advise needed on selection of steel for short sword

That is my understanding as well Steve, but my experience is that it is less prone to rusting than D2, when it is heat treated and given a smooth finish. Before heat treating, it rusts easily.

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Jerry Hossom
www.hossom.com
 
I would consider the details of the sword design and application when determining which blade alloy and heat treatment to use. A simple broad bladed short sword with a strong handle attachment and no fancy contours (such as blade catching notches or cutouts) is a rather moderate mechanical challenge. I would think that even rather thin 5160 with a moderate hardness would work well for a casual user (guy who wants a "real" sword, but isn't going to use it against another sword). If you were involved in repeated heavy blade-to-blade impacts (a lot of simulated combat or time travel) a thicker differentially hardened blade would suffice. The 3v would be most usefull if you wanted to directly attack armor or blades rather than trying to work around them. A 5160 blade would deteriorate more quickly if systematically used against metal. A short sword is not much good against armor unless it is built as a heavy chopper. If it is built that way I would still think that 5160 would do the job, but S3 would look better when you were done.


[This message has been edited by Jeff Clark (edited 06-27-2000).]
 
Tom,

I checked out the WEB site and my 3V short sword from Ed Schott is much cheaper than those pictured. Although, the length is not posted of the swords in that WEB site and I am having a short sword made and not a full sized sword.

It is my feeling that many makers might not switch over to 3V because they are comfortable and skilled with the steels they already use and might even prefer other steel's properties for the knives they make. From what I heard you have to buy 3V in large $ amounts which many knifemakers might not be willing to do for a steel they haven't yet worked with.

You are right about other swords doing the job just fine, but for the connoisseur of fighting blades, they are going to opt for the best steel to the best of their knowledge which will fit the bill for all of the demands they put on a fighting knife or sword and 3V's properties will appeal to them. (Myself included)
 
Hi Donna
I have no doubt that Ed made you a fine sword. Is that the one we saw a picture of in the chat? Knifemakers like Ed and Jerry
and others that are constantly trying to make the best performing blade that they can
are definately a major asset to knife community.
We have way too many of the type that only use ats 34, have the blade heat treated by somebody else etc.etc.
The website is just a quick pick from my bookmarks that maked good beat em ups for a sane price.
But what we're talking about here is simply swords. I do not see v as the wonder steel that will outperform all forged sword blades.
When I see something that in my opinion is overkill or hype I like to point it out.
It's an attempt to keep the steel snobs (with their charts) in check.
 
Hi Tom,
So Ed showed the sword in Chat? Actually I do not have it yet, hopefully I will have it soon.

You bring out a good point about forged blades vs. 3V.

As for Hype, I am with you there, there is nothing I hate more than hype. I have had my own personal bad experiences with purchasing because of Hype only to get rid of the blades later because they didn't live up to the Hype. I was had.

 
Tom,

I don't see anyone saying that if XMAN doesn't get his sword in 3v that it will be a POS. What they are offering is their opinion of what they feel is steel that will give him the most performance. I also wouldn't call Jerry Hossom's opinion hype. He has a lot of experience under his belt, not only owning and using, but working different types of steel. If you would take your blinders off, you would have read that Jerry gave him several choices to pick from. It's clear that you have a problem with CPM-3v, and yet, you choose to attack the person recommending it, instead of giving facts to back up your opinion. I guess that would make YOUR opinion HYPE now wouldn't it??? It seems you have no experience with the steel to even offer a negative opinion about it. Here is a tip that might help you in the future. When you offer an opinion, especially a negative opinion, base it in facts. When you come in to a thread stomping your feet and trying to get attention for yourself, most people look at your opinion as worthless. I hope this helps you out with your future dealings on Bladeforums.
And to Jerry and e_utopia, thanks for not taking the bait and keeping your points based in fact. It sets a good example and shows how much class you two have.

Jim
 
Hunter get your head out of you're asss and read the thread again. Nobody attacked anybody until you decided to do it run your mouth and do it now. Nobody accused anybody of hyping anything.
You're making a bunch of assumptions on posts that you clearly don't seem to understand.
You assume I have someting against 3v.
Where did I say that?
I attacked Jerry. When? That's just another of your incorrect assumptions.
I never questioned Jerrys skill as knifemaker, his sincerity in trying to make the best product that he can or his character in general. In fact i never even said that his choice of steel wasn't a good one. The only purpose I can see in your trying to defend him when he needs no defense is to start trouble.
Facts- I don't see any facts. The whole thread and the posts made in it were all just opinions. All were made in sincerity by the people posting for the purpose of helping the person that started the thread.
With the exception of yours. Which is a direct worthless attack.
What the hell is a negative opinion?
Where did you come up with a stupid line like that?
Opinions are just opinions.
Most of what is posted in the forums is opinions with the exception if trash like your post which was made clearly for the purpose of starting flames.


[This message has been edited by TomW (edited 06-28-2000).]
 
Donna
I guess the picture Ed posted in the chat a few weeks back wasn't your sword.
Please let us see a shot of it when you get it. We're all interested in seeing it.
Since i've got to know Ed I'm getting more interested in his work. If you're going to be at the next NCCA show please bring it so we can get to handle it a bit.
As for hype. It has probably gotten us all at one time or another but what i see is that since most of us don't have to rely on the knife magazines to get our information
or shall I say misinformation, it's getting to be less of a problem.

[This message has been edited by TomW (edited 06-28-2000).]
 
Tom,
Being as big a fan as I am of the Bill of the Rights, I'd never begrudge anyone the right to speak their mind. I'm also confident that JB is fully capable of fighting his own battles. So please don't misinterpret my intentions here. I interject only to ask that you remember that you now have the word "Moderator" appearing under your name. In my opinion (yes it's only an opinion
smile.gif
), a moderator is held to a slightly higher standard of conduct than that which is required of a member. Most of us who've been around here for any period of time are familiar with your sometimes gruff demeanor, and have come to realize that your bark is worse than your bite and that your intentions are good. But while acting this way as a member, your comments only reflected on you as a person (and you never heard complaint one from me, BTW). Now, like it or not, you are a representive of BFC. I think the responsibility that goes along with that demands making more of an effort to inject a measure of civility into your posts. Just my .02, flame away if you like.

------------------
Semper Fi

-Bill
 
Bronc
Have you ever seen the forum where I'm moderator?
There is nothing civil about that forum brother. :-)
 
Seen it? Oh yeah, I see it lots. In fact, it's the reason I go to bed every night saying a quick prayer of thanks that I'm not a member of the Fugowee tribe
smile.gif
smile.gif
.

------------------
Semper Fi

-Bill
 
Tom,

Take a look up. No. Further up than that. Way up there. Do you see those specks up there? Thats Jerry, e_utopia, and me. We're all on the high road. Come on up and see us sometime. I'll show you around.
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Jim
 
TomW, we're not in your forum right now. When I'm eating supper at my grandmother's house, I don't use the same language I do at a barbecue with my friends. Think of this forum as your grandmother's house.
 
Burke
I couldn't care less where you're eating or how you think of the forums. You can forget about dictationg how i think of them. If you and the others learn to stick to the topics, Stop trying to dictate how other people think
and accept their opinions without personal attacks things would run a lot smoother.
Your useless off topic 2 cents worth posted here, like othere, is a classic example of why threads that should offer valuable information and viewpoints become trashed.
I'll continue to post what I believe is valuable info. attempt to bebunk the bunko
and offer opposing viewpoints where I believe is will provide something useful.
You and others like you, I assume, can go about playing post police. Stick your nose where it doesn't belong and in doing so take threads so far off topic that they become useless to the person that asked the question. Before any of you come and run your mouths off and lecture people please
bear in mind that it has nothing to do with the topic and a major waste of resources.
 
Didn't want to get involved, but I have to. Tom, your posts are extremely combative. Take a look at your first three, and last four. That leaves two in the middle which seem civil. This thread was about steel for xman's sword, not your venue to challenge the integrity of the many makers who are all using 3V and loving it. How 3V performs is not hype. It is something any one of us could verify for ourselves. You repeatedly make accusations against Jerry Hossom, whose reputation speaks for itself. So, we have TomW or Jerry Hossom. Hmm..., who probably knows more about knives and swords? Think of it this way, if 3V didn't prove itself to Jerry, why would he be using it, since it is more expensive and more difficult to grind?

I stand by my statements. 5160 would be perfectly acceptable for a sword, but there are otehr steels which would be better. What pocket knife do you carry? Is the blade 440A? Why not? 440 is "all you need," but there are many better things for knife blades. xman say this sword will be 'To be relied upon if called for...', and that is generally an indication that someone is looking for the best, not just "all you need."

Sorry for the long post everyone, but I bent over backwards to be polite to Tom, dispite his attitude problem, and the latest bit of foolishness was just too much. I hope Tom can either show the maturity to act civilly, or ignore this thread so that he doesn't keep cluttering it up.

xman, any thoughts so far, seeing as this was your question to begin with?

--JB

P.S., Tom, as for facts, look back at the last post on the 26th. Those Charpy values are facts, not hype. Your unsopported opinion is, by definition, hype.

------------------
e_utopia@hotmail.com
 
I dont moderate this forum but if I did I would tell all of you guys that the place for this beef is the Whine and Cheese Forum. Tom, you moderate the Whine and Cheese Forum, isn't that what it is for? Hell, you can even flame each other there.

Eutopia,
As for Tom's feelings about 3V being hype I think I clarified to him in my post about why makers were not running to it and why certain customers including myself were demanding it. He then came on in a very differant tone and even commended Jerry for being one of the knifemakers who wasn't afraid to venture out from other steels. But, with the properties of the steel it is easy for them to get hyped or for the properties to be viewed as hyped.
I think that some of you guys are too sensetive.

Tom,
There is no doubt that you are abrupt, and can even be caustic, but, it seems to be your personality to tell it like it is and I personally think that what you have to say at times might not be viewed as flowing with the general opinion but important none-the-less.
I think the inappropriate statement was when you called Jerry "the mighty knifemaker." And again if you have a beef does'nt this belong in your forum?
 
NO NO NO NO TOM!

You keep taking a wrong turn. I guess I'm going to have to give you directions. You first need to climb out of the PIT OF DESPAIR. Then keep going until you reach DISAPPOINTMENT GULCH. Take a right. Now this is where a lot of people turn around so stick with it. They don't call this road ENDLESS DRIBBLE for nothing. Now, when you get to the end of ENDLESS DRIBBLE, you'll see a sign that says, "I'D TURN AROUND IF I WERE YOU". Pay no attention to it. You have to keep going. Just past the sign you will see LAKE GRUFF AND GRUMBLY. Don't be fooled by the cutsie name and think this is a nice lake. It's mean and nasty! Now you need to pay the man standing there 25 schillings and he will let you "ride the Ferry". You've done that before so I don't need to explain. Now keep going until you cross CRABASS CREEK and enter THE POINT OF NO RETURN. Now this is where you need to make sure you know what you are doing. If you take a wrong turn, you could end up in the DISGRUNTLED QUAGMIRE. But if you keep going, you are going to encounter SMILEY FACE STREAM, BEST FRIEND BROOK, and THE MEADOW OF FRIENDSHIP. If you drink the sweet water and eat some of the flowers you will be changed forever. Now it's just a short gondola ride up and through I'M SORRY PASS and you have reached the HIGH ROAD!!!! Trust me, it's well worth the trouble it takes. Come on over to my place and I'll throw a couple slabs on the grill and we'll have a couple of beers and I'll take you on the grand tour.
smile.gif
smile.gif
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Let me know if you want some company. If I can break the secret code, I know of a place where I might be able to find some other people who want to take the HIGH ROAD. I'm not sure if I can get in though, they seem to be really embarrassed about what they do in their and they have put a lock on the place that people on the HIGH ROAD can't seem to find the key for. But I'll keep trying and let you know. Try a couple Tom-
smile.gif
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They help ease your way to the HIGH ROAD.

Take care Tom,

Jim

p.s.- The slabs are in the freezer and the beer will be on ice out on the back deck. Help yourself. Be sure to bring your fishing pole 'cause I'm sure to be out on the lake when you get here.
 
I'll pass on the HIGH ROAD. Whatever it is that you're on that makes you write such stupidity I don't want.
 
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