Advice on Stoutly Built Field-use Folder

ROBB said:
I think you would have to do some heavy prying to break that blade, even more to break a Spyderco hole. I'm pretty sure Spyderco gets much more blades breaking at the tip than around the hole.
If you're going to do prying and not worry about cutting geometry than the XM-18 is for you. Its designed by a firefighter for those kind of duties.
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Agreed on the Spyderco observations (tip vs hole). That's one reason I eventually sold my Spyderco Military... tip was too delicate to trust, and a broken knife is hard to sell. :D

I stand by my comment/concern re: HEST

The XM-18 looks like the best bet, but the ZT550 has my eye also (besides, I really need 2 knives to fit the bill... rotation through the sharpening jig! ;-)

I'd like to own a Strider for a while to form an opinion also.

You guys are great... some excellent recommendations. Keep them coming, I'll research them all on the forums and the web.
 
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In the spirit of giving something back in return for all the great recommendations, I just took delivery of a pretty cool knife you may have seen in Knives Illustrated (Aug '10) article by Les Robertson... he was highlighting the work of Frank Fischer. (not promoting this as a particularly hard use folder, just a very cool daily carry and defensive piece).

http://frankfischerknives.com/index.html

The KI article says it better than I can... but briefly, Frank learned from his father Todd Fischer who is a maker.

Personally, I'm not into radical designs, although I can understand the appeal (e.g. Richard Derespina, Laci Szabo, and Steve Ryan come to mind).

Having said that, Frank's T-Konn is such a cool design that it almost had me buying a tanto-ish blade, even though I don't like tanto's with a few exceptions (Bob Lum Spyderco Tanto, and RJ Martin's Japanese knife grinds).

But I bought his LS-2 from Les Robertson (link below) and I dig it a lot. Already sharpened it so she's mine. I'm picky about folder quality with respect to design and price point, and this one passes nicely:
  • Blade grind is excellent quality.
  • The way he mills the slot for the carbon fiber overlay is really super cool, makes for a stronger knife (those aren't bolsters).
  • His pocket clips are the absolute sleekest and coolest with no visible screws (screwed on from the inside). Excellent.
  • Blade lockup of the integral is good, but not far enough behind the tang (too far to the left) for my tastes. I'm going to let the frame lock wear in for a couple months and see where it settles.
  • Flipper action is good but not super-duper-slick, but I think I can probably tweak this with some very judicious polishing and some lightweight Kratox grease.
  • It was ok sharp but had a burr on the edge, which is a pet peeve of mine. It didn't take long to reprofile w/ diamond stones, but from experience sharpening, it wasn't easy which tells me he got the S30V hard enough, which I prefer.

http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/fischer3.htm

I also like the looks / design of his Commander L and HK-1:

http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/fischer4.htm
http://frankfischerknives.com/knife_links/HK1.html

Punchline: Frank Fischer knives will be on my future list purchase list, for sure. A young maker to watch... and support him now because his designs and his build quality are very good already.
 
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Rob_Angerer said:
...
The XM-18 looks like the best bet, but the ZT550 has my eye also (besides, I really need 2 knives to fit the bill... rotation through the sharpening jig! ;-)

I'd like to own a Strider for a while to form an opinion also.
...
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Who knows when the ZT550 will be available? And as I was reading your opening post, I thought to myself: "This guy is describing the XM-18."

The only snag is that they may be hard to find, specially at $500.
 
Thanks again for all your contributions to the thread.

Status: I now have the following in-hand with early, first impressions very favorable (a few nitpicks with these I'll comment on some other time/place):

  • Combative Edge M1
  • Fantoni Harsey/Reeve Razionale.
  • Hinderer XM-18 (one stock Spanto, the other a Krein regrind Spanto... couldn't resist)
  • CRK Umnumzaan Tanto

I have these on order:

  • Mike Zermino Azrael (few months, via Les Robertson... has the blade grind of the CQC8, but can be ordered customized and I'm hoping is substantially heavier built than the production Emerson CQC8) http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/zerminotac.htm
  • Zero Tolerance 0550 LTD early release (via Kershaw Guy)
  • Strider SnG CC Digicamo

I already own numerous Sebenza's and one Umnumzaan, and the Zero Tolerance 0350CB (Elmax composite blade).

I might order:
  • the ZT 0300 frame lock to round things out.

Will post a review of some sort as things progress.
 
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Wow, you're really determined to have a folding tank-buster huh? Mind I ask what you do with these and why you haven't just started carrying a fixed blade?
 
First I think you are right on the money with a used Terzuola ATCF. You can't get much better than that, but as you know they are hard to find.

I'd like to recommend an alternative that seems to meet your requirements that you may not be aware of. The Hogue/Elishewitz EX01 is a new offering from Hogue, a maker of grips and stocks for shooters.

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Rob_Angerer said:
...1. Frame Lock: preferred as 1st choice, ...
a. Other Locks: I’m open minded about other strong, hard-to-accidentally-unlock offerings, like a well designed thick liner lock that is fully behind the blade tang.​
b. Lock must not be easily/accidentally defeated in use.

Don’t mind taking a glove off to close the knife. But it absolutely can’t accidentally come unlocked. (please hold the fixed blade recommendations… just not what I want to carry since I’ll be scaling caged ladders and that’s one more thing that can snag and fall… perhaps on someone.)...​
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The EX01 has a button/plunge lock that is both strong and safe. The EX01 has a safety slide that locks the button from being depressed when the blade is open.

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As far as the strength of the lock I'm embedding YouTube links to Allen Elishewitz links that display his lock tests. (Mods: I hope I'm not breaking any rules with this)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7xok84JWSE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8OAaUduj7w&feature=related

The drop point blade shape is an option.
The blade grind is symmetrical.
The blade lengths are 3.5" and 4".
The blade opens with a thumb stud.
There is a deep finger choil in the handle.
The G10 handle has a very grippy "Piranha" pattern on the obverse side.
The spoon type pocket clip defaults to tip-down, but can also be reversed to tip-up.
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Another piece of good news is that both the 3.5 and 4.0 can be acquired for considerably less than your $500.00 limit.
 
Statmonster beat me to it, but I was also gonna suggest that you look at the Allen Elishewitz designed Hogue folders. They are already available and may be pretty close to what you want.
 
Other than price, you should look at a cold steel pocket bushman. Before you guys freak out, it has everything the op wants, except the big price tag. It is stainless, your not going to unlock the blade on accident, the blade holds an edge pretty well, it has ambidextrous thumb studs. I guess it doesn't have grippy scales, a flipper, or a pocket clip that goes tip down, but for the difference in price, I don't think the difference in price is proportionate to the difference in performance.

Strider knives are built well, and I think you wont be disappointed with any one you choose.
 
As you may or may not know Elmax is some really good stuff and the ZT 0551 due october will be sporting this wonderful stuff. There is a sign up for it you may be able to get on...

If its anything like the 0300 I had then it will easily rival the quality of folders 2-3x its price. There has also been design changes to the 551, FYI.

If I were to go custom though it would be a demko, I carry a CS AK now and it puts a whole new definition on lock strength. Not a bad knife for the price either. Its probably the knife I would suggest for construction work too, or the lawman.
 
I thought you were describing the XM-18 in your OP, so that is what I suggest to you as well. Your requirement for a "guard" for your index finger perfectly describes the flipper on the XM-18. It works perfectly in this function, as well as helping to open the knife. THe grind sounds like it fits your requirements well too. Stout blade with a good amount of belly and a thick tip. I carry one on the job, which sounds about like yours. Industrial construction. No worries about the knife closing unless I want it to, and no question it will take whatever I ask it to.
 
Javelin said:
Wow, you're really determined to have a folding tank-buster huh? Mind I ask what you do with these and why you haven't just started carrying a fixed blade?
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Hi... my name is Rob... and I'm a knife-o-holic. (... and I type fast, so a lot of words end up on screen).

I've got 2 years+ of engineering support to heavy construction project ahead of me.

Why not a fixed blade? Fair question! I'll already have a radio and probably an electrician-oriented multitool in pouch on my belt when I'm in the field. Also, will do plenty of permanent/fixed ladder climbing (e.g. w/ exterior cages), and will be in plenty of tight spaces... don't wan't something else hanging from my belt (e.g. sheath knife) to hook/snag on things, or to drop on someone's head when it snags on a ladder (heavy safety culture here).

But otherwise, agreed... a nice, stout 3-1/2" S30V fixed blade would do the trick. The folder stays in the pocket, and with a lanyard won't get lost.

I ended up with two XM-18's... one stock Spanto stone washed finish, the other Spanto with a Krein Regrind (super slick regrind to make it look more custom with nicer blade profile). I think the stock XM-18 will really do the trick as a stout daily carry piece. Went without the flipper since that's just one more thing that can catch on something, and open the knife in my pocket (reiterate safety culture on site).

  • Still curious about the Striders, but having a hard time getting past the handle shape and huge choil / blade-to-handle ratio oddities of the SnG and SmF. Still, would buy a used SnG CC drop point if at a good price.
  • Also curious about the Demko.
  • And thanks for pointing our the Hogue/Elishewitz EX01... researching that one now...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Background/Sidebar:
I work as an instrumentation and control systems engineer for a major oil company. We're in the process of building the first new/grassroots refinery built on US soil in 30 years.
  • As long as it's not in your back yard, this is a good thing for the consumer... more diesel & gasoline supply for the market should help keep price inflation down somewhat (remember $4/gal gas & $4.50/gal diesel?).
  • Refinery design is tilted towards diesel production but will produce plenty of gasoline.
  • Will process ~ 325,000 barrels of crude oil per day (barrel is 42 gallons, so that's 13.65 million gallons of crude/day).
  • Building new refinery adjacent to an existing refinery in SE Texas. The two combined will be the largest refinery in the USA.
We're just entering the construction phase for the Instrument & Electrical work... so I've got 2 years+ of heavy construction work ahead of me.
 
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jdraizor said:
I thought you were describing the XM-18 in your OP... requirement for a "guard" ... describes the flipper on the XM-18. ... THe grind sounds like it fits your requirements well too. Stout blade with a good amount of belly and a thick tip. I carry one on the job... Industrial construction. No worries about the knife closing unless I want it to...
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Good feedback.

Close call on the flipper for me. I'm so used to thumb studs, and have had flippers snag my pocket and partially open the blade in pocket... so opted to go without. Construction site is VERY safety concious, and last thing I need is to be "that Instr Engr" who created a first aid or OSHA recordable in the engineering ranks. Those of you who work on construction sites with a huge focus on safety know what I mean. The handle design of the XM-18 provides a plenty secure grip minus the flipper. If I were going to carry when self defense was the primary carry-goal, I'd go with the flipper for sure.

Both XM-18's lock up (new) with locking bar only 2/3 behind the tang. Wish they were fully behind, as I think it'll take a while for them to wear-in. Prefer immediately solid lockup over longevity.

I have a Fantoni Reeve/Harsey Razionale and a Combative Edge M1 in hand also. They are good choices, but the XM-18 fits my specific needs better for construction carry. The M1 is a very nicely designed defensive blade, on par (but better built) with the Emerson CQC8 IMHO. More on that later or in another post.
 
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statmonster said:
Another piece of good news is that both the [Hogue/Elishewitz] 3.5 and 4.0 can be acquired for considerably less than your $500.00 limit.
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New Graham knives has the four flavors of the Hogue/Elishewitz EX01 production knife listed for $150 to $165, but is out of stock for the G10 drop point... 2-3 weeks. I'm on the waiting list. Looks promising, and the price point is good. 154CM is a plenty decent choice (ahhh, when will we get a stainless 3V, for toughness and stain resistance??)
 
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Two more to consider.

The ZT 0500 MUDD. Has the HAWK lock on the side which is sealed along with a completely sealed pivot. This is one of the only folders I have ever felt with absolutely ZERO blade play yet smooth opening. 154CM blade steel and a big thumb stud for gloved hands.

zt0500.jpg



The Rukus or Mini Rukus (which isn't really mini) depending on what size you want.

bm610.jpg
 
Rob_Angerer said:
Good feedback.

Close call on the flipper for me. I'm so used to thumb studs, and have had flippers snag my pocket and partially open the blade in pocket... so opted to go without. Construction site is VERY safety concious, and last thing I need is to be "that Instr Engr" who created a first aid or OSHA recordable in the engineering ranks. Those of you who work on construction sites with a huge focus on safety know what I mean. The handle design of the XM-18 provides a plenty secure grip minus the flipper. If I were going to carry when self defense was the primary carry-goal, I'd go with the flipper for sure.
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Civil/project engineer here. Also acting as our safety coordinator on site right now. Safety is always priority one, and I commend you for having the forethought of a possible dangerous situation. However, I have never had a problem with my flippers in my pocket. Tip down carry with my 3.5" and it has never been an issue catching on anything or opening in my pocket,even with a harness on climbing around on steel. Either way, you got some great knives there and I am sure they will serve you well. I know mine have. In the future if you decided to try a flipper, I think you will be very happy with it as well. Congrats on the fine knives, work safe.

-JD
 
jdraizor said:
...I have never had a problem with my flippers in my pocket. Tip down carry with my 3.5" and it has never been an issue catching on anything or opening in my pocket, even with a harness on climbing around on steel... -JD
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Unfortunately, I have had a flipper open partially while I was withdrawing from my pocket (tip down carry). Knife opened partially, tip poked through fabric. I stopped withdrawing it, got it un-stuck, closed it, no harm done. This was partially "operator error" as I allowed flipper to snag corner of pocket, but it's easy to do.

... tip up kinda solves this issue, but again, I've had tip up knives, sans-flipper, open partially in my pocked on withdrawal. Helps if the maker has enough lock pressure on liner lock that ball detent is really solid, but this increases the force required to open the knife. RJ Martin seems to have a very good balance figured out on his flippers.

I like flippers as a novelty, they are indeed fun, and it won't stop me from buying e.g. a couple RJ Martin flippers, but I'm not sold on it as the SOLE method of opening a knife. The maker has to really slick up the pivot/action, or have a long flipper for leverage.

Prefer flipper knife to include thumb studs, but my 15+ years of muscle memory reaches for a thumb stud/disc/hole instinctively (e.g. under stress).

Food for thought.

We all have our preferences, and I appreciate hearing people's thoughts/input.

This has turned into a very useful but expensive thread for me :D ... hope it has for ya'll also.
 
The WDZ Azrael is a good choice- this is the one I own. He also makes a more conventionally shaped drop point. It's titanium and carbon fiber and it is a BEAST! This is a seriously hefty knife!

cp2.jpg

cp1.jpg


The new Lion Steel that is machined from a solid block of titanium is another one you should investigate. Search for the thread "An ambitious folder" in this forum to find it.

knifeart_2121_362186854
 
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