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Aftermarket in the Toilet?
- Thread starter Lorien
- Start date
Les Robertson
BANNED
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Dateline Chicago IL.
In what many see as a stunning move today is not that President Elect Obama has fingered Rham Emanuel (D-IL) to be his Chief-Of-Staff.
No, it is that at this hour Emanuel is in a closed session meeting with Ben Bernake and Henry Paulson discussing a possible bail out of the custom knife aftermarket.
Further details to follow........
In what many see as a stunning move today is not that President Elect Obama has fingered Rham Emanuel (D-IL) to be his Chief-Of-Staff.
No, it is that at this hour Emanuel is in a closed session meeting with Ben Bernake and Henry Paulson discussing a possible bail out of the custom knife aftermarket.
Further details to follow........
Isnt that who Samuel L. Jackson quoted right before he wacked a MF in Pulp Fiction ??
sorry bro, couldnt resist...
but really, this is getting waaaay too serious and almost morbid for me.
the one post was right on, knife collecting is supposed to be fun.
im out.
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Well, all I can say is that I hope that the custom knife market, and that the cutlery industry in general is able to continue growing given the political change which has occurred. I know that many people who are into guns and knives are very worried about it, as well they should be. But time will tell.
Perhaps there should be some consideration made in presenting President Elect Obama with a special, custom handmade knife, as a gift in some media event. Perhaps his acceptance of such a gift would be construed as a conciliatory gesture toward his Republican colleagues and to those who share the Republican ideals, depending on the context.
Getting custom knives into the media as meaningful tokens between powerful parties would be a great way for the custom knife community to break out into new realms. Replace some of the stigma associated with the martial usages of a knife, with that of artistic appreciation, cultural symbolism and the use of such as an every day tool.
I propose that the foremost minds of the custom knife community develop a strategy whereby the politics of knives shifts toward those usages mentioned above.
Just floating that out there. I type as I think.
And, yes, ingenuous.
Perhaps there should be some consideration made in presenting President Elect Obama with a special, custom handmade knife, as a gift in some media event. Perhaps his acceptance of such a gift would be construed as a conciliatory gesture toward his Republican colleagues and to those who share the Republican ideals, depending on the context.
Getting custom knives into the media as meaningful tokens between powerful parties would be a great way for the custom knife community to break out into new realms. Replace some of the stigma associated with the martial usages of a knife, with that of artistic appreciation, cultural symbolism and the use of such as an every day tool.
I propose that the foremost minds of the custom knife community develop a strategy whereby the politics of knives shifts toward those usages mentioned above.
Just floating that out there. I type as I think.
And, yes, ingenuous.- Joined
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The aftermarket has been fine while the general market has been sliding. The market survived President Carter and will survive a President Obama, in what shape, is the question.
Bruce will tell those who ask what happened when Carter was in Power and perhaps Les will as well. You can expect worse. Ride it out and learn.
Bruce will tell those who ask what happened when Carter was in Power and perhaps Les will as well. You can expect worse. Ride it out and learn.
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The below is an excerpt from a global e-mail Paul Shindler (Knife Legends) just sent out.
I copy it here as I believe it's relevant and probably the result of the subject's discussion here.
Important Please Read: Speaking of Special Values, some folks have mentioned to me that the addition of a Special Values page at KnifeLegends sparks concerns about a slump in the custom knife business - but nothing could be farther from the truth.
In 2007 we had an incredible year, and in 2008 we are about 20% ahead of that - including the three months of August, September and October. For November we are off to our best start ever!
Cross my heart and hope to die.
The Special Values page is simply an experiment by me to move a number of knives I've had in inventory for a long time. As we are heading into the peak buying season I would like to go to the upcomming shows with as much money as possible to buy cool new stuff for the site. And so far the response has been excellent. We've sold 15 special value knives in a about a week and a half - which exceeded my expectations.
And just to you know - most likely I will return the knives to their original prices at the end of December depending on how the experiment goes. So if there is something you like don't get caught napping - because once they are gone they are gone!
All the best. Paul.....
I copy it here as I believe it's relevant and probably the result of the subject's discussion here.
Important Please Read: Speaking of Special Values, some folks have mentioned to me that the addition of a Special Values page at KnifeLegends sparks concerns about a slump in the custom knife business - but nothing could be farther from the truth.
In 2007 we had an incredible year, and in 2008 we are about 20% ahead of that - including the three months of August, September and October. For November we are off to our best start ever!
Cross my heart and hope to die.
The Special Values page is simply an experiment by me to move a number of knives I've had in inventory for a long time. As we are heading into the peak buying season I would like to go to the upcomming shows with as much money as possible to buy cool new stuff for the site. And so far the response has been excellent. We've sold 15 special value knives in a about a week and a half - which exceeded my expectations.
And just to you know - most likely I will return the knives to their original prices at the end of December depending on how the experiment goes. So if there is something you like don't get caught napping - because once they are gone they are gone!
All the best. Paul.....
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I really don't know much about the market. Being a maker and not a collector of dealer, I do not see the ups and downs on a daily basis. What I do know that orders for Lovett knives are so strong that I have had to stop taking orders other than long time regular customers. I have been completely overwhelmed as of late.
At last count, I was over 8 years behind on orders. But that was well over a year ago. Closer to two. I am afraid to even look at the time frame now.
The prices have been going crazy in the aftermarket for Lovett's. Especially the Lovett-Loveless Connection Knives. If there is a slump the Custom Knife market, and I don't doubt that there is, I am not seeing it her at the Lovett Shop. In fact, it is exactly the opposite!
I cannot imagine where or how so many people hear of The Lovett-Loveless connection Knives. I do not advertise. Nor do I solicit orders. I do know that I get orders from customers who call the Loveless Shop in Riverside. Bob has sent me quite a few very good customers, as the Loveless Shop has quit taking orders for the most part. It is quite an honor to work with customers sent directly from Loveless Shop in Riverside. But the list is getting LONG!!!
M. Lovett
At last count, I was over 8 years behind on orders. But that was well over a year ago. Closer to two. I am afraid to even look at the time frame now.
The prices have been going crazy in the aftermarket for Lovett's. Especially the Lovett-Loveless Connection Knives. If there is a slump the Custom Knife market, and I don't doubt that there is, I am not seeing it her at the Lovett Shop. In fact, it is exactly the opposite!
I cannot imagine where or how so many people hear of The Lovett-Loveless connection Knives. I do not advertise. Nor do I solicit orders. I do know that I get orders from customers who call the Loveless Shop in Riverside. Bob has sent me quite a few very good customers, as the Loveless Shop has quit taking orders for the most part. It is quite an honor to work with customers sent directly from Loveless Shop in Riverside. But the list is getting LONG!!!
M. Lovett
bandaidman
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it is interesting to read how some express concern that any negative comments will drive away some folks and hurt the market.
a fundamentally strong market should remain resilient despite postings on an internet board
it is also interesting how others state that the market remains strong, yet are having sales of slow moving merchandise
others concede the "general market is sliding" the aftermarket remains "fine." i do not understand this statement
while i hope that the custom knife market will remain strong, just wishing it so will not make it so
it comes down to fundamentals
who buys the knives? is the number growing or shrinking? is the overall amount spent growing or shrinking?
how are their finances doing?
and last but not least
why do they buy knives?
people who really enjoy the hobby will continue to do so if they can afford it. the great depression did not end all discretionary buying of luxury goods and this current economic slump will not either
however i think it will have a significant impact on those who wish to do it for profit
a fundamentally strong market should remain resilient despite postings on an internet board
it is also interesting how others state that the market remains strong, yet are having sales of slow moving merchandise
others concede the "general market is sliding" the aftermarket remains "fine." i do not understand this statement
while i hope that the custom knife market will remain strong, just wishing it so will not make it so
it comes down to fundamentals
who buys the knives? is the number growing or shrinking? is the overall amount spent growing or shrinking?
how are their finances doing?
and last but not least
why do they buy knives?
people who really enjoy the hobby will continue to do so if they can afford it. the great depression did not end all discretionary buying of luxury goods and this current economic slump will not either
however i think it will have a significant impact on those who wish to do it for profit
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ding ding ding! I agree. All this oh you havent been in the market for 500 years like I have is a bunch of bullshit. Sure the market has peaks and valleys and high priced makers have a correction but that does not mean that the aftermarket isnt hurting now. It is in a slump. To listen to some of these guys talk one would think the after market never has any problems.
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The aftermarket for quality (and I mean real quality) multiblades is in fact in da toilet.
I find myself having to pay a lot more for them if I am lucky enough to find them before someone else snatches them up.
.
I find myself having to pay a lot more for them if I am lucky enough to find them before someone else snatches them up.
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Mike, You can take it for what it is worth. When Carter became presideng Buster had an eight year backlog and after about a year it just evaporated. He called every person on it and they all wiggled off the hook. This, of course could never happen to such as you, but lesser mortals minght give some thought to a little history and be prepared for what might happen to them.
The aftermarket for quality (and I mean real quality) multiblades is in fact in da toilet.
I find myself having to pay a lot more for them if I am lucky enough to find them before someone else snatches them up.
TRUE. What makers are you buying when you can find them??
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I'm fairly sure that no current forumite has ever died. I've accumulated 66 deathless years. My grandfather died, though, but he doesn't count because he died of a self-inflicted gunshot to the head a few days after he had lost all in the events precipitating the Depression.
The trouble with America is bad theology. America's glory was always rooted in her church/state separation, as opposed to old England, Rome, etc. The decisive turning point of America was the Supreme Court's church/state separation doctrine. Unwittingly, they achieved the converse, whereas the traditional, separated church was privatized in preference to embrace the Humanist church, which pours forth its state- sponsored religious doctrine in public classrooms across the land. Now post-modernism rules, and the typical American believes he is the measure of all things because there is no meaning or purpose in blank materialism i.e., evolution.
Behavior is a function of belief. Depravity has always been with us, but institutionalized depravity like we've witnessed with the credit crisis is new--individuals borrowing beyond their means, banks leveraged beyond their means, and the state brokering unwise lending and borrowing and spending, themselves, way beyond its means. Now our new state religion has us electing for the first time in history a hard left liberal, post modernist and bowing to our new lord--Big Government ... hoping for the only solution that bad theology can muster--Big Government bailout for self-inflicted folly, enslaving us to an ever enlarging Big Government, increasingly unable to solve compounded, folly-driven conundrums endemic to our secular ethos.
"Government is the problem, not the cure," is Reagan's poignant reminder of our plight. But more to the eschatological point, is Schaeffer's sobering rejoinder to post-modern triumphalism--"Bad theology kills."
For you who find a silver-lining, I'm sincerely happy for you, but I hope your analysis runs deeper than your immediate circumstances. As for me, I'm heading over to the Idaho Panhandle for 2 weeks of chasing slippery whitetails while celebrating that my hopes are pinned on something more than Obama's (or McCain's) sufficiency and that my government has not yet outlawed hunting (the way they did trapping) or come for my knives and rifles.
Prophet of hope,
ken
The trouble with America is bad theology. America's glory was always rooted in her church/state separation, as opposed to old England, Rome, etc. The decisive turning point of America was the Supreme Court's church/state separation doctrine. Unwittingly, they achieved the converse, whereas the traditional, separated church was privatized in preference to embrace the Humanist church, which pours forth its state- sponsored religious doctrine in public classrooms across the land. Now post-modernism rules, and the typical American believes he is the measure of all things because there is no meaning or purpose in blank materialism i.e., evolution.
Behavior is a function of belief. Depravity has always been with us, but institutionalized depravity like we've witnessed with the credit crisis is new--individuals borrowing beyond their means, banks leveraged beyond their means, and the state brokering unwise lending and borrowing and spending, themselves, way beyond its means. Now our new state religion has us electing for the first time in history a hard left liberal, post modernist and bowing to our new lord--Big Government ... hoping for the only solution that bad theology can muster--Big Government bailout for self-inflicted folly, enslaving us to an ever enlarging Big Government, increasingly unable to solve compounded, folly-driven conundrums endemic to our secular ethos.
"Government is the problem, not the cure," is Reagan's poignant reminder of our plight. But more to the eschatological point, is Schaeffer's sobering rejoinder to post-modern triumphalism--"Bad theology kills."
For you who find a silver-lining, I'm sincerely happy for you, but I hope your analysis runs deeper than your immediate circumstances. As for me, I'm heading over to the Idaho Panhandle for 2 weeks of chasing slippery whitetails while celebrating that my hopes are pinned on something more than Obama's (or McCain's) sufficiency and that my government has not yet outlawed hunting (the way they did trapping) or come for my knives and rifles.
Prophet of hope,
ken
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Mike, if you don't mind my asking, approximately how many knives do you make in a year?
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Thank you so much AG. You are always so kind to me! I am more mortal than most. But I don't live for politics. Things cannot always be wonderful. You cannot have the good with out a bit of bad thrown in. And I've had more than my share of bad over the years. If you don't mind too terribly, I would like to at least try enjoy just a little of the good just to see what it's like. Living good never seemed to bother you!
Hi. Kevin. It depends on what modes I am working on mostly for the year. That and my health. I still have ups and downs. I was a little over 50 so far this year before the eminent domain move hit. I'm having to spend way too much time away from the shop.
I would like to see 75 for the year. At least that was the goal. Looks like the move is going to put a stop to those plans.
When I am working on Big Bears, its like hitting the breaks. It use to take me two weeks to build one. Jim Merritt at the Loveless Shop really helped me out on them. Now It takes about a LONG week!
Hi. Kevin. It depends on what modes I am working on mostly for the year. That and my health. I still have ups and downs. I was a little over 50 so far this year before the eminent domain move hit. I'm having to spend way too much time away from the shop.
I would like to see 75 for the year. At least that was the goal. Looks like the move is going to put a stop to those plans.
When I am working on Big Bears, its like hitting the breaks. It use to take me two weeks to build one. Jim Merritt at the Loveless Shop really helped me out on them. Now It takes about a LONG week!
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- 12,072
Excellent point, Ken.
IMO, most every market is suffering from this collapse. The magnitude of the things that have happened in the economy both here and throughout the world seem to be, for whatever reason, ignored by some or perhaps written off as just another cyclical blip in the economy that will somehow correct itself in the near term as it always has. Maybe it's because it hasn't personally hit them yet.
The facts are the events that have taken place in America, and globally, are catastrophic and are getting worse and affecting more and more people each day from both a business and personal financial standpoint. Everyone will be affected by this.
With all that crap said, Americans are fighters and we will eventually get out of this situation we're in, but it will get messy and it will take quite a while .