almost super sharp..not quite..i need to get there

[singularity35]

I tried to tell you several posts ago. lol

You think I should make an " eat crow" video now?

lololol

PS, you're an alright guy singularity.......if Ive offended you, I apologize.
OHHHH AND, I liked the video.
I about fell out of my chair.......I was like , oh boy here we go.....
Then the video came on............" Ohhh look we have here, a chisel grind knife"
lol

well done.

Not really, you didn't. Both you and Kyledf said that the problem was an asymmetrical bevel. The video was in response to your posts.

 

[IXLR8]

Not really, you didn't.

lol..im a beginner so bare with me....I can tell with my finger when I have the edge pointing up...the right side seems sharper..than the left...when I try and shve with it...knife in my right hand shaving down my left arm..it shaves smooth...then trying to shave upwards on my left arm it struggles to shave.......

It's not a burr.

Now the other thing you may not be taking into account is the shaving aspect of all this. AND NONE OF US THOUGHT ABOUT THIS
When you shave a hair in the direction the hair is laying naturally, it will shave better. Once you flip the knife and shave against the direction the hair is laying......it should still shave, but not as efficiently. So before this goes any further...........switch hands and shave both arms in the direction the hair is laying.
If it shaves one arm more cleanly than the other, or you have to make more passes to achieve the same result as the opposite arm.........you have an edge geometry problem.

You may not have thought of it but most of us have. When the OP shifts sides, then he's shaving his other arm in the same direction as when he used his other hand to shave his other arm.

Yes I did try to tell you. lol.
Time to make a video.
lol

 

[singularity35]

A bevel is a bevel. So let's take chisel ground knives, say an emerson, will one side be sharper than the other?

Yes of course it will.

Hehehe, here was what the vid was for.

But we were arguing about the problem. You never did say there wasn't a problem. All you said was that there wasn't a burr and that the problem was caused by an asymmetrical bevel.

Should I now make another vid about how an asymmetrical knife can shave up and down one arm?

 

[IXLR8]

Hehehe, here was what the vid was for.

But we were arguing about the problem. You never did say there wasn't a problem. All you said was that there wasn't a burr and that the problem was caused by an asymmetrical bevel.

I had to go back and read the OPS explanation twice. lol. I didn't notice it either, the first time I red it.
I was on the bandwagon with everyone else trying to be right about everything.
Then I was like........WAIT A MINUTE.........did I just read that?
EUREKA!

It was like one of those old cartoons where Wile E. Coyote is trying to blow up the Road Runner and he suddenly had an idea............and a light bulb comes on above his head.
My Einstein moment,if you will.
lol

 

[singularity35]

I had to go back and read the OPS explanation twice. lol. I didn't notice it either, the first time I red it.
I was on the bandwagon with everyone else trying to be right about everything.
Then I was like........WAIT A MINUTE.........did I just read that?
EUREKA!

It was like one of those old cartoons where Wile E. Coyote is trying to blow up the Road Runner and he suddenly had an idea............and a light bulb comes on above his head.
My Einstein moment,if you will.
lol

I'm enjoying this even more now. Let's argue more. Us Flips, like a good argument.

Ok, now let's forget about the OP's problem and focus on what we were arguing about. Namely that if a knife shaves better on one side than on the other going down an arm, then the problem is a burr, not an asymmetrical grind.

Another indicator of a burr is a knife feeling sharper on one side than on the other.

Both these are classic burr behavior.

Have you heard of an asymmetrical bevel whose apex is well shaped, exhibit that kind of behavior?

BTW, we already have the OP's permission to do with the thread what we will.

well u guys that are arguing can just have this thread..seeming how u took it over....im more confused now than ever

 

[IXLR8]

I'm enjoying this even more now. Let's argue more. Us Flips, like a good argument.

Now I understand why you have such a high post count.

BTW, we already have the OP's permission to do with the thread what we will.

Yeah good idea. Well, maybe I can learn something here.
I went to Bgentrys youtube channel. And well, seems I remember something to the effect of " Naaaa naaaaa SEEEEEEE Bgentry said it was a burr so it must be a burr."
So Anyway on Gentrys channel, he was like " Ok I have this dull kitchen knife." So he takes this knife and puts the knife on a belt grinder. Now I watched this for over 20 minutes.
That's right, 20 minutes of knife sharpening on a belt grinder. And we went through this : " Ok now I have a burr.......let me flip the knife and put a burr on the other side"
" Ok I have a burr" " Now let me flip this knife and put a burr back on the other side."
Freehanding a belt grinder, burring it here, burring it there........re-burring it........No stability, grinder is sitting on a cooky sheet, he's flipping the blade back and forth every which way.......no finish work.......then at the end of the video, he cuts a piece of paper with it and didn't seem all that impressed by the edge. As I have said before, I can make a piece of tin cut paper. The knife didn't appear to be all that sharp to me...........and he didn't try to push cut with it.

Now before gentry gets all pissed, I will say this. He's a well spoken gentleman and seems to be a hell of a nice guy. But it appeared he was trying to push the ken onion grinder.
My question here is why would one burr a knife twice on each side, with a belt grinder ( Unless there was no secondary bevel at all) and what would that secondary bevel look like on each side, had it been shown on camera?

My second question is, why would one need anything other than a tool that reduced human error, (which free handed bench grinding does not do) and aids in precision angles, followed by a high quality finishing stone, to make an edge?

Such as the one seen below.
This is my knife by the way and I put this edge on it.

 

[singularity35]

I guess you pick your battles.

 

[IXLR8]

Should I now make another vid about how an asymmetrical knife can shave up and down one arm?

Oh boy.........here we go.
I can just see it now.
" Well well well.......what have we here........my last video was called eating crow and I have titled this one , rubbing ixlr8s nose in poo"

 

[steeltowninwv]

ok thru all this...I think there are many knowledgeable people here that can get me on the right track....the knife cuts phone book paper nicely......can there be a burr there without being able to feel it?..can I see it under a magnifying glass?....please show me an example of what I would be looking for..

 

[Jason B.]

ok thru all this...I think there are many knowledgeable people here that can get me on the right track....the knife cuts phone book paper nicely......can there be a burr there without being able to feel it?..can I see it under a magnifying glass?....please show me an example of what I would be looking for..

Follow the link in my sig line (The Burr) and don't forget to watch the video at the end.

 

[IXLR8]

ok thru all this...I think there are many knowledgeable people here that can get me on the right track....the knife cuts phone book paper nicely......can there be a burr there without being able to feel it?..can I see it under a magnifying glass?....please show me an example of what I would be looking for..

Try to push cut the paper. If you have a wire edge, your knife won't do it.
And yes, there can be a micro burr. But I seriously doubt that's your problem.

 

[steeltowninwv]

im uploading a video right now....
looks like it my take some time..my be tomorrow before I will have it up here..

I think I can push cut phone book paper...sometimes I fail,,but a lot of that is technique I think......

 

[IXLR8]

I guess you pick your battles.

A thread was shut down because Jason went crying about being insulted after terming me " Ignorant" on this very thread.
I pick my battles, yes, but I do not cry about it later. Therein lies the difference between myself and the self proclaimed , God of sharpening.
So here we can see............what humility really is.

Thus it may not be a good idea to pick battles. But rather have reasonable debate.
I'm fairly sure Jason has learned his lesson, as have I.

 

[Karda]

A thread was shut down because Jason went crying about being insulted after terming me " Ignorant" on this very thread.
I pick my battles, yes, but I do not cry about it later. Therein lies the difference between myself and the self proclaimed , God of sharpening.
So here we can see............what humility really is.

Thus it may not be a good idea to pick battles. But rather have reasonable debate.
I'm fairly sure Jason has learned his lesson, as have I.

Jason did no such thing. I highly suggest that you provide more light and less heat in your discussions.

 

[IXLR8]

Jason did no such thing. I highly suggest that you provide more light and less heat in your discussions.

Oh he didn't?

People like you are the reason I must correct new sharpeners all the time and re-explain what sharpening is. For that, I thank your ignorance.

Now, I have just become a paying member. Just like him.
If this forum desires more money than the simple 10 dollar fee let me know.
I can accommodate you. And while I'm at it, I'd like to pay for a membership for singularity as well.
Believe me. I understand rules. I'm not paying for the privilege of breaking the rules. I have no intent to do so.
But I do intend to call BS when I see it. Think about it. I could be a useful entity here. I've been here for 6 years reading and posting very little
I've never had an argument here in over 6 years. Until now. And even then, its not hostile as much as it is proving a point.
Jason says hes the best knife sharpener of all time. I say, all things equal, I can put an edge on a knife as good or better, and im very willing to put my money where my mouth is.

And I can tell you this. It's not a burr.

 

[Karda]

Oh he didn't?



Now, I have just become a paying member. Just like him.
If this forum desires more money than the simple 10 dollar fee let me know.
I can accommodate you. And while I'm at it, I'd like to pay for a membership for singularity as well.
Believe me. I understand rules. I'm not paying for the privilege of breaking the rules. I have no intent to do so.
But I do intend to call BS when I see it. Think about it. I could be a useful entity here. I've been here for 6 years reading and posting very little
I've never had an argument here in over 6 years. Until now.

And I can tell you this. It's not a burr.

He didn't cry to anyone.
If your intention here is to be dismissive, disruptive or argumentative here, you've wasted your money.
You may be a constructive, productive member here or you can continue down this path and be removed. Your choice.
I would suggest you attempt to stick around. You may learn something.

 

[IXLR8]

I would suggest you attempt to stick around. You may learn something.

I already have.
Micron pastes......kangaroo leathers.............translucent stones, angles..........apex, flats.....scratch patterns....rolls.....secondary bevels......burrs ,,,,,wire edges..marketing schemes .............this that and the other. CHISELED GRINDS!
But Sir, I'm very willing to learn more.

you miss my point.

 

[Jason B.]

im uploading a video right now....
looks like it my take some time..my be tomorrow before I will have it up here..

I think I can push cut phone book paper...sometimes I fail,,but a lot of that is technique I think......

Cutting stuff tells you a knife can cut, looking at the edge shows you whats going on. Bright incandescent lighting while looking at the edge will easily expose burrs as a shiny line at the bevels apex. You can have a edge that splits hairs yet still has a burr, so IMO, slicing paper or whatever else is only useful to let you know two things 1) The knife cuts how you want it to. 2) how long it will cut before going dull.

 

[IXLR8]

Cutting stuff tells you a knife can cut, looking at the edge shows you whats going on. Bright incandescent lighting while looking at the edge will easily expose burrs as a shiny line at the bevels apex. You can have a edge that splits hairs yet still has a burr, so IMO, slicing paper or whatever else is only useful to let you know two things 1) The knife cuts how you want it to. 2) how long it will cut before going dull.

Unless he push cuts the paper , which will tell him if he has the now infamous burr.....
Which he has done.

 

[Jason B.]

Unless he push cuts the paper , which will tell him if he has the now infamous burr.....
Which he has done.

And how will it do this?