ABS Forging, what counts ?.

[marekz]

WORD---mark

 

[Tai Goo]

I think some of the main reasons that so many people have jumped on the ABS bandwagon are the notions that if you passed the tests and earned the stamps you would be able to make more money, faster and easier, and that it would give you a certain credibility as a bladesmith in the marketplace. This may have been true early on in the organization, but if that’s what you believe now,… you may walk away from it being very disappointed. There is also the notion that there is some kind of universal camaraderie among members of the ABS. However, there is as much feuding going on within the organization as there is anywhere else.

If you are just looking for a elementary foundation in forging to build from and a general knowledge of knifemaking,… then it may be an adequate place to start.

 

[Tai Goo]

... If you think the ABS will mysteriously instantaneously transform you into a Bill Moran, a Don Fogg or a Jerry Fisk, etc… the moment they hand you your MS stamp,… think again!

The only way any of the top bladesmsmiths, inside or outside the ABS, got where they are today,… is by their own hard work and years of dedication.

 

[Don Hanson III]

Tai, your gettin serious again

But this is absolutely true;

... If you think the ABS will mysteriously instantaneously transform you into a Bill Moran, a Don Fogg or a Jerry Fisk, etc… the moment they hand you your MS stamp,… think again!

The only way any of the top bladesmsmiths, inside or outside the ABS, got where they are today,… is by their own hard work and years of dedication.

 

[Ed Caffrey]

Ya know, I've watch your posts for a long time Tia, and my impression is that you have some kind of a chip on your shoulder about the ABS?

I don't claim to know your history with the organization, but it always seems to me that if even a vague opportunity presents itself, your one of the first ones to start discrediting the ABS. Is there some incident that occurred that has left you bitter?

My own personal experiences with the organization have been very positive. Of course, as with any larger organization, not everyone is going to get along, and its not always going to be a "bed of roses", but from my view point the ABS has adhered to it's original charter.

I didn't join the ABS with any expectation of selling more knives, or making more money. It was something that I did because I wanted to do, just for me. I think that the expectations part is where some folks get their feelings hurt, or are disappointed. Its not about what the organization can do for you...its about what you can do for it. Those other things that some folks might expect, will follow.

To address your comments about the ABS lending credibility to a Bladesmith......it certainly is not instantaneous, and I agree that it takes a great deal of work and effort on the individual Bladesmith's part. If folks are looking for those things from the ABS, then they have the wrong idea.....there is no instand gratification.
Speaking from 25 years of Bladesmithing experience, its up to the individual to create who and what they are within the knifemaking community. I think your dead wrong in the thought that the ABS ratings do not carry weight with knife buyers. There are a huge number of buyers out there who make it a point to ask if an individual is an ABS member or carries a JS/ MS rating as one of their purchasing decision points....I hear if often.

Shortly after achieving my MS rating, I got a call from the local technical college, asking me to administrate/build a course in metal arts. I tried to explain to them that the MS was not a Master's degree as they knew it. Their reply was that in their eyes what I had achieved equated to a Master's Degree in what I do. You can view it as you choose, but without working for, and achieving my MS rating, that phone call would have never come.
Had I never joined the ABS, I likely would not have been able to achieve the things I have in Bladesmithing. The ABS, while not holding my hand, spoon feeding me, or directing me at every crossroad, opened up avenues to numerous hammer-ins, gatherings, and access to a huge number of Bladesmiths who knew a whole lot more than I did, and that I would otherwise have never known existed. With each gathering I attended/attend, my ideas and knowledge grow. Of course it has taken a lot of personal hard work, time, and over the years, a tidy sum of money, but I choose to view my involvment with the ABS as a very positive experience. As with any endeavor we choose to embark upon, its what you make of it. You can either view the glass as being half full......or half empty. Its up to the individual. Ultimately, you get out of any situation/endeavor, what you put into it.

This thread was started with the question of what constitutes "forged". Obvously that opinion varies widely, but what constitutes "forged" from the ABS viewpoint is whatever they say. My personal thought is that the terminology is intentionally broad to be inclusive for the widest range of experience levels possible, within the spirit and intent of the ABS. I think that if you have to ask the question "Is this considered forged?" Then its not.

 

[Tai Goo]

Ya know, I've watch your posts for a long time Tia, and my impression is that you have some kind of a chip on your shoulder about the ABS?

I don't claim to know your history with the organization, but it always seems to me that if even a vague opportunity presents itself, your one of the first ones to start discrediting the ABS. Is there some incident that occurred that has left you bitter?

No,... none whatsoever Ed.

I'm just giving an honest perspective of someone who has watched the whole thing from the very beginning, from the outside. As, I have said before I have a lot of friends and connections on the inside,... and a lot of respect for some of the individual smiths.

 

[A C Richards]

Turned in to a Can Of Worms about the ABS again. Oh well we all need to decide if it is what we want. For me it has been a great learning opportunity. I started out with a blacksmith as an instructor. He taught me some great basic techniques. Did not know squat about knifemaking or heat treating though he tried to (teach me). The First "Knife Maker" I ever met was Tai. Took a class from him and it was an eye opener. But I needed more. I being military. like organizations. Also when I went to my first knife show the only ones willing to provide honest and helpful criticism were ABS members (though I had no Idea what the ABS was). One of the guys handed me a membership application, and I filed it away in the someday pile. The next few years were difficult as far a knifemaking went. I was Stationed at Keflavik Iceland and needed to build my own forge. I found Wayne Goddards article and constructed a forge and went to beating out hot steel. Kind of like Nick described, look somewhat like a Popsicle stick. Got a little better though and put points on them. I was totally lost. No Idea how to HT. No Idea of the proper forging techniques. I read everything I could and so on. Even once I retired it was the same. No Knifemakers in the area. I had become somewhat proficient at HT by then and could do a torch heat pretty well. Since Joining the ABS I have had available to me up to 6 Master Smiths at a hammer in. Sharing all of their knowledge (or at least what I could absorb). I have even called some on the phone and all have been happy to hear from me and happy to help with my question. Now did I NEED the ABS? no, Did it make it a bit easier to find out information and further my skills? For me ABSOLUTELY. It all boils down to the personal decision to be a part of it or not. The ABS is not there to tell you how to make a knife. Yes they have certain expectations during the testing process but they do not police the membership. We are a teaching organization, we try our best to further the craft of the forged blade. It is much easier to do this with a large group than individually.

To each there own on joining. I do not judge those who are or are not members. I share freely with all who want to learn. This is one thing that attracted me to this craft in the first place.

 

[Tai Goo]

Tai, your gettin serious again

LOL

... can't stop reading it though can you?

I hope there's nothing wrong with a mixture of silliness and seriousness on my part though.

Just look at it this way,... there's something for everyone!