Am I Getting Scammed through a Buyer's PayPal Claim?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Also, while you may not like my tone, Gormon; understand that it comes from having people do exactly what you did while trying to scam me on Ebay. I do not take well to scammers. Dudes would receive an item, then try to claim that they didn't receive it, or that it came damaged so they could get their money back. Back when Paypal first skewed wildly towards the Buyer side, that ish used to work. Nowadays, Paypal realizes that a lot of scammer scumbags are out there who try to do this, so they've made it harder to get away with it. Paypal no longer just assumes the seller is trying to rip the buyer off. That's why when opening a dispute, the tool straight out asks whether or not you tried to contact the seller first.

I'm not flat out saying you're a scammer, but honestly, your actions came across as fishy here, man.
 
Quiet said:
Gormonbozia, I've read through this whole thread, and it seems like you seem not to understand why you've gotten some of the reactions you got, so let me give you an idea. Let me clear it all up for you.

First of all, I've read all your posts in this thread. You mention multiple times that you got the knife and it "didn't meet your expectations", so because it was easier and convenient for you, you decided to just instantly open a Paypal dispute. Let me clue you in why that was such a bad move, and as a result now have a lot of people here (including me) who won't EVER do business with you going forward.

Filing a Paypal dispute is something that disgruntled people do. You stated the knife didn't meet your expectations, well why didn't you email Braincandle and give him a chance to even know that you were unsatisfied?? Why did you feel the need to basically call Braincandle untrustworthy, and a possible scammer? Because that's essentially what you do when you just open a Paypal dispute on someone on the other end of the transaction without even doing them the courtesy of contacting them.

So, don't come in here and act like you can't understand why people now think you're dishonorable. I sure do, because that's a dirtbag move to just open a Paypal dispute without even having bothered talking to the seller. I don't care if you bought a boat on wherever and got it sent over to wherever else. That is irrelevant. What is relevant here are four things:

1. You for whatever reason didn't like a product.
2. You didn't contact the seller to let him know that you were unsatisfied and give him a chance to present options by which you WOULD be satisfied.
3. The only contact the seller got was when Paypal sent Brain a message to the tune of "The buyer thinks you might be a scammer, so he wants his money back. Please respond."*
4. Brian thought YOU might be a scammer as a result of your actions, and thus came in here to post up, warning others against doing business with you.

So hey, congrats on being "partially" in charge of 50 people, and of buying boats, and of using a ton of exclamation points. The only think I personally am taking from this thread is that you're bad to do business with. Bladeforums doesn't need to change its rules, YOU need to learn how to be a stand-up part of the buying and selling process, guy.

Thanks and have a nice day. :rolleyes:





*Which is essentially what those messages say. I've been on the receiving end of those before, usually by buyers trying to scam me.
Click to expand...


We'll said. In addition you still have not fully explained what was wrong with the knife besides a sticky lock......imagine a new knife with a tight/sticky lock.
 
Checked again forum rules, and I must say that there is no particular rule regarding working out returns directly. Rather there is a warning to pay with fees to have protection. That combination was misleading, frankly, making me believe that after actual sales are done we are operating under a general law. Maybe moderators should amend the rules in that respect.
Click to expand...

There is no rule governing what should be universal common sense. We will certainly NOT add more rules because one person cannot handle a transaction without going to the most extreme measure as a first resort. You may not feel that you did anything wrong, and maybe you are correct. However, the way in which you conduct yourself speaks about you, as a person. Reacting in such an exaggerated manner will not give people a good impression of a potential transaction with you. If you cannot grasp that simple fact, then you might just be unable to understand the concept of "community". Hey, in the end, it is your reputation, you can tarnish it as much as you want. The responsibility for that and whatever may follow is all yours. For your own benefit, you may want to reread the posts above mine for some insight.

Here is a bit of help for you:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/entry.php/90-How-To-Trade-Knives-and-Gear-Successfully
While the topic relates to trades specifically, it can be successfully applied to any transaction buying, selling, or trading.
 
Quiet said:
Gormonbozia, I've read through this whole thread, and it seems like you seem not to understand why you've gotten some of the reactions you got, so let me give you an idea. Let me clear it all up for you.

First of all, I've read all your posts in this thread. You mention multiple times that you got the knife and it "didn't meet your expectations", so because it was easier and convenient for you, you decided to just instantly open a Paypal dispute. Let me clue you in why that was such a bad move, and as a result now have a lot of people here (including me) who won't EVER do business with you going forward.

Filing a Paypal dispute is something that disgruntled people do. You stated the knife didn't meet your expectations, well why didn't you email Braincandle and give him a chance to even know that you were unsatisfied?? Why did you feel the need to basically call Braincandle untrustworthy, and a possible scammer? Because that's essentially what you do when you just open a Paypal dispute on someone on the other end of the transaction without even doing them the courtesy of contacting them.

So, don't come in here and act like you can't understand why people now think you're dishonorable. I sure do, because that's a dirtbag move to just open a Paypal dispute without even having bothered talking to the seller. I don't care if you bought a boat on wherever and got it sent over to wherever else. That is irrelevant. What is relevant here are four things:

1. You for whatever reason didn't like a product.
2. You didn't contact the seller to let him know that you were unsatisfied and give him a chance to present options by which you WOULD be satisfied.
3. The only contact the seller got was when Paypal sent Brain a message to the tune of "The buyer thinks you might be a scammer, so he wants his money back. Please respond."*
4. Brian thought YOU might be a scammer as a result of your actions, and thus came in here to post up, warning others against doing business with you.

So hey, congrats on being "partially" in charge of 50 people, and of buying boats, and of using a ton of exclamation points. The only think I personally am taking from this thread is that you're bad to do business with. Bladeforums doesn't need to change its rules, YOU need to learn how to be a stand-up part of the buying and selling process, guy.

Thanks and have a nice day. :rolleyes:

*Which is essentially what those messages say. I've been on the receiving end of those before, usually by buyers trying to scam me.
Click to expand...

This entire post has got to be a joke. Only the truly insecure or untrustworthy people feel the need to assume that they are being called out as such because someone uses a service specifically offered by the payment method agreed upon by both parties. Here we have a buyer who is most familiar dealing with PP and Ebay and who has positive experiences dealing directly through these companies. With quite a bit of money on the line, he chooses to use what he is most comfortable with for his first issue buying on BF and without being hostile in any of his correspondence with the seller is automatically assumed to be a scammer because he is a newer international member with no recorded feedback.

Let's tackle this the same way you did:

1. For a knife advertised as NEW, he was dissatisfied with the lockup and blade play.
2. He in fact contacted the seller through PP letting him know he was both dissatisfied and wanted a refund less shipping costs to be satisfied.
3. This is all you applying your own view of what the PP dispute process means. Buyer assumes seller to be scammer - you done goofed. Seller assumes buyer to be scammer - you're right everyone gather your pitchforks.
4. See above.

When did this community start shutting people out so quickly without giving them a chance? And when did we become so hostile towards international members who have the same passion for this hobby as we do here in the States? I have dealt with plenty of international members with USA addresses for receiving packages to make sellers more comfortable. Never had a problem or assumed things were "shady". As for your second post, it is always great to generalize. No one takes well to scammers :rolleyes:. Just because some exist I do not assume every deal I go into the other party is out trying to screw me over.

Braincandle please keep us updated when you receive the returned knife. I for one would love to know if this knife was tinkered with, disassembled, or messed with in any way as so many people here are assuming. Once all the information is out there, I can make a fair decision on what is going on here.
 
I'll be sure to avoid dealing with Ludwig as well, he has been put on my ignore list. If you think it's alright to open up a dispute without trying to directly resolve it with the seller first, something is seriously wrong with you.
 
Knifein said:
I'll be sure to avoid dealing with Ludwig as well, he has been put on my ignore list. If you think it's alright to open up a dispute without trying to directly resolve it with the seller first, something is seriously wrong with you.
Click to expand...

Are you serious? Learn to read. He never said anything of the sort. He only tried to show that a new member used the PP system because he had good experiences with it, and wasn't familiar with our usual procedure.

Read the end of Ludwig's post. He isn't even assuming the buyer is right.

"No one takes well to scammers . Just because some exist I do not assume every deal I go into the other party is out trying to screw me over.

Braincandle please keep us updated when you receive the returned knife. I for one would love to know if this knife was tinkered with, disassembled, or messed with in any way as so many people here are assuming. Once all the information is out there, I can make a fair decision on what is going on here."
 
Ludwig said:
This entire post has got to be a joke. Only the truly insecure or untrustworthy people feel the need to assume that they are being called out as such because someone uses a service specifically offered by the payment method agreed upon by both parties. Here we have a buyer who is most familiar dealing with PP and Ebay and who has positive experiences dealing directly through these companies. With quite a bit of money on the line, he chooses to use what he is most comfortable with for his first issue buying on BF and without being hostile in any of his correspondence with the seller is automatically assumed to be a scammer because he is a newer international member with no recorded feedback.

Let's tackle this the same way you did:

1. For a knife advertised as NEW, he was dissatisfied with the lockup and blade play.
2. He in fact contacted the seller through PP letting him know he was both dissatisfied and wanted a refund less shipping costs to be satisfied.
3. This is all you applying your own view of what the PP dispute process means. Buyer assumes seller to be scammer - you done goofed. Seller assumes buyer to be scammer - you're right everyone gather your pitchforks.
4. See above.

When did this community start shutting people out so quickly without giving them a chance? And when did we become so hostile towards international members who have the same passion for this hobby as we do here in the States? I have dealt with plenty of international members with USA addresses for receiving packages to make sellers more comfortable. Never had a problem or assumed things were "shady". As for your second post, it is always great to generalize. No one takes well to scammers :rolleyes:. Just because some exist I do not assume every deal I go into the other party is out trying to screw me over.

Braincandle please keep us updated when you receive the returned knife. I for one would love to know if this knife was tinkered with, disassembled, or messed with in any way as so many people here are assuming. Once all the information is out there, I can make a fair decision on what is going on here.
Click to expand...

There is indeed a joke post, but it sure isn't mine. So, we should give this guy a chance? The same chance he gave Braincandle, right? By using a mitigation service instead of keeping this on a friendly and professional keel by contacting Brain directly?

Edited out the main part of my response, it's just negative noise.

That's cool, we can agree to disagree. I hope this thing gets resolved and both parties made whole, so everyone can move on. I don't hate, like, or even know either member. I will now bow out of this thread, and hope it concludes smoothly.
 
Last edited:
I've been following this for a few days, and feel that I have a view worth sharing.

As is commonly the case here in GB&U, there is a dispute and party lines are quickly drawn with people defending one side and disparaging the other with not much evidence provided by either side.

I can see how things in this case got escalated, likely beyond what either party expected or would like. Mistakes have been made by both parties, but that happens, most especially with newer members who might not be familiar with all the nuances of trading here in the exchange. Certainly, in a perfect world, this would have never happened, but I'm not perfect and I suspect I'm not in the minority. It's my gut reaction that this is simply a case of of a misunderstanding that got blown out of proportion, but I don't know anything at this point.

I'll reserve judgement and continue to follow this thread until I find out in what condition the returned item is received by the seller. At that point, I can make a decision on how I intend to deal with both involved parties based upon facts. Until that point, I really have nothing concrete upon which to form an opinion of either party.
But that's just me.

And to both involved parties:
Welcome to the exchange! Don't let one bad experience discourage you from this community, it's the best one out here.
 
Last edited:
gormonbozia said:
Oh boy, what a thread ;-)

It started all wrong with a very ambitious charge “Am I Getting Scammed through a Buyer's PayPal Claim?” and then got aggressively worse from that. Some much offence.

You said I had to apologize in the first place. Well I do now for two things:

I apologize for my rather formal manner of representing my thoughts. I do write many business e-mails and partially run a group of 50 employees, so I tend to be strict to the point. You must have taken it for arrogance. Well, you should not have.

I apologize also for being a sensitive person, and after being publicly accused of scamming my frustration must have leaked through my words a little. Can’t do much about that though – that’s the way I am - emotional. And formal (Oh my gosh!)


Still, at this point, I see absolutely no wrongdoing in me opening PayPal dispute. I have a very long history with eBay and PayPal, been in many situations good and bad and find PP disputes convenient and discreet. I even bought a fishing boat through classifieds and found some vendor online to pick it up for me in WI and paid him 12K through PP. PP is not such a friendly community like BF, of course, but it’s been there for me.

Would I have contacted Braincandle now directly, knowing how you guys treat returns in this community. Maybe, but I already know his reaction, so unlikely. In the other instance – hope there will be none, but yes, I guess would.


My initial disgust to excessive offence expressed in this thread has been lived through and swallowed - you must have noted a smily on my first sentence. It appears that I can survive THAT! It is probably for good that the most jumpy guys have put me on their ignore list. It is better not to deal with biased people. DapperDan – if you are reading this – you are cheating!!! ;-)))) Can’t understand what exactly You are going to ignore though? It’s not that I’m stalking You, do I?

I will not be putting any of my offenders to the ignore list since I find it simply ridiculous.
Animosity be your choice but there is a truth: getting offensive is like swallowing poison and expecting your foes to die ;-))

!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for everybody who has put a word for me though. I know such forums (I have few hobbies along with knives) do have a tight unanimous community and it’s a bit fairly surprising that some of you backed me up when I’m simply a read-and-buy member.
!!!!!!!!!


Checked again forum rules, and I must say that there is no particular rule regarding working out returns directly. Rather there is a warning to pay with fees to have protection. That combination was misleading, frankly, making me believe that after actual sales are done we are operating under a general law. Maybe moderators should amend the rules in that respect.

Found though a strict advise not to open a thread like this one before being absolutely sure ;-)) Can You believe THAT! Ok – Braincandle was seeking advice in the first place, but what happened then? You decided you wants my blood? You wanted to publicly mock me? And I’m being called a villain? What an example of poor judgment!

I did not threaten with negative feedback - I’m seriously considering leaving one: I paid my cash for something below my expectations, i agreed to swallow his and mine shipping cost and in return I get THIS. Indeed, I am having a very bad buying experience. Yes, sure - you'll fire back, but I guess truth have to be told.


Mentioned before that I will not be replying (these messages do take time and energy), but l had to, since the longer silence I keep the sheerer sick imaginations goes. What makes so many people come with silly suggestions me breaking the knife, disassembling or whatever? Trying to apply what you would do yourself? That convinces me I made a right decision with dispute in the first place. It makes everything simple: Braincandle gets the package delivered, makes a report of what exactly he received and make it available here for the public – short, extended or filmed. I would really like to see how hard his thumb gets pushed when he tries to open frame lock with one hand. Then we decide who owes a sincere apology.

And oh yeah, Braincandle – please do not confuse me or my e-mails with Russia. I take pride that I am Ukrainian and that is a VERY big difference.

My logistics is more complicated and time consuming then for usual BFU, but I manage to keep all requirements met – you got paid from US account, you shipped to US shipping address, no third party middleman in between – everything is then handled to me personally by a relative. As you probably guessed, I can bring a boat overseas and keep all parties involved happy. Like with those guys that shared their feedback on dealing with me.

I will check back here when package reaches you.
DK
Click to expand...

DK,

I literally read your post 4 times, & spent a fair amount of time doing some introspection, regarding this entire thread. I am trying my best to empathize with how this transaction has affected you, & how you have handled it.

Your first comment definitely rubbed me the wrong way. Your second post, gave me a much greater appreciation to how this thread has affected you. Likewise, I would be pretty bummed if another member started a negative thread in the GBU, about me. For somebody who is Ukrainian, I am extremely impressed with the intelligent way that you express yourself, & your use of the English language. I also believe, that you being from another Country, (with vastly different custom's & culture) that you deserve some latitude, & people reading this situation should cut you some slack (me included).

I honestly believe that Matt (Braincandle), had/has very noble intentions. He is a new member, & he was very concerned, & suspicious that something didn't seem right about this transaction. He is a very nice guy, & I feel that he had every right to feel the way he did. After the Paypal claim was filed, I think what he did was right. Starting this thread asking for opinions, definitely escalated your situation, but now I feel that both parties have a better understanding where things stand.

These GBU thread's that I follow & get involved in, are learning experiences for me too! I would like to extend to you an apology, & say welcome to BladeForums.

It is my hopes, that this transaction will have a positive outcome, & that both of you have learned a thing or two about BladeForums, & it's member's. There are some strong personalities. & big ego's here, & it is extremely rare that everyone comes to the same consensus. I also think that the Mod's have done an excellent job, sharing their experience and giving perspective to this thread.

Good luck to the both of you moving forward!
 
Last edited:
bonky said:
I've been following this for a few days, and feel that I have a view worth sharing.

As is commonly the case here in GB&U, there is a dispute and party lines are quickly drawn with people defending one side and disparaging the other with not much evidence provided by either side.

I can see how things in this case got escalated, likely beyond what either party expected or would like. Mistakes have been made by both parties, but that happens, most especially with newer members who might not be familiar with all the nuances of trading here in the exchange. Certainly, in a perfect world, this would have never happened, but I'm not perfect and I suspect I'm not in the minority. It's my gut reaction that this is simply a case of of a misunderstanding that got blown out of proportion, but I don't know anything at this point.

I'll reserve judgement and continue to follow this thread until I find out in what condition the returned item is received by the seller. At that point, I can make a decision on how I intend to deal with both involved parties based upon facts. Until that point, I really have nothing concrete upon which to form an opinion of either party.
But that's just me.

And to both involved parties:
Welcome to the exchange! Don't let one bad experience discourage you from this community, it's the best one out here.
Click to expand...

Bonky- I just posted a follow up to gormonbozia's post. I just read your post, & feel that it is one of the best in the thread. Sometimes, good intuition, or helpful information, still isn't enough, until BOTH parties, have clearly made their cases.

After reading through this entire thread a couple of times, I have come to the conclusion, that these are both decent member's who will learn from this experience...& I am hoping like hell, that there isn't one of those ugly GBU curve balls that comes out of left field.
 
KELAMA said:
DK,

I literally read your post 4 times, & spent a fair amount of time doing some introspection, regarding this entire thread. I am trying my best to empathize with how this transaction has affected you, & how you have handled it.

Your first comment definitely rubbed me the wrong way. Your second post, gave me a much greater appreciation to how this thread has affected you. Likewise, I would be pretty bummed if another member started a negative thread in the GBU, about me. For somebody who is Ukrainian, I am extremely impressed with the intelligent way that you express yourself, & your use of the English language. I also believe, that you being from another Country, (with vastly different custom's & culture) that you deserve some latitude, & people reading this situation should cut you some slack (me included).

I honestly believe that Matt (Braincandle), had/has very noble intentions. He is a new member, & he was very concerned, & suspicious that something didn't seem right about this transaction. He is a very nice guy, & I feel that he had every right to feel the way he did. After the Paypal claim was filed, I think what he did was right. Starting this thread asking for opinions, definitely escalated your situation, but now I feel that both parties have a better understanding where things stand.

These GBU thread's that I follow & get involved in, are learning experiences for me too! I would like to extend to you an apology, & say welcome to BladeForums.

It is my hopes, that this transaction will have a positive outcome, & that both of you have learned a thing or two about BladeForums, & it's member's. There are some strong personalities. & big ego's here, & it is extremely rare that everyone comes to the same consensus. I also think that the Mod's have done an excellent job, sharing their experience and giving perspective to this thread.

Good luck to the both of you moving forward!
Click to expand...

thank you. I appreciate that.
 
Buyer didn't do anything malicious or cause to label him a scammer. Just because he contacted paypal before seller makes him a scammer?
Mob mentality gets pretty wild from time to time.
 
reapinItUP said:
Buyer didn't do anything malicious or cause to label him a scammer. Just because he contacted paypal before seller makes him a scammer?
Mob mentality gets pretty wild from time to time.
Click to expand...

I do agree "Scammer" is a bit harsh....maybe "lack of common courtesy".
 
Strider arrived back in TX today after a long boat ride.

It is in the same shape as it was when it left.

My PayPal account is no longer held hostage, happy birthday Mr President, hallelujah Holy Christmas nuts.
 
Heck yeah, I am glad that it made it back to you unharmed. Even though it is such a terrible representation of a quality blade, right? Lol. In all seriousness, I am glad that you are getting it behind you.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top