A2 Steel Update

I'm not sure how accurate what everyone thinks they know about steel is. I went to the knife steel nerds website and collected relevant data as follows:
steel RC Catra mm toughness
1095 62 316 10
1084 60.5 - 25
O1 61 283 15
A2 61.5 339 15
52100 61 328 28
AEB-L 61 360 37
S30V 60 575 5
He didn't have 4034. But AEB-L is very close:
AEB-L 4034
C 0.67% 0.46%
Cr 13% 13.5%
So 4034 is probably twice as tough as O1 and A2 and tougher than 52100. 4034 edge retention is probably same as A2, which isn't saying much. All these steels without Vanadium have meh edge holding. But if they have V, unless powdered (like 3V) they have low toughness.
I included S30V to show a high edge holding number.
According to this data, 4034 would be the best steel for a large knife. This obviously contradicts common opinion.
I haven't mentioned that 4034 C and Cr are specifically calibrated for highest sharpness capability. I suppose this causes the high polishability and grindability too. Causing low cost as a side effect.
3 conclusions:
1. I trust LT knows his a_s from a hole in the ground. 2. I intend to get a Laredo in 4034. 3. CS has a (manageable) marketing problem to look forward to.
Fire away.
 
Mark Spark said:
I'm not sure how accurate what everyone thinks they know about steel is. I went to the knife steel nerds website and collected relevant data as follows:
steel RC Catra mm toughness
1095 62 316 10
1084 60.5 - 25
O1 61 283 15
A2 61.5 339 15
52100 61 328 28
AEB-L 61 360 37
S30V 60 575 5
He didn't have 4034. But AEB-L is very close:
AEB-L 4034
C 0.67% 0.46%
Cr 13% 13.5%
So 4034 is probably twice as tough as O1 and A2 and tougher than 52100. 4034 edge retention is probably same as A2, which isn't saying much. All these steels without Vanadium have meh edge holding. But if they have V, unless powdered (like 3V) they have low toughness.
I included S30V to show a high edge holding number.
According to this data, 4034 would be the best steel for a large knife. This obviously contradicts common opinion.
I haven't mentioned that 4034 C and Cr are specifically calibrated for highest sharpness capability. I suppose this causes the high polishability and grindability too. Causing low cost as a side effect.
3 conclusions:
1. I trust LT knows his a_s from a hole in the ground. 2. I intend to get a Laredo in 4034. 3. CS has a (manageable) marketing problem to look forward to.
Fire away.
Click to expand...

I would be surprised if 4034 with 0.46%C could get near 60HRC or have abrasive wear resistance approaching A2, but that's not necessarily a bad thing for a large chopper.
 
LuckyC said:
I would be surprised if 4034 with 0.46%C could get near 60HRC or have abrasive wear resistance approaching A2, but that's not necessarily a bad thing for a large chopper.
Click to expand...
Yes, in an article discussing the history of AEB-L, he implies 4034 can get to about 59 HRC max. Because of its high toughness, they might run it near the max.
 
BTW, the VG10 in San Mai has very good edge holding at 475 mm Catra, but toughness is very low at ~6 ft-lbs. The cladding keeps it from breaking, but not from chipping. How is it ok to use that in a large chopper, but not a high toughness, low edge-holding steel? 3V of course is ideal. But I'd rather have 4034 than vg10. Then again, don't try sharpening 3V without diamond abrasives.
 
Tenbeers said:
I'd second the motion for 1095.
It's not considered a high-end steel but Rowen is turning out some tough knives with it.
Buck seems to be doing well with 5160.

I'm not trying to cross promote Buck or Esee but if they're able to produce well made knives and sheaths at reasonable prices it may be time to try a U.S manufacturer again.The original Carbon V models were made in the states by Camillus.
A well heat treated 1095 or 5160 has to be a better alternative than what is being considered.

Manufacturing in the U.S may mean lower profit percentages but would probably pose less of a risk to the brand's reputation.
Click to expand...
Indeed. It’s no 3V, but simply put, it works. If ESEE and Becker can make kickass knives out of it, I don’t doubt a 1095 Trailmaster can shine as well. Of course, we can only make suggestions. Time will tell if we’ll really end up with 4034.
 
Lol don’t compare AEBL with 4034 dude...
Also 0.67%(aebl) carbon and 0.42%(4034) is a 59.5% difference.
Remember the amount of carbon % is by weight. Carbon has way less density so the if you convert to the amount of molecules, 0.25% is a fk ton.
When it comes to chemical element you can’t look at the absolute value, you have to look at the relative value.

“Well it’s only 0.25% less carbon, so it must be similar to aebl...” #facepalm
 
I love AEBL. But I've used it when properly heat treated by custom makers.

I love 52100, cpm3v, 10xx, INFI, A2, 1095, 15n20, L6, 5160, 6150 (50HF from Poland) I've used cpm154, Ats34, D2, Vg10, Vg1, aus8a, 4116 Krupp, 12c27 Sandvik Swedish, and too many other stainless steels to name. The difference I've used them all... even Buck's 420HC is a fine steel, for what it is. Sharpens very easy, cuts what I need. Easy to re-sharpen.



I'll need to see toughness and edge retention specs on 4034 before I form an opinion about how great or not it is. Or...I'm even good with a lot of anecdotal evidence from use.

Heck even my own anecdotal evidence pleases me.


You want me to accept a steel, I'd like to see some performance data.
Or
Real use reviews.

I've never heard of, or seen any review of anyone using it.


I will say, that much of what everyone thinks they k on about steel is wrong.

People think 1095 is uber tough, that high carbon equates to super tough....

That no stainless can be as tough, or hold an edge better than plain high carbon steel....etc etc (enter your favorite steel "cliche knowledge" here).

Larrin sure has helped add to the knowledge level.

A whole lot of steel myths seem to evaporate after reading the science.
 
Last edited:
Mark Spark said:
I'm not sure how accurate what everyone thinks they know about steel is. I went to the knife steel nerds website and collected relevant data as follows:
steel RC Catra mm toughness
1095 62 316 10
1084 60.5 - 25
O1 61 283 15
A2 61.5 339 15
52100 61 328 28
AEB-L 61 360 37
S30V 60 575 5
He didn't have 4034. But AEB-L is very close:
AEB-L 4034
C 0.67% 0.46%
Cr 13% 13.5%
So 4034 is probably twice as tough as O1 and A2 and tougher than 52100. 4034 edge retention is probably same as A2, which isn't saying much. All these steels without Vanadium have meh edge holding. But if they have V, unless powdered (like 3V) they have low toughness.
I included S30V to show a high edge holding number.
According to this data, 4034 would be the best steel for a large knife. This obviously contradicts common opinion.
I haven't mentioned that 4034 C and Cr are specifically calibrated for highest sharpness capability. I suppose this causes the high polishability and grindability too. Causing low cost as a side effect.
3 conclusions:
1. I trust LT knows his a_s from a hole in the ground. 2. I intend to get a Laredo in 4034. 3. CS has a (manageable) marketing problem to look forward to.
Fire away.
Click to expand...
:rolleyes: I believe you're a tad confused about the metallurgy here , but looking forward to your 4034 Laredo review ! :cool::thumbsup:
 
Bigfattyt said:
I love AEBL. But I've used it when properly heat treated by custom makers.

I love 52100, cpm3v, 10xx, INFI, A2, 1095, 15n20, L6, 5160, 6150 (50HF from Poland) I've used cpm154, Ats34, D2, Vg10, Vg1, aus8a, 4116 Krupp, 12c27 Sandvik Swedish, and too many other stainless steels to name. The difference I've used them all... even Buck's 420HC is a fine steel, for what it is. Sharpens very easy, cuts what I need. Easy to re-sharpen.



I'll need to see toughness and edge retention specs on 4034 before I form an opinion about how great or not it is. Or...I'm even good with a lot of anecdotal evidence from use.

Heck even my own anecdotal evidence pleases me.


You want me to accept a steel, I'd like to see some performance data.
Or
Real use reviews.

I've never heard of, or seen any review of anyone using it.


I will say, that much of what everyone thinks they k on about steel is wrong.

People think 1095 is uber tough, that high carbon equates to super tough....

That no stainless can be as tough, or hold an edge better than plain high carbon steel....etc etc (enter your favorite steel "cliche knowledge" here).

Larrin sure has helped add to the knowledge level.

A whole lot of steel myths seem to evaporate after reading the science.
Click to expand...
I love 5160 too. Got a couple of khukris in that steel. Really tough. 5160 CS knives sound like a good deal too.
 
Mark Spark said:
I'm not sure how accurate what everyone thinks they know about steel is. I went to the knife steel nerds website and collected relevant data as follows:
steel RC Catra mm toughness
1095 62 316 10
1084 60.5 - 25
O1 61 283 15
A2 61.5 339 15
52100 61 328 28
AEB-L 61 360 37
S30V 60 575 5
He didn't have 4034. But AEB-L is very close:
AEB-L 4034
C 0.67% 0.46%
Cr 13% 13.5%
So 4034 is probably twice as tough as O1 and A2 and tougher than 52100. 4034 edge retention is probably same as A2, which isn't saying much. All these steels without Vanadium have meh edge holding. But if they have V, unless powdered (like 3V) they have low toughness.
I included S30V to show a high edge holding number.
According to this data, 4034 would be the best steel for a large knife. This obviously contradicts common opinion.
I haven't mentioned that 4034 C and Cr are specifically calibrated for highest sharpness capability. I suppose this causes the high polishability and grindability too. Causing low cost as a side effect.
3 conclusions:
1. I trust LT knows his a_s from a hole in the ground. 2. I intend to get a Laredo in 4034. 3. CS has a (manageable) marketing problem to look forward to.
Fire away.
Click to expand...
Be my guest and please let us know how it goes. :D

Advice:
Keep sharpening stone at hand because you'll possibly need it as soon as you get it out of sheath. And after each few strikes...

Prepare safety goggles and some thick leather gloves so you don't get hit by shrapnel when this thing starts to break.

Also keep a hammer at hand so you can hammer it back straight in case it starts to warp.
 
Just curious. Never broke a knife before so I gotta ask. How do knives break exactly? I always thought it would just break in half and that’s it. Can a knife “shatter” like glass spraying shrapnel everywhere?
 
DangerZone98 said:
Just curious. Never broke a knife before so I gotta ask. How do knives break exactly? I always thought it would just break in half and that’s it. Can a knife “shatter” like glass spraying shrapnel everywhere?
Click to expand...


This one caused internal injuries that put the guy in the hospital for a spell. Cheap steels can be costly.

n2s
 
DangerZone98 said:
Just curious. Never broke a knife before so I gotta ask. How do knives break exactly? I always thought it would just break in half and that’s it. Can a knife “shatter” like glass spraying shrapnel everywhere?
Click to expand...
I ruined many knives.

Soft flea market stainless will usually suffer from rolls, bends and won't hold an edge worth a crap.
In rare occassions they run them at high HRC and edge holding is decent, but then it chips and breaks. It often breaks in several pieces. And if you use it to chop - chips will sometimes fly around instead of staying in wood.

Carbon steel Mora also broke with 2 fragments when I tried to pry open paint can with it.

My cousin's Ka-Bar USMC broke at the tang when I used it to chop...

It depends on steel, geometry, heat treatment and what you're doing with it. But shrapnels and fragments do happen and it can injure you. At least eye goggles are a must. I personally use safety gear each time I do stupid stuff with my knives.
 
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