Advice on Stoutly Built Field-use Folder

[Rob_Angerer]

The EX01 has a button/plunge lock that is both strong and safe... & has a safety slide that locks the button from being depressed when the blade is open.

As far as the strength of the lock I'm embedding YouTube links to Allen Elishewitz links that display his lock tests...

I went ahead and ordered a Hogue/Elishewitz 3.5" G10 drop point just to check it out.

Allen's Youtube lock tests are interesting. Shame he didn't reveal the make/model of the other production knives he tested. As a knife maker, I can understand why he didn't, since he'd be a lightning rod for ridiculous criticisms.

• I'm all for strong locks.
• I'm also for locks (e.g. liner locks) that are fully behind the tang.
• I think the most important feature is that the lock is not easily and accidentally released when in normal vigorous use. There are many liner lock designs that are somewhat easily released since the liner lock is not even with the handle slabs, and even better is a slight recess.

Except for very poorly built knives, which I can weed out just evaluating them at my desk with a spine whack and my brain + eyeball + hands, and some judicious and careful hand force, I'm very unlikely to subject a FOLDING knife to such excessive forces in use as a knife that the lock fails. So to me, the overall design of the knife, i.e. how the lock engages with the hand during use, is of significant importance.

I've suffered enough bad cuts from doing stupid things that I've grown wiser in my habits. E.g., cutting away from myself, especially under force, taking the time to go find the right tool for the job (e.g. scissors, machetes, axes, etc). blahblahblah

So a strong lock is good (e.g. the Elishewitz tests). But lock and overall handle and folder design, how it engages with your hand when in use, is even more important.

Liner and frame locks have some limitations, but I'm very used to them and properly designed they are really pretty damned safe, if used wisely. All this IMO, and YMMV, caveat emptor, e pluribus unum, etc.

I need to handle a Demko!

 

[Rob_Angerer]

Two more to consider.

The ZT 0500 MUDD....

The Rukus or Mini Rukus (which isn't really mini)

Boy, that ZT MUDD is one UGLY knife. But beauty of the booty is in the eye of the beholder. But I sincerely do appreciate your bringing it to my attention and to the thread.

I like the looks, handle design, and Axis of the Rukus. The Mini is indeed a full sized knife. I handled one of these a while back, and the blade itself isn't quite stout enough (thickness, blade grind) for this particular application, but otherwise I like this knife a lot. Don't own one, but would if used and cheap.

 

[Rob_Angerer]

• [FONT=arial, helvetica]I have the Hogue/Elishewitz knife on order to check it out...
  [*]And a slightly used Strider SnG CC Digicamo on the way...
  [*]I own a Zero Tolerance 350CB with the Elmax/14C28N composite blade.
  The ZT 350CB is a neat assisted opening knife (a bit too fat/tall for my design tastes), but I'm not sure how they bond the Elmax to the 14C28N. I suspect an EDM precision cut of the pieces, bonded with some kind of brazing technique, as the "line" between the pieces is copper colored... which to me is suspect for anything other than pure slicing action (I would definitely not subject this to any kind of common sense twisting or side loads, even mild ones that a normal hard use folder should tolerate). If anyone knows how they bond these pieces together, chime in... would appreciate the info/education. ​
  [/FONT]

The Demko is interesting... would like to check out a used one.

Anyway, here are the semi-finalists...

I hired a relatively inexpensive local consultant to assist, and she is pointing to her (and my) top 3 picks in the shootout:




But then she got bored with the project and started slacking... motivated help is hard to find, especially on carpet in the A/C:


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[Jason B.]

Nothing to worry about with a CB blade, a properly bonded joint is always stronger than the piece itself.

 

[Charlie Mike]

This will fit your needs PERFECTLY!

Darrel Ralph Gunhammer.

...or

Darrel Ralph Trigger

 

[LorenzoL]

My top choice would be an XM-18. I prefer the non-flipper version but the OP mentioned the need for a guard so the flipper might work for him.

I understand those are not easy to come by at Rick's price ($385), so as an alternative I would look at the Lionsteel SR-1.

It has all the pre-requisites the OP mentioned, although I am not sure Sleipner is stainless enough for his needs. And last I checked KnifeArt had one in stock.

 

[rod tak]

I would second the DDR, but also the Dempko

 

[Rob_Angerer]

Nothing to worry about with a CB blade, a properly bonded joint is always stronger than the piece itself.

While I agree that a properly bonded joint (think wood, or welded steel) should be as good or stronger than the surrounding material... tell me more... ==> what do you know about how Kershaw does the bonding?

Anyone found any threads, or web references? My quick late night Google didn't turn up anything.

 

[Rob_Angerer]

... so as an alternative I would look at the Lionsteel SR-1.

Yes, good call. I spotted this knife on Knifeart a few weeks ago. I like that someone has pickup up where Scott Cook took the titanium folder and milled it out of one piece (well executed, should be stronger all around). I think I could deal with a D2-ish steel [[FONT=arial, helvetica]"Uddeholm Sleipner Steel - (Similar to D2 Steel, RC 60-61")] [/FONT]in the field, corrosion-wise with a modicum of care daily. Alas, this blade suffers IMO from same think that the ZT 350 CB does... blade is too tall/fat, which translates into a big heavy knife when you factor in the handle needed to house the blade. These tip scales at 6.9 oz.

The CF Umnumzaan Tanto is 4.3oz, the X-18 Spanto 5.6oz.

This doesn't sound like a lot of extra weight, but it is directionally wrong from the fairly heavy Spanto. I've got a Big Terzuola with fat slabs of mammoth ivory that goes 9 oz, and it has no pocket clip, and is an absolutely heavy little brick to carry in a pocket sheath.

If Lion Steel scales this same design back to a 3.4" blade, I'll probably buy one. Great suggestion for the thread however... would like to hear others opinions on the LionSteel knife construction. It has a novel, screwed on "wear plate" where the frame lock meets blade tang. Not pretty, but if it functions well and is unobtrusive, the ostensible benefit of being able to adjust or replace a "wear point" on the lock seems ok... but it could land in the "solution with screws in search of a real problem" category also.

Side bar on the Scott Cook Lochsa: Beautiful and ergonomic as it is, I should have gotten one on order when he first came out with them. Knowing his pedigree from CRK, I should have lined up. Now he has a knife that is in such demand that he gets exhorbitant prices, didn't answer my email, and seems to just be enjoying the fat margins rather than getting some help in his shop (or outsource some of the non-custom work portions) to meet demand and get a large volume out to meet demand. I'm frustrated by this, and wish him the best, but won't be paying scalpers/flippers prices, or any of his very rich auction prices anytime soon when I can get a customized RJ Martin or Larry Chew knife for far less money, or a CRK with wood or ivory inlays and damascus for 2/3 what he's getting for plain-jane-ish Lochsas. Shame.

 

[OldSarSwmr]

I'm going to second the Combative Edge M1. I got a chance to meet the owner and handle that knife along with some prototypes. Just a well made good feeling knife in my humble opinion.

 

[LorenzoL]

The SR-1 is indeed bulkier and heavier than an XM-18.
That one would still be my top choice, also considering that it is one of the few folders that you can disassemble without voiding the warranty. Top notch customer service, too.

About that steel lockbar face on the Lionsteel: I do not think the main purpose is to make it easy to replace, but more likely to reduce wear by having a steel/steel interface (actually, steel/carbides on the ramp).

 

[Rob_Angerer]

I'm going to second the Combative Edge M1. I got a chance to meet the owner and handle that knife along with some prototypes. Just a well made good feeling knife in my humble opinion.

I really like the Combative Edge M1 knife. I'm keeping it. But I think it fits in the "defensive folder" category more than in the hard use knife category. I can post a "desktop" review on it at some point. For defensive purposes, I think it's a great design that is up near the CQC8.

 

[Rob_Angerer]

About that steel lockbar face on the Lionsteel: I do not think the main purpose is to make it easy to replace, but more likely to reduce wear by having a steel/steel interface (actually, steel/carbides on the ramp).

I can see that. Hard steel against hard steel... rather than relatively soft titanium against hardened steel. Hopefully they have enough difference in hardness or steel type to avoid galling.

I guess I have the luxury of owning enough folders that I have yet to wear out the liner/frame lock in the sense that enough titanium was worn away that the liner/frame lock overtraveled.

Again, I'd grab a Lionsteel if they come out with a reduced size 3.3" to 3.4" model that is geometrically scaled down, and the weight comes down below 5oz.

 

[quick kill]

If you can find an xm-18 I'd go with that if not then a Strider. good luck

Sorry didn't see there were two other pages before I posted lol....but I did go back and read the rest. And it seems like you have a good group going. I'm shore you can't go wrong with any of the one's you have narrowed down to.

 

[cb4life_30]

How come no love for the Buck/TOPS CSAR-T, it definately qualifies as a hard use knife.

 

[stormbird]

I love my Bucks/Tops. A heavy duty knife at a reasonable price. I suggested one on the first page of this thread

 

[Chris Pierce]

Unless you WANT to spend a lot of money on your work knife. Go buy a Cold Steel Recon 1 or American Lawman, depending on what length blade you want. You could literally buy 10 of them for the cost of some of the custom knives you're looking at. And I REALLY don't think your going to break the knife or lock. And you're not going to accidentally disengage the lock either. They have a lot of travel before the blade moves.

Oh yeah, and they're pretty light weight too.

 

[Jason B.]

Rob, IIRC Thomas posted some pics and a explanation of the process, maybe someone has a link?

From what I remember the parts are cut, bonded, ground, and HT'ed. Thomas also said in testing the bond between was not the first thing to break, as expected. I'm just going by memory here so I could be a little off.

I own a JYD II CB and my bro has the 0350 CB, the last think I worry about is the joint, its basically a weld. Did I mention I love Elmax too

 

[Rob_Angerer]

How come no love for the Buck/TOPS CSAR-T, it definately qualifies as a hard use knife.

One guys opinion only ... YOMV:

Blade: It's a tanto, and not an elegant looking one, that tips speaks of some sort of blunt object, doesn't look much like a knife. Also, has a bunch of unnecessary holes in the blade. But now that I see the weight at 8.6oz, I see why they tried the "drillium" effect.

Design: looks clunky overall... doesn't have any real design flow...

Weight: And it weights 8.6oz. That's very heavy for a pocket clip carry piece, especially one with only a 3.5" blade.

Cache: It's a Buck.

That's a pretty blunt opinion, but it didn't cost you anything either.

 

[Rob_Angerer]

Unless you WANT to spend a lot of money on your work knife.

... uh, yeah, I kinda do. In the sense that I'm going to carry it all day 5 days a week for 2+ years... if I'm lucky, that's ~2.5% of my life... and I'm a knife nut, which is totally impossible to justify, financially. So I won't even try. Life's too short to [fill in blank here=> _____]

Go buy a Cold Steel Recon 1 or American Lawman, ...You could literally buy 10 of them for the cost of some of the custom knives you're looking at... you're not going to accidentally disengage the lock...Oh yeah, and they're pretty light weight too.

Those are decent looking knives that appear to meet all the criteria I set out. Point well made.