+1......
almost super sharp..not quite..i need to get there
- Thread starter steeltowninwv
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+1......
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We're talking shaving here. Not grass-cutting.
As normally applies to 'shaving', pinching the hair against the skin is EXACTLY what I'm referring to (and I even spelled that out in my post; it helps to actually read it). When the sharp edge of the burr pinches the hair against the skin (as happens when the burr curls down into the skin), it cuts it. Simple.
Sometimes, hair can indeed be 'tree-topped' when catching the upward-curling edge of the burr (away from the skin, without pinching). But that's not usually the result in testing shaving on one's arms, looking for obvious signs of burring, as the OP has done.
It's easy to tell when the hair is 'pinched' against the skin by the sharp edge of a downward-leaning burr, as it sometimes cuts the skin as well.
BTW, my own arm hair tends to lay down almost flush to the skin; so it's obvious which way the burr leans, when it cuts those hairs. The theory that an upward-curling burr would catch the hairs just won't fly, on my arms, most of the time. No parallels to cutting tall grass with a scythe, at all.
David
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chiral.grolim
Universal Kydex Sheath Extension
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I did read, and geometry works the same regardless, and while the scale of grass (or wood for that matter) is larger than your or anyone else's arm-hair, the principle is exactly the same because it is based on geometry and physics. A burr can "shave" when the apex curves upward, it can only "scrape" (and poorly) when curved downward.
From the OP post#3:
Shaving smooth indicates an upward-curved burr because the apex is able to lift into the hairs and cut them without scraping exactly the same way a scythe blade lifts & cuts grass. Struggling indicates the "pinching" you describe. Clear?
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The phenomenon the OP describes still exactly indicates a burr that leans to one side; this is the jist of the problem he's seeing. The 'scraping' and strugging indicates it's a relatively weak/fine one, likely being folded under against the skin. A slightly stiffer burr would behave in an opposite manner (not folding under) most of the time, and will catch ('pinch') the hair against the skin and clip it off. The specifics of which way the hair leans or lays against the skin, and how that relates to whether the edge is moving underneath them (lifting them and cutting from below with the upward-curling burr's edge), or over them (trapping them against the skin and cutting from above with a downward-arcing burr), are the only thing making the difference, in this case. So far as the edge is concerned, the cause is exactly the same thing, as is the fix for it.
The OP asked what is causing the difference seen in side-vs-side behavior of the edge as it cuts. The answer is, "It's a burr, which leans to one side." And the fix is removing the burr, to which many suggestions have been given.
David
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chiral.grolim
Universal Kydex Sheath Extension
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I think that this guy is right :thumbup:
To the OP, I am curious how high you raise the spine of the blade from your arm to try and make the edge shave? Also, if you have a magnifying glass and a red marker, try using that to help you visualize the burr and how close to the apex you are getting with each pass on the rods. You must grind until absolutely NO marker remains. Maybe this has already been said.
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People like you are the reason I must correct new sharpeners all the time and re-explain what sharpening is. For that, I thank your ignorance.
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yes I do the sharpie trick....no sharpie left on the the edge...there will still be some on the bevel higher up from the edge
People like you are the reason I started Boxing when I was 12. As to my ignorance, well, lets just say that I do things someone like you only dreams about.
Like land, and property, hunting clubs, and a trucking company with a fleet of 226 trucks. I do things like build lakes in my back yard. Target shooting with the finest .22's money can buy.
You can often find me on rivers and lakes , bass fishing in a finely crafted bass boat fashioned by Mr. Darris Allison. Or racing sport bikes at a drag strip, and lots of other things that us ignorant people do, while you sit on a forum being the expert on knife sharpening, winning friends and influencing people. It is people like you who made me what I am today.
For that, I thank your arrogance.
PS, knife sharpening isn't rocket science. Cave men did it with rocks. To this end, you are what you are and do what you "must."
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It aint bragging if it's true.
A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.
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well u guys that are arguing can just have this thread..seeming how u took it over....im more confused now than ever
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First of all, the OP's problem was that his knife could not shave equally well on both sides. You and Kyledf said the problem was an asymmetrical bevel.
There's your answer. My video showed that an asymmetrical bevel can shave equally well with both sides.
Now your saying that the cut angle is the problem. If that's true then the OP can just change the cut angle when he shaves and that should fix the problem, if the asymmetrical bevel is the only problem.
Now OTOH, is the problem is indeed a burr that folded over, no amount of changing the cut angle will improve the shaving on the side that shaves less well. The symptoms of the OP's knife indicate an apex that isn't formed well.
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I am sorry if I caused any derailing of this thread but it wasn't on the right track anyways.
The original advice about it being a burr is your problem.
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Jason B is an professional sharpener, he knows what he's talking about. He sharpens knives that most of us can only dream about. OWE is another guy that can write definitive books about sharpening. if you don't trust me, trust them. Another indicator is the attitude. Look at the maturity of the posters. Try to discern the posts that merely seek to inform vs. the posts that are immature and seek just to blow the poster's horn.
One test will prove it one way or the other. If that other guy is right, changing the cut angle when you shave will solve your problem. If it doesn't, then he's wrong about why your knife doesn't shave equally well with both sides.
severtecher
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Waaaaaaaa!
I am thinking both of you guys got shit that stank. Have that knife professionally sharpened and use the Sharpmaker for weekly touch up. Now thats some genius thinkin right there.:~)
I am thinking both of you guys got shit that stank. Have that knife professionally sharpened and use the Sharpmaker for weekly touch up. Now thats some genius thinkin right there.:~)
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So how would you have responded to the OP's post?
Except for this, which you seem to have missed, sir.
Now unless the OP has two left arms and one right hand............the obvious has already been pointed out.
He is shaving in the direction the hair is laying one way, then flipping the knife and shaving against the direction the hair is laying.
This was pointed out 5 posts ago or more.
As to you, I have nothing against you. You seem to be a decent guy trying to help. Even your video proves that you go out of your way to help. Even if it was made in attempt to humiliate.
You've not gotten overly nasty, nor did I find your video offensive in any manner. I found it to be a good tutorial.
As to Jason B. and his knife sharpening prowess. Anyone can sharpen a knife. Cave men sharpened rocks.
He didn't come down from the mountain holding the ten commandments nor will he receive an Oscar nomination, a purple heart, and last but not least, the congressional medal of honor. He can sharpen a Knife. That's about it. You may place him on a golden pedestal if you wish.
If I were you I wouldn't sell myself short on my abilities. My guess is that all things equal, you can sharpen a knife as well as he.
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So basically the OP really had no problem? Not even an asymmetrical edge? That's really funny after all this.
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Let's approach from a different perspective, putting the shaving irregularities aside for the moment. How does the edge behave when cutting thin/fine paper, like phonebook pages, newsprint, etc? If a burr is there, you'll likely see some snagging or grabbing while SLOWLY slicing heel-to-tip through the paper; a burr on the edge, assuming it's leaning one way or another, will interrupt the smooth cutting in the paper.
Following that test, draw the edge through a piece of wood (hopefully clean, to minimize complications caused by abrasive dirt in/on the wood). See how the above paper-cutting test performs again, after doing this. If the edge was at least cutting the paper previously, possibly with a little snagging, and that behavior changes noticeably after drawing the edge through the wood, that's a strong indicator the burr has moved or rolled or broken/fractured along the edge. For example, if you find it's not cutting paper at all anymore, that's a clue the burr has completely rolled over or stripped away, leaving a rough or bluntish edge behind. Another example: If you're lucky, you might see cutting improve, with less snagging or perhaps none, with the edge slicing more effortlessly through the paper, indicating you were already VERY close to a good edge anyway, with just a fine burr getting in the way and subsequently stripping off in the wood; sometimes that's all it takes to wrap it up.
If, after drawing the edge through the wood, you don't see any change at all (still cutting the fine paper, albeit somewhat roughly), that's an indication a burr is still there, but it's thicker & tougher, and needs more aggressive burr-removal methods. This is where a denim strop with good AlOx compound really excels; and it'll even refine the edge further, if used carefully.
(This mess is a LOT simpler than much of the WAY overcomplicated 'advice' given so far in this thread. You didn't ask for such distraction, and you shouldn't have to put up with it, either.)
David
I tried to tell you several posts ago. lol
You think I should make an " eat crow" video now?
lololol
PS, you're an alright guy singularity.......if Ive offended you, I apologize.
OHHHH AND, I liked the video.
I about fell out of my chair.......I was like , oh boy here we go.....
Then the video came on............" Ohhh look we have here, a chisel grind knife"
lol
well done.
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