Aftermarket in the Toilet?

come on Severed you already knew that. LOL

Then again furniture stores stay open for years "Going out of Business". LOL

Kevin you and Lorien are confusing the readers. Ok, maybe it's just me!

Kevin, First 2008 is a great year for custom knives.

Then Lorien starts this thread Custom Knives are in the toilet because of a bad economy!!!

Now you're saying that because the economy is so bad that some people may look to custom knives as a place to "park their money" till times get better???

Then again perhaps it may be that makers who charge a fair price, offer a good/great value, listen to their customers and at least have some business sense will do fine.

I wish you guys would make up your mind...I was just working on my resume...

:D

thanks again Les, I always enjoy your refreshing view on this stuff.
 
Bad idea for the aftermarket , but not so bad for the maker who has to eat and pay bills. Perhaps there will be more makers making user grade knives ? ( just a guess...ok maybe wishful thinking ).

As long as the maker is getting enough profit to eat and pay the bills. I don't know too many makers that could afford to significantly drop their prices.

Another problem that could arise is that the maker could end up losing dealers and customers. If a maker sells knives to the general public for the same or a lower price than he sold to his dealers, that is going to burn some bridges with dealers. If the maker starts selling a knife for $300.00 that he used to sell for $400.00, that maker is going to anger past customers that paid the higher price. In the long run, I don't think it would be good for the maker. About the only people it would really benefit would be those customers that are looking to get knives at lower prices.

If people aren't purchasing as many fancy, high grade knives, then it is very likely that makers are going to have to supply more working grade knives. Makers will have to adjust to the market, or figure out how to create a new one for their higher end knives.
 
Kevin you and Lorien are confusing the readers. Ok, maybe it's just me!

Kevin, First 2008 is a great year for custom knives.

Hi Les, I stand by my statement in a previous thread that 2008 is a great year for custom knives. If you re-read my reasons why (below) you will fine I do not reference the economy or knife sales anywhere. :
I probably haven't been into custom knives long enough to really know, however I feel 2008 has been a GREAT year for custom knives.

Blade Show was off the charts as compared to all others I have been to. A lot of absolutely outstanding knives have already been introduced this year and we are only just past 1/2 way.

The CKCA is going extremely well. Just kicked off our membership June first and are already very close to 100* members in six countries.

Both the ABS and Guild are making big commitments in moving their shows to new cities. There are a few new shows popping up including the new "small invitational shows". I see Edmund's and Tim's Darom books being very positive for the community.


Then Lorien starts this thread Custom Knives are in the toilet because of a bad economy!!!

Now you're saying that because the economy is so bad that some people may look to custom knives as a place to "park their money" till times get better???
Les, where did I say because the economy is so bad people may look to custom knives to park their money? :confused:
As some had stated above that the bad financial markets may hurt collectible knife sales I was merely pointing out that some collectibles actually benefit from a poor stock market in much the same way gold can benefit.


Then again perhaps it may be that makers who charge a fair price, offer a good/great value, listen to their customers and at least have some business sense will do fine.

I agree.

I wish you guys would make up your mind...I was just working on my resume...
Haven't changed my mind, you are just changing what I have said. ;) I agree that the bad economy will most likely affect custom knife sales this year, however I also believe there's many positive things happening in the custom knife industry which in the end will reflect positively.
:D
*********************
 
Bad idea for the aftermarket , but not so bad for the maker who has to eat and pay bills. Perhaps there will be more makers making user grade knives ? ( just a guess...ok maybe wishful thinking ).

Good for the maker? Maybe in the very immediate short term. But let's say Maker X decides to drop his prices 25% "to move product" and on account "the current economic situation". Now, Collector A, who has accumulated 10 pieces by Maker X (his favourite maker) has just seen his entire collection devalued by 25%. He's not happy. Think he's going to add any more pieces? I don't. Now how about all of Maker X's other former customers?

A maker who will "do whatever it takes to move product" is not a maker I am particularly keen to work with.

Of course makers need to pay bills like all of us. But if they're in it for the long haul, and particularly if they're relying on their knife income to pay all or most of those bills, they have to smart about responding to changes in the economic climate.

First of all - an economic downturn won't affect all makers in the same way. The maker has to evaluate their market position, their product and price range and understand their target customers. For some - moving to a higher concentration of upmarket pieces might actually be a better response. He'd be playing to a smaller, but generally more recession-resilient client base. For others, it might mean trying to expand the lower tier of their range. But playing the Wall-Mart dropping prices game is almost universally going to hurt a custom maker in the long (and likely not-so-long) term.

Roger
 
I agree Roger.
A maker could permanently ruin their business by over adjusting to get through this down cycle.
 
The prompt for this thread came over the course of following the classifieds in here, and seeing that semi custom/short run production knives were taking a nose dive in the aftermarket. Primarily Chris Reeve, William Henry and Busse Combat. Seeing the change here is easy due to these companies having 'suggested retail' pricing. Could be there was an 'aftermarket bubble'?

I'm scratching my head here.:confused:

I saw exactly three W-H for sale in the last month here, and 1 was withdrawn....1 is still for sale by a maker, who probably took it in on trade, and can afford a price reduction, and I don't know what to tell you about the other one, but if I had seen it first, I would have purchased it for the mid 200's that it went for.

Busse knives ebb and flow like everything else and so do CRK, primarily due to supply and demand......as well as.....wait for it......piece, maker, price....learn it, live it, love it!

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
RogerP:
great points...you are certainly more in touch with it than I am , I have enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts on this thread.

my thinking was if the maker was on the verge of losing his house or something , he might lower prices if they were not selling , though more likely just make knives with more common materials , say stabilized wood vs top grade stag , ivory , etc , in the interim does make sense

I do agree , in the long run , it would come back to hurt the maker , I was thinking more along the lines of getting to the point of closing shop.
 
It was the classifieds, mostly, that first drew me to BF in '05. It's been since then that I've noticed decline. Well not precisely since '05, but maybe in '06 some time. The most amount of decline I've been perceiving has happened over the past year or so.
According to tourism statistics I've seen, Americans travel less in election years during any other time. Perhaps it is this 4 year cycle I'm tweaking to. Or, the voices in my head;) Do people's spending habits generally change during election years?
But seriously, it is fairly apparent that things are in a state of flux, and I agree with everyone who's stated that changing your business practices drastically during changing times is a good way to get yourself into trouble.
 
severed, I hope you are getting some discounts. ;) :D :D :D



Nope no discounts. I have never purchased a knife from Les. I just call it how I see it. Anytime I have ever emailed Les for advice he has always replied promptly and his advice has always been spot on.
 
Yes, please, everyone - be afraid, be scared out of your wits - so much that you go out and sell your best knives at low prices - to me.

All the doom and gloom. Sure there's going to be some negative effect - and with it comes buying opportunities.
 
Yes, please, everyone - be afraid, be scared out of your wits - so much that you go out and sell your best knives at low prices - to me.

All the doom and gloom. Sure there's going to be some negative effect - and with it comes buying opportunities.


It's not about knives that crossed my mind. It's about how many people will lose jobs, cannot afford health care and youngster can't go to college.
 
It's not about knives that crossed my mind. It's about how many people will lose jobs, cannot afford health care and youngster can't go to college.

It appears that some people here are pretty flip and comically delusional about the magnitude of what is happening in this financial crisis and the impact it's going to have on the vast majority of people.

To me, it's not as pathetic to watch the orchestra continue to play music while the ship sinks as it is to witness the inability of some to realize that it is sinking.

Oh sure, we'll get through it as is always the case in any crisis, but IMO it's going to be a long haul and a vice grip hold on the nuts of a lot of folks for quite awhile.
 
RWS, the orchestra playing, ship sinking metaphor is so apropos and more melodramatic than the buying up panic-market knives while Rome burns metaphor.

The reassuring words that this one (economic dip) will be like all the rest (speed bump correction) rings hollow because of creeping cultural disintegration rooted in the Postmodern mindset, which trumpet relativism and meaninglessness, euphemisms for tearing down moral fences and anarchy.

The current crisis is a moral one, holistic greed--greed on Wall Street, Mainstreet, and Washington. Old America knew greed, but not at this magnitude. Old America and new (secular) America (from the cultural revolt of the 1960s) are estranged, and this crisis would not have occurred in old America. Further, since American's have never been saddled with debt as they are today, downturns potentially wreak deeper, longer devastation. What's more, the peril is a blindspot, which comes as no surprise since Jerusalem, Athens, Rome, and London had no clue or paid no heed to when their sky was falling.

This may be a major, if not seminal, litmus test for secular America, and we shall see just how relative and meaningless economic chaos can be and whether there be any moral leaders left.

ken
 
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