Am I Getting Scammed through a Buyer's PayPal Claim?

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A better way to approach this situation is to simply contact the seller first before going through PayPal and ask for refund. Less animosity all around.
 
gormonbozia said:
Thanks for RevDevil to send me the link to this thread so I could give my point of view of the situation. So here it is:

On PayPal dispute

PayPal buyer protection is a transparent and clean way to have a dispute by exchanging messages. It’s designed for that! That is why so many people use PP so confidently. Should I contacted Braincandle directly he would have the same concerns as he has now – that is a human nature to have a doubt. Now, Braincandle, if You were so willing to work it out with me, why did YOU ESCALATED IT TO A CLAIM!
Click to expand...

Are you saying/admitting you didn't contact him first about the knifes issues but he made the PP claim?? That makes no sense:confused:
 
gormonbozia said:
Thanks for RevDevil to send me the link to this thread so I could give my point of view of the situation. So here it is:

On PayPal dispute

PayPal buyer protection is a transparent and clean way to have a dispute by exchanging messages. It’s designed for that! That is why so many people use PP so confidently. Should I contacted Braincandle directly he would have the same concerns as he has now – that is a human nature to have a doubt. Now, Braincandle, if You were so willing to work it out with me, why did YOU ESCALATED IT TO A CLAIM!

On my reputation and attitude

In my 2 weeks bought 6 great knives here. See my posts – see the knives. One was not to my liking – I sold it myself on eBay with loss. That is my philosophy – my decision = my loss. Then comes the Strider with a frame lock that need both hands to get the knife closed, bummer. Does it have to be my problem?

On THE knife

This knife needs full disclosure – it’s a bad specimen of a Strider. If Braincandle lists in again with no remarks – that would be a fraud. These things should be made aware of. If the knife is sticky, late or not centered – SAY IT. Otherwise you just trade your bad luck for someone’s cash. How is that called on this forum?

On courage

Special one for Metal Made Fox: It is very brave to call people clowns over the internet. You should be proud of yourself and buy a memorable shoulder patch.

For the seller.
Be calm. Im returning THE knife for original net value. Definitely wait for the delivery. Videotape unboxing – that is a good advice for your peace of mind. Make sure it is your SNG CC CTS-XHP and make a refund. Many people done that before without making oh-my-god-what-should-I-do panic thread.
If at the end of the day you feel displeased with this transaction – go on and leave me a bad feedback. That is your right - feedback is designed exactly for that. And it is a two way process as you know.
These replies take time so with your permission, I will not be replying to future posts in this thread, since I believe you guys now can be just.
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I like these threads. It makes it easy to add people to my ignore list. You my friend have made it.
 
Gormonbozia,

It sounds like RevDevil gave you more courtesy than you gave the OP.... Just MHO


Congrats on making the lists

PAW
 
gormonbozia said:
On my reputation and attitude

In my 2 weeks bought 6 great knives here. See my posts – see the knives. One was not to my liking – I sold it myself on eBay with loss. That is my philosophy – my decision = my loss. Then comes the Strider with a frame lock that need both hands to get the knife closed, bummer. Does it have to be my problem?
Click to expand...

You're the one who made it into a problem.

gormonbozia said:
On THE knife

This knife needs full disclosure – it’s a bad specimen of a Strider. If Braincandle lists in again with no remarks – that would be a fraud. These things should be made aware of. If the knife is sticky, late or not centered – SAY IT. Otherwise you just trade your bad luck for someone’s cash. How is that called on this forum?
Click to expand...

If you knew these problems bother you so much why didn't you ask the seller beforehand if the knife had any of these issues? (which to be frank, aren't really much of any issues at all) You're just one of those extremely picky buyers that wants to spend the least possible and expect a knife to be brand new and perfect in every way. Hell, as a matter of fact I bet you're exaggerating the condition of the Strider you received. What you should have done was just try to resolve it with the OP first instead of immediately opening up a dispute. Everyone reading this thread will now put you on their "avoid" list.

gormonbozia said:
On courage

Special one for Metal Made Fox: It is very brave to call people clowns over the internet. You should be proud of yourself and buy a memorable shoulder patch.
Click to expand...

Cut the crap. If you were in front of me right now I'd say MUCH worse to you.
 
Yep, one to add to my ignore list. Go to the man first. Would have been easier than going the PP route, and the decent thing to do. A new knife is going to be somewhat sticky anyway.
 
We've got a runaway "Ignore List". Both men involved are new here. Is this the way we learn, one mistake and it's all over?

Welcome to Bladeforums!
 
Esav Benyamin said:
We've got a runaway "Ignore List". Both men involved are new here. Is this the way we learn, one mistake and it's all over?

Welcome to Bladeforums!
Click to expand...

Normally I would agree with you - most everyone deserves at least a second chance/benefit of the doubt.
For whatever reason, this seems a bit different to me; and apparently others as well. There is more here than just the way he handled the PP/return situation. The new knife is a shambles because the lock is "sticky"????
It seems that is all he is stating. Does it have other issues?
Perhaps the buyer will come back and elaborate a bit more than he has on why the knife is not acceptable to him, until then it's not worth the potential issues.
 
Mistakes were made on both sides! The knife indeed was not Purchased new rather LNIB from another forum member. See link with original sales thread the op purchased the knife from. The buyer thought he was buying what should be NIB, but i think he ultimately had buyers remorse so started a paypal claim.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...Bag-Brown-CC-CTS-XHP-amp-Green-Lego-CPM-S110V

The Buyer made a mistake by not asking the proper questions before committing to the deal. Like asking for pictures of the lock up and so forth. Also starting a paypal claim with out first contacting the seller is poor form and leaves a bad taste in peoples mouths.

What gets me is that in the paypal claim he stated that the knife had side to side play when the OP and the original owner both said it had solid lock up in both sales threads. Like i said maybe the OP misrepresented the knife, the buyer took it apart and the play started, or the knife is fine and he is having buyers remorse!
 
I agree I did make a mistake, I'm still new & learning. But I did not mislead, I was simply mistaken thinking I bought it BNIB, me being second owner makes it used no matter what. It was just a catch-and-release. A Strider that is not broken in yet, that like half of my frame-lock knives, needs to be opened & closed a LOT more before they're broken in.

I would never had started a thread if I had been approached by buyer instead of PP. 99% of the time I am approached by PP instead of the buyer, means I am about to get it in the shorts.

Not trying to start drama, just wanted to share my situation to get help from the more experienced members of this community.
 
gormonbozia said:
Thanks for RevDevil to send me the link to this thread so I could give my point of view of the situation. So here it is:

On PayPal dispute

PayPal buyer protection is a transparent and clean way to have a dispute by exchanging messages. It’s designed for that! That is why so many people use PP so confidently. Should I contacted Braincandle directly he would have the same concerns as he has now – that is a human nature to have a doubt. Now, Braincandle, if You were so willing to work it out with me, why did YOU ESCALATED IT TO A CLAIM!

On my reputation and attitude

In my 2 weeks bought 6 great knives here. See my posts – see the knives. One was not to my liking – I sold it myself on eBay with loss. That is my philosophy – my decision = my loss. Then comes the Strider with a frame lock that need both hands to get the knife closed, bummer. Does it have to be my problem?

On THE knife

This knife needs full disclosure – it’s a bad specimen of a Strider. If Braincandle lists in again with no remarks – that would be a fraud. These things should be made aware of. If the knife is sticky, late or not centered – SAY IT. Otherwise you just trade your bad luck for someone’s cash. How is that called on this forum?

On courage

Special one for Metal Made Fox: It is very brave to call people clowns over the internet. You should be proud of yourself and buy a memorable shoulder patch.

For the seller.
Be calm. Im returning THE knife for original net value. Definitely wait for the delivery. Videotape unboxing – that is a good advice for your peace of mind. Make sure it is your SNG CC CTS-XHP and make a refund. Many people done that before without making oh-my-god-what-should-I-do panic thread.
If at the end of the day you feel displeased with this transaction – go on and leave me a bad feedback. That is your right - feedback is designed exactly for that. And it is a two way process as you know.
These replies take time so with your permission, I will not be replying to future posts in this thread, since I believe you guys now can be just.
Click to expand...

You made an extremely poor decision, & you had a golden opportunity to deal with it, in the proper way.

In most cases, I would tend to agree: every new member here deserves a little latitude when making a mistake...your mistake however was a rather rude & offensive one to rectify.

Instead of coming on this thread and being contrite, & showing a degree of humility (like you should have), you chose to come on here & throw that opportunity in the trash can... By your own admission: you have only been on BladeForums for two weeks, for crying out loud!

Maybe you should try one last time, to apologize, & admit that you used very poor judgment in this instance...

But instead, you used this opportunity to threaten Braincandle with negative feedback, & insulted his/our intelligence by calling this a panic thread! This was not a panic thread! I would have dealt with your bizarre actions in the exact same manner! YOU HAVE ZERO FEEDBACK! YOU ARE THE PERSON WHO CONTACTED PAYPAL, INSTEAD OF TRYING TO RESOLVE THIS AMICABLY WITH THE SELLER! I mean, who does something like that? Being a new member here, you really got off to a rather pathetic start, & made a better effort to be a productive, supportive member of this wonderful forum.

Congratulations- you are now added to the infamous "Ignore List."
 
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http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...Bag-Brown-CC-CTS-XHP-amp-Green-Lego-CPM-S110V

What gets me is that in the paypal claim he stated that the knife had side to side play when the OP and the original owner both said it had solid lock up in both sales threads. Like i said maybe the OP misrepresented the knife, the buyer took it apart and the play started, or the knife is fine and he is having buyers remorse![/QUOTE]

BINGO! Two members (both the OP & the original owner), stated this Strider, HAD (past tense) solid lockup. What would you be willing to bet, that when Braincandlel get's his knife back, that this poor, abused, Strider, will now be suffering from severe side to side blade play? There is no way of proving this, but if this turns out to be the case, I would be willing to bet that Gormonbozia, bent this blade back & forth, until he achieved the unacceptable blade play result that he is now claiming.

After what he posted here, I wouldn't even consider giving this guy the benefit of the doubt regarding anything- period!

You have my 100% support Matt (Braincandle); I would be more than happy to deal with you in the future.
 
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Yikes people are really jumping all over the buyer here. Both parties in this transaction are pretty new to the community - plenty to learn in terms of etiquette. Hell I see more seasoned members commit similar or worse faux pas without the harassment.

On the one hand we have people relaying this kind of message: "This is a community. We are all friends here. Contact the buyer first and work out your problems. Kumbaya". And on the other hand they are relaying this message: "You are new and you went through PayPal first?!? (Despite the fact you might not know all of the etiquette or you just felt more comfortable using the transparent dispute services offered by PayPal) f*** off and welcome to my ignore list". Seems contradictory to me . . .

I have purchased items here on the forums before that were not as advertised - knives described as new in box or like new with clear signs of carry. Or knives I was specifically told prior to shipping had proper centering or lockup but arrived with significant blade play. While I was able to resolve those situations by contacting the buyer directly - and I will add that it was not always so easy. One seller that stands out in my mind told me to bugger off and take up the lockup problems with the maker until I sent him a video of the lock failure and made it clear I was not having any of that BS - the end result would have been the same going through PayPal.

Here is the description from the listing in question "First up is a strider brown CC SNG with a CTS-XHP stonewashed blade and titanium lockside - got it new off the exchange a month ago, it hasn't left my display case. Has factory edge, has never been sharpened. Super solid lockup. SOLD"

I get that people have different standards for their knives but if something is advertised as being new as it is here - I take it as implicit that centering, lockup, etc are all good to go. The buyer is not 100% clear but if he needs two hands to close the knife, as in he needs two hands to disengage the lockbar due to severe lock stick, I would expect that to be disclosed in the sale listing. Same thing for lockup, everyone has different expectations (users vs. collectors). "Super solid lockup" to me would mean absolutely no blade play. Do I personally think slight side-to-side play is worth returning the knife - no way. But a buyer expecting that from the knife as advertised is not necessarily unnatural. This is always tough to reconcile and I hope the buyer understands now that his requirements for the knife warrant additional confirmations from the seller to avoid problems in the future.

For me, no deal is done unless both parties are satisfied. Buyer forfeits the shipping cost, neither party is out of pocket for anything more than a couple weeks. Additional details from both sides would help here. I will try not to jump on either side without more information. We were all noobies here once, and I will not assume the buyer is setting up a scam just as I hoped no one would assume that about me when I first joined.
 
Ludwig said:
I get that people have different standards for their knives but if something is advertised as being new as it is here - I take it as implicit that centering, lockup, etc are all good to go. The buyer is not 100% clear but if he needs two hands to close the knife, as in he needs two hands to disengage the lockbar due to severe lock stick, I would expect that to be disclosed in the sale listing. Same thing for lockup, everyone has different expectations (users vs. collectors). "Super solid lockup" to me would mean absolutely no blade play. Do I personally think slight side-to-side play is worth returning the knife - no way. But a buyer expecting that from the knife as advertised is not necessarily unnatural. This is always tough to reconcile and I hope the buyer understands now that his requirements for the knife warrant additional confirmations from the seller to avoid problems in the future.
Click to expand...

This is what gets me. People sell in the exchange with no description, no answers to the frequently asked questions (centering, play, lock rock). and often no pictures. It sounds as though the seller mislead the buyer into thinking the knife was in great shape. It apparently wasn't!

Getting all butthurt that the buyer went through Paypal is ridiculous. At the end of the day, the exchange is simply another sales website. We use paypal as a tool for our sales and the buyer decided to use that tool to make his return. He SHOULD HAVE contacted the seller, but often with an expensive purchase it is important to immediately document any issues and make them official. By going through paypal first he guaranteed buyer protection for himself, and put liability on Paypal to make it right.
 
When you feel goods misrepresented, you open a "PayPal dispute". This provides buyer and the seller ample opportunity to communicate via messages and resolve any misunderstanding, all officially recorded. If this does not work, only then it needs to be escalated to "PayPal claim". Opening a paypal dispute is not different from sending the seller a message via bladeforums messaging system to work it out. Given both buyer and seller are new, they probably did not know our definition of "working it out". An honest seller and an honest buyer has no reason to be offended if someone disputes a transaction - it simply means things need to be sorted out.
 
:thumbup: for jfalkos and choombak touching on the PP situation more thoroughly than I did.

The way some people came out guns blazing at the buyer is far more antagonistic and inappropriate than opening a PP dispute.
 
I totally disagree. I would have been offended if the buyer filed a claim with paypal first instead of contacting me and asking for a refund. I could see it if the seller was unresponsive or being combative but the buyer should have contacted the seller first and given him a chance to make it right. I think that's how most people would approach the situation. It's the mature adult thing to do.
EDIT:The buyer is on my ignore list and will stay there.
 
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