- Joined
- Jul 30, 2008
- Messages
- 1,414
I'm in the market for a hard (but sane) use folder, must be a stainless blade, very stout lock, max $500, used ok. My requirements got long, but hope they are clear and narrow things down:
1. Frame Lock: preferred as 1st choice, one where initial lockup out of the box is well behind the blade tang (I don’t want to modify or “wear it in” before I get good lockup). The Umnumzaan is a benchmark here.
2. Prefer a standard-ish drop or clip point blade shape with a reasonably sharp but stout point and definitely some belly, (e.g. no pure Tanto's need apply). Recurve at back of blade is preferred but not an absolute.
3. symmetrically ground blade
4. 3-1/2" to 3-3/4” blade is sweetspot. A 4” would have to be well designed and stout. A stout 3-1/4” could be enough.
5. Must have a thumb stud for opening, prefer a grippy stud on both sides but not an absolute (I’m right handed). Spyderholes, round or oval or otherwise are ok as long as there are also thumb studs. A flipper as an alternative is a big plus if well designed and not a nuisance in my pocket, especially as the flipper makes a more secure “guard” for index finger. I could be talked into using flipper as sole opening mechanism for the “perfect” knife for this application.
6. Want a good "guard" configuration of handle (plus flipper) so index finger has a reasonably deep recess to prevent knife sliding forward in a thrusting type cut. An ergonomic handle that's grippy (machined and bead blasted G10 or micarta would be good). Doesn't have to be pretty.
7. Prefer option of tip down carry for safety, which reminds me a strong detent that holds the blade firmly in the handle when closed is a big plus.
8. Price Range ($500 max): A thoughtfully used custom would be fine. I'll be carrying it daily on the largest construction site currently underway in the Americas (1st new refinery to be built in 30 years, $9 Billion job).
Folders that I own that come close:
• The Umnumzaan comes close. Just not quite stout enough blade thickness and grinds (hollow) and prefer a machined and blasted G10 or Micarta type grip on one at least one side for secure grip. Lockup super, love the stiff pivot with thumbstuds to resist lateral loads. Mechanically, I love this knife. (a flat ground Umnumzaan with large G10 inserts interframe/inlaid in milled pockets on both sides would be a good target).
• The Acies that I own has a frame lock that doesn’t have much friction behind the tang (maybe angles aren’t quite right), doesn’t have G10 on one side, and I’m skeptical that the “Free Lunch” with ZDP-189 at Rc 64-66 will result in a blade more likely to chip than bend. I do like the deep riding pocket clip and big flat blade grind and tip is acceptable for this application (if not stout). Blade to handle ratio is excellent.
• The ZeroTolerance 0300ST Strider / Onion comes close, the recurve is fine, but blade is too “tall”, and so the angle on the point is too obtuse for daily utility work… the big belly is nice but more than needed, and the recurve is great for cutting say 3/8” manila rope in hand.
• The Emerson CQC8 (4” and Horseman (3.5” comes close. It has a great, secure grip, plenty of index finger “guard” w/o a flipper, but the liner lock isn’t totally stout, Pivot isn’t so stout, and the asymmetrical final edge bevel is fine for defense, but a minor annoyance for daily utility work.
• Benchmade 710 Axis in ATS-34: lockup good, a bit long for thin blade stock at 4”, but good blade design, just too thin… not as rugged in pivot and stiff laterally (bending) overall as I’d like. If it had a beefier blade, pivot, and overall build and had S30V or black coated 3V, would be a good choice.
• I have a used RJ Martin Havoc on order that might fit the bill… don’t have it yet.
• I own a carbon fiber Benchmade Griptilian. Carbon helps stiffness but pivot still not stout, blade design is acceptable overall, just not quite beefy enough all around. Plus it’s black coated CPM M4 and this knife will assuredly be sweat upon by salty stanky sweat.
Candidates… a short list, where I could use your help:
1. Eyeballing the Hinderer X18. His rounded belly but beefed up tip grind looks like I could keep a sharp point but still have a stout grind that could stand some reasonable (not insane) abuse (I know it's a folder, so won't do stupid prying).
2. Strider has a good reputation as being stout, but I haven’t handled one yet.
I told you it was short.
Sidebar: I'm also going to carry a well chosen Leatherman type multitool on my belt suitable for electricians, as a side bar, and that should have a small blade I can keep razor sharp for delicate cutting, but will find that elsewhere as I evaluate options and tool selection. Point: I'll take a stout, rational, thick blade with a flat grind left thick at the edge. (not sure anyone will offer a hollow ground knife like this, but have seen them in years past done with a 10" or 12" contact wheel)
==> What can you guys recommend I take a look at?
1. Frame Lock: preferred as 1st choice, one where initial lockup out of the box is well behind the blade tang (I don’t want to modify or “wear it in” before I get good lockup). The Umnumzaan is a benchmark here.
a. Other Locks: I’m open minded about other strong, hard-to-accidentally-unlock offerings, like a well designed thick liner lock that is fully behind the blade tang.
b. Lock must not be easily/accidentally defeated in use. Don’t mind taking a glove off to close the knife. But it absolutely can’t accidentally come unlocked. (please hold the fixed blade recommendations… just not what I want to carry since I’ll be scaling caged ladders and that’s one more thing that can snag and fall… perhaps on someone.)
2. Prefer a standard-ish drop or clip point blade shape with a reasonably sharp but stout point and definitely some belly, (e.g. no pure Tanto's need apply). Recurve at back of blade is preferred but not an absolute.
3. symmetrically ground blade
a. No chisel grinds
b. e.g. not the Emerson CQC8 which I love for personal defense but have to deal with asymmetrical final edge bevel which is a demerit in daily utility work.
4. 3-1/2" to 3-3/4” blade is sweetspot. A 4” would have to be well designed and stout. A stout 3-1/4” could be enough.
5. Must have a thumb stud for opening, prefer a grippy stud on both sides but not an absolute (I’m right handed). Spyderholes, round or oval or otherwise are ok as long as there are also thumb studs. A flipper as an alternative is a big plus if well designed and not a nuisance in my pocket, especially as the flipper makes a more secure “guard” for index finger. I could be talked into using flipper as sole opening mechanism for the “perfect” knife for this application.
6. Want a good "guard" configuration of handle (plus flipper) so index finger has a reasonably deep recess to prevent knife sliding forward in a thrusting type cut. An ergonomic handle that's grippy (machined and bead blasted G10 or micarta would be good). Doesn't have to be pretty.
7. Prefer option of tip down carry for safety, which reminds me a strong detent that holds the blade firmly in the handle when closed is a big plus.
8. Price Range ($500 max): A thoughtfully used custom would be fine. I'll be carrying it daily on the largest construction site currently underway in the Americas (1st new refinery to be built in 30 years, $9 Billion job).
The expensive Terzuola frame locks are out (unless well used, and cheap, and meets requirements).
An overbuilt $200 production folder would be great... but I'd go as high as (gulp) $500 for a used custom or semi-custom.
$700 is too much to lose (I am unlikely to truly damage the knife from abuse, but it could get dropped repeatedly… ah, if only there was a stainless 3V… Folders that I own that come close:
• The Umnumzaan comes close. Just not quite stout enough blade thickness and grinds (hollow) and prefer a machined and blasted G10 or Micarta type grip on one at least one side for secure grip. Lockup super, love the stiff pivot with thumbstuds to resist lateral loads. Mechanically, I love this knife. (a flat ground Umnumzaan with large G10 inserts interframe/inlaid in milled pockets on both sides would be a good target).
• The Acies that I own has a frame lock that doesn’t have much friction behind the tang (maybe angles aren’t quite right), doesn’t have G10 on one side, and I’m skeptical that the “Free Lunch” with ZDP-189 at Rc 64-66 will result in a blade more likely to chip than bend. I do like the deep riding pocket clip and big flat blade grind and tip is acceptable for this application (if not stout). Blade to handle ratio is excellent.
• The ZeroTolerance 0300ST Strider / Onion comes close, the recurve is fine, but blade is too “tall”, and so the angle on the point is too obtuse for daily utility work… the big belly is nice but more than needed, and the recurve is great for cutting say 3/8” manila rope in hand.
• The Emerson CQC8 (4”
and Horseman (3.5” comes close. It has a great, secure grip, plenty of index finger “guard” w/o a flipper, but the liner lock isn’t totally stout, Pivot isn’t so stout, and the asymmetrical final edge bevel is fine for defense, but a minor annoyance for daily utility work. • Benchmade 710 Axis in ATS-34: lockup good, a bit long for thin blade stock at 4”, but good blade design, just too thin… not as rugged in pivot and stiff laterally (bending) overall as I’d like. If it had a beefier blade, pivot, and overall build and had S30V or black coated 3V, would be a good choice.
• I have a used RJ Martin Havoc on order that might fit the bill… don’t have it yet.
• I own a carbon fiber Benchmade Griptilian. Carbon helps stiffness but pivot still not stout, blade design is acceptable overall, just not quite beefy enough all around. Plus it’s black coated CPM M4 and this knife will assuredly be sweat upon by salty stanky sweat.
Candidates… a short list, where I could use your help:
1. Eyeballing the Hinderer X18. His rounded belly but beefed up tip grind looks like I could keep a sharp point but still have a stout grind that could stand some reasonable (not insane) abuse (I know it's a folder, so won't do stupid prying).
2. Strider has a good reputation as being stout, but I haven’t handled one yet.
I told you it was short.
Sidebar: I'm also going to carry a well chosen Leatherman type multitool on my belt suitable for electricians, as a side bar, and that should have a small blade I can keep razor sharp for delicate cutting, but will find that elsewhere as I evaluate options and tool selection. Point: I'll take a stout, rational, thick blade with a flat grind left thick at the edge. (not sure anyone will offer a hollow ground knife like this, but have seen them in years past done with a 10" or 12" contact wheel)
==> What can you guys recommend I take a look at?
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