A2 Steel Update

"I suggest reading the article at this link:
http://www.nordsmithknives.com/blog...perfect-stainless-steel-for-an-outdoors-knife
It basically says AEB-L beats the snot out of 52100 on all measures important to knives including wear resistance. As we know, 52100 beats the snot out of O1 and A2. So there's a lot of room for 4034, which is similar to AEB-L, to be not just as good as, but better than A2.
I'll bet there's no cost difference in material between 4034 and AEB-L. If 4034 is cheaper to sell its probably because it's easier to work.
Steel snobbery is a powerful force. Just because 4034 is low cost doesn't mean it's low performance. Have some faith in CS."

Ok, again. 4034 is not similar to or equal to AEBL ( or 13C27) in composition or performance. The only thing similar about them is they are classified as stainless. Other than that have faith in Cold Steel all you want. I've been a customer since the late 80's or early 90's and I have always supported the company. That does not mean 4034 is a good idea just because Lynn wants to sell knives using that steel. 4034 is at best a mediocre low end inexpensive material for producing knives that should fine blank easily and polish up great. All low carbon steels are by nature tough. It takes more than toughness for good knives. If you don't expect high performance I'm sure the trailmasters in 4034 should be pretty if nothing else. :)
 
Mark Spark said:
I suggest reading the article at this link:
http://www.nordsmithknives.com/blog...perfect-stainless-steel-for-an-outdoors-knife
It basically says AEB-L beats the snot out of 52100 on all measures important to knives including wear resistance. As we know, 52100 beats the snot out of O1 and A2. So there's a lot of room for 4034, which is similar to AEB-L, to be not just as good as, but better than A2.
I'll bet there's no cost difference in material between 4034 and AEB-L. If 4034 is cheaper to sell its probably because it's easier to work.
Steel snobbery is a powerful force. Just because 4034 is low cost doesn't mean it's low performance. Have some faith in CS.
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The composition of 4034 is not even close to that of AEB-L.
 
In a simple stainless such as 4034, you can have toughness by running it at a low Rockwell, or you can have some somewhat improved edge retention by running it at a higher Rockwell. You can't get both in the same piece of steel. This is true in some degree for all steels. But the differences due to hardness are most obvious in a simple stainless alloy.
 
knarfeng said:
In a simple stainless such as 4034, you can have toughness by running it at a low Rockwell, or you can have some somewhat improved edge retention by running it at a higher Rockwell. You can't get both in the same piece of steel. This is true in some degree for all steels. But the differences due to hardness are most obvious in a simple stainless alloy.
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Exactly. The shortcomings of this crapola will be very evident in a large knife.

I’ve been hoping this is all just a smokescreen while they “look harder” for A2 (or wake up and realize it would be simple to use a good steel they’re already using like 52100, O1, or at this point SK5).

Hell, 3V! I, for one, would be willing to pay for it. It’s hard to swallow being led on for two years. A2 is still listed as the steel for the knives in question on their own website. :rolleyes:
 
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EatingSarma said:
4034 is not AEB-L and anyone thinking that it is has to be delusional.

Not using 3V or even 52100 or SK-5 that they have available means only 1 thing - they got huge pile of this crap (4034) for cheap.
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I wouldn’t mind having 4034 in smaller, budget, semi-disposable knives like the Outdoorsman or Pendleton series. The stainless attribute is also a plus for food prep. But big knives need good ol’ carbon steel, no question.
 
goldie said:
The big question now is how much ? If 4034 is less expensive and easier to machine, theres no way they can be sold at the same prices as the previous knives in 01;the street price for the trailmaster and recon has to be 100.00 or less.the Natchez might be a bit more,but then i think of that united expendibles bowie that was 79.95.natchez has a more solid guard and handle.And remember, if these are going to be made in China instead of Taiwan ,which we dont know for sure yet,that has to drop the price too. Ranch boss is China ,so that might be another cost saving factor??What do you guys think the street price should be on these knives?
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I think a reasonable price would be about $50 for the Trailmaster if they replace the plastic sheath with leather. Assuming, that is, that it passes some kind of heavy-use testing and is safe to release.
 
Chris_Texas said:
I think a reasonable price would be about $50 for the Trailmaster if they replace the plastic sheath with leather. Assuming, that is, that it passes some kind of heavy-use testing and is safe to release.
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If they were to bring back the leather sheath, I'm sure that would put the price over a C-note. Leather is expensive these days, expensive to make into decent sheaths. I'm sure they won't do a leather sheath, not even the cheapo thin leather sheaths that come with cheap bowies from India. It'll be the usual plastic that dulls knives, "secure-ex", if I recall the name correctly.

If the knife is made in Taiwan, using Japanese 4034 steel, with a secure ex sheath, IMO a reasonable price would be around $80. If made in PRC, then that should cut the price in half.
 
I have a feeling they are gonna price them at 79.99 or 99.99 if they are made in Taiwan.at 40-50 i think theres not a big profit margin unless they are made in China.its anyones guess at this point.Made in China,in my opinion, even if its finished good, would still take it down another notch closer to the Bud K United Cutlery scrap heap.
 
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I'm guessing this wouldn't be popular here...
https://www.amazon.com/Boker-120547-Bowie-Knife-Stainless/dp/B0002VIH16
B0002VIH16

That should trigger a cerebral hemorhage.
I've never been tempted by any Boker.
 
"That should trigger a cerebral hemorhage."

Don't know why you would think that. That's a pretty knife made in Germany and it should look good on display but I wouldn't pay $260 ( E bay price) for it. It's also probably using European steel and not Japanese contracted steel smelted in the PRC. I like how it looks but have long ago stopped spending my now retired fixed income on pretty things. They have to have honest expectations of being used. Other than that I like it. I like Trailmasters and Recon Scouts more though. :)

You are talking to a bunch of Cold Steel supporters here who mostly have experience with knives and Trailmasters in particular. I don't know why anyone thinks we can be told what we want or like or need when deciding on spending our hard earned dollars. :eek: :)

And 4034, AEB-L, 420hc, as well as every other steel mentioned in this thread is something I have or had in knives before. A couple I have made knives in myself . All steels have their uses but they aren't all good for every job. Because you can make a knife in a particular steel doesn't mean you should.
 
A few years ago, I bought a GI Tanto to use as a throwing knife; robust geometry, durable point, tough alloy/heat treat at a good price; and it's been great. A GI Tanto in 4043 might pass for a water/dive knife; maybe an affordable production version Kit Carson U2(440C)/Buck Intrepid(420HC). When asked about any particular steel alloy, Mr. Carson used to say, "Out of all the steels I've used, it's one of them."
 
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deadzonepatrol said:
If they were to bring back the leather sheath, I'm sure that would put the price over a C-note. Leather is expensive these days, expensive to make into decent sheaths. I'm sure they won't do a leather sheath, not even the cheapo thin leather sheaths that come with cheap bowies from India. It'll be the usual plastic that dulls knives, "secure-ex", if I recall the name correctly.

If the knife is made in Taiwan, using Japanese 4034 steel, with a secure ex sheath, IMO a reasonable price would be around $80. If made in PRC, then that should cut the price in half.
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0% chance I’m getting any of those knives if they’re made in PRC, man.
 
Lots of good input here , let me try to clarify. Two or three years ago when visiting Taiwan we were discussing improving some of our steel types. A-2 came into discussion, it has long been a favorite of mine for prototyping and making my own personal fixed blades. We were quite surprised when our vendor priced the knives in A-2. We felt it was a good steel that really bridges the gap between common blade material and high end stuff like 3v etc.. So long story short the domestic A-2 in Taiwan never performed as A-2 should. At the same time we have been testing 4034 from Japan. Basically its a stainless spring steel , I think typically German. I'm not sure if Japan "improves" it a little because we reliably reach 57.5 RC. Our theory is a fighting knife can dull but not break , that said it is a good steel for something like the Laredo bowie. However we realize that there is still a demand for the very best . So as we are offering some knives in 4034 we are in the process of making those same knives in 3v. This in no easy task, in fact our vendor has built a custom made blade grinder just to grind our big 3v knives. Also we have not given up on A-2, and it may make an appearance in the future. So as it stands you ,the buyer, will have the opportunity to buy the 4034 or 3v. I think those are pretty fair choices.
 
DemkoKnives said:
Lots of good input here , let me try to clarify. Two or three years ago when visiting Taiwan we were discussing improving some of our steel types. A-2 came into discussion, it has long been a favorite of mine for prototyping and making my own personal fixed blades. We were quite surprised when our vendor priced the knives in A-2. We felt it was a good steel that really bridges the gap between common blade material and high end stuff like 3v etc.. So long story short the domestic A-2 in Taiwan never performed as A-2 should. At the same time we have been testing 4034 from Japan. Basically its a stainless spring steel , I think typically German. I'm not sure if Japan "improves" it a little because we reliably reach 57.5 RC. Our theory is a fighting knife can dull but not break , that said it is a good steel for something like the Laredo bowie. However we realize that there is still a demand for the very best . So as we are offering some knives in 4034 we are in the process of making those same knives in 3v. This in no easy task, in fact our vendor has built a custom made blade grinder just to grind our big 3v knives. Also we have not given up on A-2, and it may make an appearance in the future. So as it stands you ,the buyer, will have the opportunity to buy the 4034 or 3v. I think those are pretty fair choices.
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Thanks for contributing to the discussion, and for providing the clarification. Much appreciated. I would definitely add a 3v Laredo to my collection.
 
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