have been kept around or even under 3"--ie. the Yojimbo, and the new version of the Lil' T--to make them acceptable by the various legal requirements imposed on individuals from state to state, or even county to county. While I understand the concept that this allows for a much broader potential buying pool, I would caution that in overbalancing the ratio toward the lawful carry side of the equation, and less toward the practicality, one risks losing potential buyers, and thereby the pool shrinks either way. After all, the Endura is no piker when it comes to size or sales.

I look forward to any thoughts you or my fellow formites may have on this design project.

Respectfully submitted,
Rick
 
I'd prefer either Golden or Seki manufacturing and G10 over steel scales. I didn't like the feel of the ATR's scales at all. As for lock style, since the compression has been around longer than the ball, I think it is a more stable platform.
 
I'd like to put in a vote for either Golden or Seki, with no preference between the two.

Regarding the handle, I would be most interested in G-10 scales with a nested compression lock (like the ParaMilitary) or G-10 scales over a regular compression lock (like the Gunting).

For a knife such as this, blade steel is a non-issue in my book.

I'm in favor of whatever clip type offers the most versatility in terms of carry options.

Sorry that all sounds so wishy-washy, but the bottom line is that I'm pretty open on this project.

I would like to say, however, that I feel strongly that the compression lock should be used rather than the ball bearing lock. The compression lock is a simpler mechanism and when it comes to a knife like this, I'd like to follow the KISS principle.

For MSRP, I'd prefer something under $200, but I could go higher. I understand that any new product requires new tooling, research, etc, but if the Gunting can be made for MSRP $170, is there any particular reason why the pikal would cost up to $220?
 
For those of us who are primarily "Pikal" users, the difference in price between Golden and Seki make little difference (IMO), so I'd opt for the best build quality you could produce around $200. Since this knife will end up a the EDC primary carry, it would behoove you to produce one with good internals and steel.

The Spyderco line has a large range of price points already covered. If this knife is introduced, it could be the first high-quality Pikal folder on the market, and grab the lion's share of the interested users (a good #, as evidenced by the response in this thread).

I'll be in line for one, and a trainer as well. Please make it happen.

Lee ;)
 
Hey Ricky, our machine shop foreman, Roque (who, like my self, has a background in aerospace manufacture), says, "building Spyderco knives isn't rocket science, it's much harder".

Also, your calcualtions on price might be a little misleading. One dealer will not get all of the production and so prices will vary. It will more than likely be limited production numbers so they will not be easily found on ebay for low prices.

I would prefer not to build a "lower price" collector piece like many of the knives produced today. If your life might depend on a knife, there is a great deal of R&D plus constant testing to ensure that reliablility. Reliability is not an accident.

Hi Think, I just gave a range on costs. These vary depending on the mfg time. Guntings would be more expensive to mfr if we nest the liners. If we go full liners on the model (easier to reach MBC with full liners), I'd want to reduce the thickness of the G-10 to keep the model thinner. This requires thinning the G-10, again, additional labor.


Southnarc's "Disciple" design seems to have a blade about 3.5" - 3.75". We'll use that to begin the folder design.

sal
 
Sal,

Sorry I was unlcear as to my meaning with regard to "rocket science". I was only saying that applying the formula for what an ELU may expect to pay for the piece wasn't rocket science. For that matter, as you pointed out, it may not be even in the ballpark...As a fan of your company's work, I don't doubt that a great deal of engineering expertice is required, that's why I wouldn't presume to suggest which type of lock to use. No offense was intended.

I'm pleased to read that the template idea involves G-10 and a larger-sized blade. Hell, for that matter I'm pleased that a template idea of any kind is in the works. My ramblings about some sort of voucher deposit are illustrative of my desire to see this project succeed. If the number of postings on this particular topic is indicative of the type of support for the project, I'm confident it will succeed.

Rick
 
Sal Glesser said:
Hi Think, I just gave a range on costs. These vary depending on the mfg time. Guntings would be more expensive to mfr if we nest the liners. If we go full liners on the model (easier to reach MBC with full liners), I'd want to reduce the thickness of the G-10 to keep the model thinner. This requires thinning the G-10, again, additional labor.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info, Sal.
I have a feeling that if this project comes to production, the knife world will be pleasantly surprised.
 
Clips:
Stamped (like the Lil' Temp) is my favorite clip - because it looks different and doesn't necessarily scream KNIFE and because of the index holes (Not sure I'll need that on this knife).

I saw your Lil' Temp "Light" proto at blade. As I recall it combined a wire clip with a divot for indexing. I would be interested to know how that would work. Also like the deep carry of the slipjoint you made for the UK pen knife. But, don't know how well this thing would draw from that position. As someone else mentioned, it would be nice if we somehow had a choice (maybe order a clip that was bent differenty separately?)

Handle Materials:
G10. Spyderco has the best G10 I've ever felt. Give me an option for Blue or Black or Green or just something different.

Blade Steel:
S30V or VG-10

MSRP:
This will be an important piece to me. Something I may have to depend on. I want a good lock (Compression) and I'm willing to pay for it to be done right. I think <$200 MSRP would be a good price point. I will want a trainer if I can get it.

Golden would be best - but Seki would be OK. I would want it MBC.

Thanks
 
Sal Glesser said:
Reliability is not an accident.

sal
Click to expand...

Golden words. I have no problem paying for the right tool.

Spyderco can find the balance between reliability, purpose, and price point.
 
I've been watching this thread and I like where it's going. I prefer the stamped clips over any other type of clip. G-10 and quality steel are a necessity. That said, I will take one and a trainer, when they become available. I'd even pay a percentage down to reserve the knife as well. Good thread, great ideas, and a perfect open mind toward the end user Mr. Glesser.
Thank you, and I look forward to seeing the production model.
 
I love this thread, it is so great that sal takes such an intrest in the customer,as for the knife i already have the diciple and a folder designed from this is just going to be awsome, i think a stamped clip g10 with steel liners and an s30v blade would be perfect

-Anthony
 
How about alternating G10 and Micarta? That way you can have an attractive look to it so it detracts from the weapon aspect? Have the area around the clip micarta so it won't thrash up dress pants. That way you can carry it full time?
 
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